[clinpsycstudent]

Something interesting that I was discussing in class that I would appreciate some opinions on! How appropriate would it be to ask a client for a hug at the end of therapy (i.e - termination) knowing fully that they have a strong erotic transference for you?
Would it ultimately just be another reinforcer for feelings?
Thanks for your ideas!

ClinicalPsycStudent

[nottrustin]

I don't think it would be a good idea. It would give the client mixed messages and possibly false hope that the relationship could be more in the futre

[Bill3]

I would think it inadvisable for a T to hug someone with strong erotic transference in any event, but it strikes me as particularly dangerous at the end of therapy: there is the significant risk of enflaming feelings that the T, apparently, will no longer have the opportunity to address.

[tealBumblebee]

I think that the T should act in the best interest of the client, so if they know there is a strong transference then they should be vigilant of the risk of what hugging them could do and then make the judgement on whether they will or will not.

[scorpiosis37]

First, I don't think a T should ever initiate or ask a client for touch/hugs. It's okay for a T to let a client know that they feel comfortable using touch in therapy-- that it's a tool that is on the table-- but I don't think it's acceptable for a T to say: "Can I have a hug?" That makes it about the T's needs, rather than the client's. The client should be the one to express the desire for appropriate touch-- and then the T should determine whether or not they think it would be therapeutic. In a T-client relationship where they hug every week, it's okay for the T to say "Do you want your hug this week?" if a client doesn't initiate, but I don't think the first request should ever come from the T.

The second problem I see with this is the client's erotic transference. While I think touch can be beneficial for many clients, I do not think it's appropriate when erotic transference is involved. Touch absolutely can reinforce the transference and give the client false hope that something could "happen." Moreover, the platonic hug can "feel" sexual to the client, even if that is not what the T intends. When clients are dealing with erotic transference, I think touch can be more damaging than helpful. I think it's up to the T to use healthy boundaries-- and talk therapy-- to help the client understand the reality of the relationship and work through the transference.

[clinpsycstudent]

Thanks for your responses! I agree - hence I bring this up, because it also happened to me - and I wasn't able to address my feelings again with her, it made it a lot more difficult during termination and for me to deal with my feelings on my own - especially because she suspected my feelings were being reinforced by her, but she didn't help me understand this.

I am going to be having a session with her to discuss this too - so it is interesting to hear some perspectives.

ClinicalPsycStudent

[OneWorld]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

don't think a T should ever initiate or ask a client for touch/hugs. ... That makes it about the T's needs, rather than the client's.

^^^This

A therapist shouldn't ask a client to do something to meet their own needs for closure (or whatever other reason they might have for asking)

[RTerroni]

Well when a previous Therapist of mine terminated things with me over transference issues the last thing I wanted to do was give her a hug at the termination session.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

First, I don't think a T should ever initiate or ask a client for touch/hugs. It's okay for a T to let a client know that they feel comfortable using touch in therapy-- that it's a tool that is on the table-- but I don't think it's acceptable for a T to say: "Can I have a hug?" That makes it about the T's needs, rather than the client's. The client should be the one to express the desire for appropriate touch-- and then the T should determine whether or not they think it would be therapeutic. In a T-client relationship where they hug every week, it's okay for the T to say "Do you want your hug this week?" if a client doesn't initiate, but I don't think the first request should ever come from the T.

The second problem I see with this is the client's erotic transference. While I think touch can be beneficial for many clients, I do not think it's appropriate when erotic transference is involved. Touch absolutely can reinforce the transference and give the client false hope that something could "happen." Moreover, the platonic hug can "feel" sexual to the client, even if that is not what the T intends. When clients are dealing with erotic transference, I think touch can be more damaging than helpful. I think it's up to the T to use healthy boundaries-- and talk therapy-- to help the client understand the reality of the relationship and work through the transference.

I agree with everything except that a T should never ask for a hug. She knew that I am not a hugger but wished I was...only people I ever hugged was hubby and children....one of my main reasons is that I would never be able to ask people for a hug because of boundary issues. When discussing very painful stuff at the end of a session she asked if she could give me a hug...I told her to please do...for a while she would always ask at the end of sessions...she no longer asks

[clinpsycstudent]

I know - it was very awkward, I got up to leave and she said, "Give me a hug" - it was very casual - but then she went on to say that I could contact her if I needed her, and that I should let her know how I go with clinical.
Then e-mails me a few weeks later saying it was innaproppriate to contact her - a lot of mixed messages!
For a client confused with her sexuality as it was - I don't think this was very "appropriate or fair", so it is interesting to discuss about - and how I would respond as a psychologist if I had a client was in my position at this time.
I certainly wouldn't tell this client they were beautiful too much (even if it was true and a lovely compliment!) and if they do not have self-esteem issues, I do not see how it could be therapeutically beneficial. Hence I most likely wouldn't hug them at termination either, nor would I say the client could see me again - then turn around and say that their feelings were being reinforced by seeing me, and I couldn't see them.

That is not therapeutically beneficial at all to the client, I find.

ClinicalPsycStudent

[pbutton]

I really don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer. I had some erotic transference with my last T. I had to terminate early due to clinic restructuring. He gave me a hug at the end of our last session. He asked me if he could give me a hug. It didn't cause me any damage.

I know this because I'm allowed to contact him any time I wish, which has amounted to probably 3 emails in the past 2 years.

It just really depends upon what the client is able to handle.

[clinpsycstudent]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

I agree with everything except that a T should never ask for a hug. She knew that I am not a hugger but wished I was...only people I ever hugged was hubby and children....one of my main reasons is that I would never be able to ask people for a hug because of boundary issues. When discussing very painful stuff at the end of a session she asked if she could give me a hug...I told her to please do...for a while she would always ask at the end of sessions...she no longer asks

I think that it is fine to ask if she can give you a hug - it allows the client to either accept or decline I think when it is more, "Give me a hug...." It comes off as overtly too friendly and it would have been more awkward if I said, "Naaah... I can't - you do remember how I feel about you?" Ha ha.

I am physically attracted to my T and he knows it. [I refuse to call it erotic transference because he is just physically attractive and I think labeling it something else just because he's my T is stupid.] He still hugs me, although we did discuss whether it felt too 'intimate' to me and he was open to discussing any feelings or problems it might bring up for me.

[Wysteria]

My T will not hug me if I don't ask.

He knows I have abuse history and sometimes by end of session I am just too overwhelmed. He always lets me ask and gives great appropriate hugs.. Sometimes I just hug his upper arm... He always lets me know that he's there for me. The ONLY time he will initiate touch is if I'm badly dissociated and he has asked me in advance if it was okay to just touch my knee or arm. Sometimes I know I shudder at the touch even when "away." I HAVE to know I am safe at all times there whether I'm really there or not.

I think it was highly inappropriate. Especially in the form of a command.
And in light of his erotic feelings for her made it even more so...

Sorry, but there are boundaries for a reason...protects us and them and keeps the feelings of trust and safety and authenticity in tact.

With all due respect, I feel that this forum is for people looking for advice from their peers and people we know we can trust and are going through the same situations. People that we know will trust our confidentiality....it's also in the forum rules...
If you have such questions, shouldn't they be addressed to your professors or advisors with professional and educational expertise?

Respectfully,
WB

[clinpsycstudent]

Originally Posted by Wysteria

My T will not hug me if I don't ask.

He knows I have abuse history and sometimes by end of session I am just too overwhelmed. He always lets me ask and gives great appropriate hugs.. Sometimes I just hug his upper arm... He always lets me know that he's there for me. The ONLY time he will initiate touch is if I'm badly dissociated and he has asked me in advance if it was okay to just touch my knee or arm. Sometimes I know I shudder at the touch even when "away." I HAVE to know I am safe at all times there whether I'm really there or not.

I think it was highly inappropriate. Especially in the form of a command.
And in light of his erotic feelings for her made it even more so...

Sorry, but there are boundaries for a reason...protects us and them and keeps the feelings of trust and safety and authenticity in tact.

With all due respect, I feel that this forum is for people looking for advice from their peers and people we know we can trust and are going through the same situations. People that we know will trust our confidentiality....it's also in the forum rules...
If you have such questions, shouldn't they be addressed to your professors or advisors with professional and educational expertise?

Respectfully,
WB

Hi!
Thanks for your reply - I appreciate it! Oh - As a client to therapy too, I have had some great help and support here It was only something we were having a discussion over in relation that to my experience.
But anyway - it is certainly something I will be also discussing with advisors. I was just interested if anyone else wanted to share, or could also relate to my experiences with boundaries.

Thank you again,
ClinPsycStudent

[stopdog]

Why on earth would a therapist ask the client to hug them? Sounds not good to me.

[IndestructibleGirl]

I don't think it's wrong but I don't think it's tactful. It sounds like the therapist putting their needs first - the need to have a warm fuzzy feeling that the client and therapist are parting on affectionate terms.

[clinpsycstudent]

Perhaps somewhat like receiving resassurance from their client in the termination period? I agree - it does sound like the therapist putting his/her needs first before the client. Eeek!

[rothfan6]

I think a t should really understand and know their client before offering a hug if at all. I think it really should be left up to the client to ask for what they want and the t can say yes or no and explain their boundaries. A t saying "Give me a hug" would be a huge trigger for me.

[clinpsycstudent]

Originally Posted by rothfan6

I think a t should really understand and know their client before offering a hug if at all. I think it really should be left up to the client to ask for what they want and the t can say yes or no and explain their boundaries. A t saying "Give me a hug" would be a huge trigger for me.

Very true indeed - it was a major trigger for me! And I am still working through it.... but it has been a learning experience, to say the least!

[AmazingGrace7]

Ok. Is this the (former) T who encouraged you to email her, then shared the information with your psychiatrist who then in turn, told you that if you emailed former T again you would be reported to the school's advisory board or something like that?

If so, I am not surprised.

No, this is not okay behavior. It is NEVER okay for a T to command you to hug them. Your therapy is about YOU, your needs…..not theirs. It is confusing and crazy-making.

Forgive me because I have a T "hugging" experience. I was having some feelings for my T. I wouldn't call it "erotic" transference, just transference. He knew it and we very openly discussed it in a mutually respectful way. One day, I was sharing some PC stories and the conversation of hugging came up and he told me he had a "no hugging/no touch" policy with his clients. I understood the boundary and never had requested a hug anyway. End of story.

A few months later, we had a rupture. I get ready to leave and as I go to grab the door knob. He grabs my shoulder to hug me. I asked him to, " Please STOP". It was HIS rule, not mine. Honestly, I really needed a hug in the moment and it may have reflected his true feeling at the time, however, it was inconsistent with his earlier comment/boundary and for some reason, it felt like his earlier words were disingenuous.

I definitely disagree with most statements that this is "right"; that is "wrong", when really, clients are individuals, so therapeutic decisions should largely be individualized.

Both my current and former therapists knew I had certain feelings for them, and they both initiated hugs in both cases. It always was and has been beneficial to our therapy.

I don't have much of an opinion about a hug only on the last session, except perhaps anything said/done on the last session might not have the opportunity to be discussed by the client with that therapist. But why not ask for a few more sessions-even if by phone-if that was the case?

About sexual feelings for T and hugs in general --
I'd be mortified if my therapists didn't hug me just because I had sexual feelings for them (and was honest about it). It would probably be damaging to our relationship.

...should have mentioned in my last post that a hug request by a therapist doesn't mean that it is about the Ts needs (e.g., it seems like you could use a hug). But i can certainly see how some clients would think that.

[AmazingGrace7]

Originally Posted by skies

...should have mentioned in my last post that a hug request by a therapist doesn't mean that it is about the Ts needs (e.g., it seems like you could use a hug). But i can certainly see how some clients would think that.

I think it depends on the existing relationship and how the request is made?

In the OP's comments, she describes her T as saying " Give me a hug". That's CLEARLY a command and demonstrates more of a need on the T's part than your example.

In my post, I think my T's very genuine response of reaching out to me, after a rupture, demonstrated his care and concern about me and our therapy work together. Under many circumstances, i would consider his response a healthy one. I didn't think so that day because it was inconsistent with his previous statement.

[clinpsycstudent]

Thanks for all your comments! I agree - it's not something that could be "right or wrong" per say - but it could shift towards one or the other depending on the nature of the client/therapist relationship.
For one relationship, the same gesture could be healthy and normal, but for the other quite unhealthy and not in the clients best interest.
For me, it wasn't: "Is it OK I hug you farewell since we are saying goodbye?" It was me going to walk out the door and then, "Come here, lets have a hug" ..... such a simple affectionate gesture - but after reading that she felt she was reinforcing my feelings just by seeing me afterwards made me feel she could have thought about her words and actions a bit more... if this makes sense?
Wow! It's been a journey - but I hope my experiences will help others