Can you rate your experience: clinical psychologist vs. csw/msw

I believe there are, as JonB put it, incompetent practitioneres in every field. Be that as it may, I have a question.
Have you had the experience of working with a clinical psychologist and at another time with a csw, and can you describe the difference in experience, if there was.
Recently, I have met with four different therapists, all csw/msw's, (I'm looking for a t for my dd), and I have been so disappointed in the quality of their work.
Lest you accuse me of being overly "picky", I will give you an example or two.
One of them seems to believe, and strongly so, that OCD is a predominantly "religiously-Jewish" prevalence. (Insert face with two bulging eyes...) When I asked her to explain that, PLEASE, she said that in Judiasm things are black and white , and so the person afflicted with OCD has to whatever, I can't even remember the stupid explanation. And she continued by saying that in the world at large things are grey, so there is not much of an issue for someone with ocd. Whatever... It is so absolutely senseless I shall not even waste my breath getting angry at this stupidity. What she learned in college, I have yet to find out......
Another one claimed that the meds didn't work for my depression because I didn't WANT them to work...(You may have read about that in my previous post, entitled 'incompetent therapist')
Another one claimed that I was running away from my problems (wrote about it in previous post).

I am SICK AND TIRED of people who have nice certificates and diplomas hanging on their walls and they think they really are qualified to provide good help!

Of the three psychologists I have come across over the past few years, one was imho imcompetent, and the other two were simply good. I don't know whether their training was the factor or their brains. I have yet to find out.

So my question is borne out of curiousity: have you noticed any difference in quality of work bet. a csw/msw and a clinical psychologist?

OOH this is a rich one. I would make a formal complaint against the one with Jewish OCD. And,I could speak to you about statistics but not her quacky theory. I firmly believe that in any case I have been involved in a Psychologists beats the MSW hands down. Your state has a professional licensing division, call them, could be an interesting racial case, hmmm. Stick with Psychologists, and those whoi are "seasoned"

Ok, that is just outrageous. I would see about filing a complaint like wisewoman suggested. As to OCD being a predominately Jewish condition. How do you explain the thousands who suffer from it that are not Jewish. I know I have OCD but, I am not Jewish. Does that mean I don't really have it? LoL

You deserve a break. I hope it gets better for you. I know it will. Just don't let the idiots bring you down.

charlajustin - I think it doesn't mean you don't really have OCD, it means you just haven't realized yet that you're Jewish Maybe with more therapy....just kidding of course.

I've never worked with a CSW. I've seen a psychologist who was not bad, two psychiatrists (who did therapy too) - one was ok, one was great - and the best therapist I ever saw was completely unlicensed in any way. That one was really fantastic - he did work in an office with 3 PhDs so I figured he couldn't be a total quack or they'd know. I do think he had a Master's in psychology - but I don't think it was counseling psychology, if that even matters. I know he wasn't licensed with the state because I checked. I didn't care though, he was great and that was all that mattered to me.

Good luck in your search. Keep checking them out till you find someone you like - even if you have to go through a lot of duds.

A clinical psychologist has lots more training than a social worker and has a year "internship" also. There's a difference in their education. But I think everyone, educated or not has their own pet ideas :-) some more "out there" than the next. That's why one is supposed to shop around until they find someone they feel they can work with because research is showing that it's often the relationship between the therapist and the client that is more important than any particular education or theory learned in school. Therapists aren't "better" than other people, they just have a different education. I'm reminded of overhearing one of my doctors, a general practitioner, on the phone with another patient and how she joked she only got a "C" in bone setting/broken bones. It startled me and made me realize there are lots of skills that go into being a therapist and some people may be better or worse at some skills than others with or with some people and not others. It's not an exact science and I've never known education to equal intelligence and common sense. I've known too many people with 4.0 averages who have no common sense or ability to function in the "real" world.

Amen to that. The dumbest people I've ever met, I met in college. (Grad school is a different story -- you actually have to be smart to make it.)

I had an ER nurse tell me once, as she was inserting an IV, that she skipped class the day they learned how to put in IVs. Since I had just found out I had a baseball-size blood clot in my lung, I think she was trying to make me laugh, but it didn't work.

To the topic at hand -- I've had two clinical psychologists and several social workers. One psychologist was so-so, one is the best T I have ever had. The social workers were uniformly awful, treatment-wise, no matter how much I liked them as people.

Just my .02.

CB

I have a little trouble with social workers because I was going to be one at one point :-) and because one of my best friends is a State psychiatric social worker (for the last 30 years) and she wanted to be a clinical psychologist but it was too hard for her. I still laugh remembering when I got into an argument with my clinical psychologist therapist and then it occurred to me that I was paying her partially for her PhD education and that she just might know a tiny bit more than I do about psychology :-)

No I didn't notice a difference in work QUALITY. but did notice that each of my 19 past and present therapy professionals had/have their own way of doing things. For the most part I got along with each of them to various degrees but the fault was not theirs when the situations did not work.

The fault was in me and what I was ready for.
For some of them I wanted THEM to fix me not require me to fix me.
For others I just wasn't ready to talk and stay on track of what therapy was - talking about my problems and working to complete goals to make those problems lessen and be taken care off. with them I rather we talked about the upcoming fair, the therapists latest workshop the weather anything but me and my problems.
And with others I could not get myself past the fact that they hospitalized me. I knew they were just following the nation wide and state laws and the agencys protocals but that still didn't help in my fear that by seeing the same therapy professional I would probably end up hospitalized again.

And then there were those that I was ready to think about and work on things that would make my problems better and we did that with them.

The one thing I did find out was that each therapy professional based my therapy work and time with them based on what I brought into the therapy sessions either by what I physically brought along or what I brought into the sessions by way of what I talked about.

It took some time but I finally realzed that what makes a good therapy professional for me isn't the professional themselves - It's what I am willing to do to help myself get batter.

I found out that I am the one in control of whether or not things get better based on whether or not I talk and work on the goals, homework and so on

oh dear ... as if Jewish people are the ONLY ones who have a tendency to see things in black and white!!

I've lost count of the number of times my therapist has told me to 'look for the grey!' ... and I'm not Jewish!

I've seen one therapist who had a social work degree, and she and I didnt really click ... but I wouldnt say that she was incompetant or anything. She was alot freer with what we did in our sessions that other psychologists I have seen.

With the psychologists I have seen, there have been alot of assessments and 'homework' tasks to do. But with the social worker I saw, our sessions were more relaxed and just 'went with the flow'. The social worker and I used to sit on the carpetted floor for our sessions, and she was a hugger (... not really my cup of tea!), but none of the psychologists I saw ever offerred any alternatives from the 'traditional'.

This is very hard to generalise about though ... and it would have to have alot to do with which country you live in too I imagine.

I've received counseling from various persons . . . Ph.D. in psychology, Psy.D., MSW, art therapist, LPC, and a clergyman.

I think all that matters (determining who is a good counselor) is: (1) empathy (2) years of practice (3) connection with patient (4) not too busy to help and listen.

You can't read those things on a certificate.

I think referrals are a good thing. Have you asked around for recommendations on who will provide you outstanding care?

9874,

Without judgement, keep searching until you find a therapist that feels right to you ~and~ to your dd.

You might want to research types of therapy as well and ask when contacting the therapist what type he/she does.

I'm not sure the degree designation is crucial, but I prefer a clinical psychologist who has experience with my type of issue/problem/diagnosis. I have also had good MSW's. It can often be more about how we connect than what the degree is. Gender is another consideration; I prefer females... but I didn't know that until I had had several male therapists and decided to see what it would be like to have a female.

I hope you find someone soon that has you thinking "Oh, finally.. just what I wanted!"

ECHOES

The private psychologist who works with my son is by far superior to the social worker supplied by the school district. The social worker sees everything as a product of the home. If child is acting out .. then the child must have a terrible home life. While the psychologist specializes with children on the autism spectrum as well as LD children. The psychologist sees the whole child as well as the child's home & school environment. A child is acting out .. lets look at potential causes starting with investigating if there is a learning disability or developmental issue. I just don't think social workers are able to get the extra training that would allow them to see outside the box. That is what I have experienced.

Sorry, I can't compare apples to oranges right now.

Now in FL someone seeking licensing as a Clinical Psychologist not only has to have all the required courses educationally, but 2 years of supervision by another licensed doctor.

Regarding your DD, I think you should seek a specialist in trauma. If you can find someone with only an MSW but the education and experience behind them, ok. But social work is so different from clinical psychology imo.

Of the therapists that I have been to, I think one was an LCSW (the very first one, and he didn't get anywhere - told me that my problem was homesickness and that getting married would cure it). Most of the rest were psychologists (besides one who was a student in a psychology program, and she was clueless but I think mostly very inexperienced - I was probably her very first real client). I've had struggles with pretty much all of my therapists. It was the last two (both clinical psychologists) who started to understand what my real problems were. The first of them because he started with formal testing and found stuff that nobody else did before, and the last (current), I think because she is very perceptive and won't let me get away with anything. All have made mistakes in one way or another, I think.

I have worked with LCSWs professionally who I think are pretty good, and if I were to change therapists in the near future, the one I would go to is an LCSW/DSW (doctorate in social work) that I took a class from and I was impressed with her. You do also have to consider what they have experience and training in. Both my current T and the DSW I would consider have a lot of experience with trauma work. The DSW has more focus on childhood and how childhood events affect development on all levels (or at least that's what the workshop that I took from her was about, and she knew her stuff).

There are some significant differences in training. Social workers are trained to focus on the environment and on the individual within society and social problems. Their approach is to fix what is wrong in the environment, or at least how you cope with the environment. Psychologists are trained rather specifically to look for and treat psychopathology. Some focus there, while others do branch out and look at things from other perspectives too. And the same can be said of anyone - individual differences are often more significant than the differences between groups.

Another related profession to consider is counselors, who often are master's level, but also can have a Phd in counseling. That's what I'm getting my master's degree in. Counselors are trained in the wellness model, so the orientation is to promote growth and development, recognizing the potential in the individual. Counselors often are licensed as LPC (licensed professional counselor), but there are other variations in licensure too, or in terminology.

Psychologists have a minimum of four years of graduate training plus one year internship before they can be licensed. Master's level counselors and social workers have about two years of graduate school, a year of internship, and two more years after that of supervised work experience before they can be licensed. Master's level therapists who are not licensed but working under supervision are probably in that category, still working toward licensure. IMO, it works out to about the same amount of training before licensure, just that psychologists get more classroom training (with practicum as they go along), while the others have a longer period of experiential training (and our classroom work includes experiential stuff and practicum also).

You might also ask about theoretical orientation. Therapists from any background can be using any of the various theories and approaches that are out there. Since in an earlier thread you said you wanted unconditional acceptance, and that just knowing that your T accepts you as you are and believes what you say would enable you to change on your own, you might want to look for a T who uses Humanistic or Client-Centered counseling. Another term for the same thing is Rogerian, since that theory was originated by Carl Rogers. If you google any of those terms you will find lots of information. It's hard to find therapists who are purely Humanistic these days, as most are ecclectic, but you can specify that you would like a therapist who is as Rogerian as possible.

Good luck!
Rap

Rap,

The best therapist I ever saw was a MSW. She had a phenomenal personality, and was very sharp and knowledgeable. She had a huge success rate with a large number of clients.

EJ