She's Moonlighting!!?!!

I would imagine that if you reach out to her, outside of the system of the first company, at her website for the other company - she might be able to take you on there. But she would not be able to say that in any kind of monitored communication with the first site.

For my company, we have transcripts of emails that are sent and notes that are left about calls that are made. I don't have time to read them all, but I spot check. I do, however, run searches for key phrases on all of the employees to monitor for various things. I imagine they have software that does that too. For example, they may run a script that searches all communication for the mention of the names of any other services, phrases like 'you can reach me at' or other similar phrases. Without that, it's highly likely that they'd just become a client finding service for therapists to run their own private online practices.

Thanks so much. The site I work functions similarly. Right now, I'm too afraid she'd reject me if I tried that. I would be so upset if that happened.

If it was me, I'd try it first before talking to her about it through your first service. If you talk to her about it through service #1, she is required by service #1 to say no. After she has said no, it would be unethical for her to then allow you to be her client through the other service.

However, if you go to the other one, she at least as the option of saying yes. My guess is that, by talking about it through site #1, you will eliminate any possibility of her being able to say it's okay.

it's certainly understandable why you are so upset. no one wants to pay 8 times more for the same thing they could get elsewhere. you have mentioned the cost of therapy in a number of your posts, and i think maybe the real issue is you are just paying too much for something you can't really afford. i totally understand you are attached to your T but i really think i'd find an in-person T you can afford. do you typically have trouble letting go of unhealthy things or situations? i think while your therapy has obviously helped you in a way it is sabotaging you and i think that dynamic might be good to look at. is this maybe about fearing change or something else? or, about living beyond your means? i don't know, just some things to consider. i really think you could find an in-person T you could do just as good work with. yes, it'd be a hassle and painful to change Ts but think of all the money you'd save. it's good to be flexible in life.

Yeah, the therapy has been too expensive, but I've cut back to make it more affordable. It's still a stretch, but worthwhile. I do have trouble living within my means, but no, I don't think it's likely I'd find another therapist I'd have such a great relationship with or that offers the unique benefits of this one and in this format. (I should add, some of the trouble living within my means was my husband being laid off two years, having heart failure, and huge medical bills, so I mean... it's partly my issue and partly circumstantial.) I could replace some of the elements, but not sure about all of them. She's filling the 'good enough mother' role right now, and that's not an everyday occurrence in therapy. Of course we also have a lot of history, and starting over would indeed be difficult. I don't think I fear change in that way: I think I know a wonderful thing when I find one and value it highly. No, I don't have trouble letting go of unhealthy situations, that I can say, is one of my strengths.

I agree with you. I read the terms of service, and think I might be able to see her elsewhere since she didnt' solicit me, but I've found that service doesn't offer phone calls, so... I wouldn't want to do it unless I could use both services, sigh, or another service altogether, which does make it seem likely to be a problem. Urgh. I don't think she'd agree though, because it's too complicated for her to reconcile.

Also, she'd only have to pay $30 a month to see me on that site, so instead of paying 50% for chat sessions, it'd be like.... 8% sigh.

Close your expensive account and sign on to the cheap service under an assumed name.

Sigh, I want to, but fear she'd reject me. We had something similar once before.

Part of me does just want to quit. The money is an issue.

But this woman is my good enough mother. I want her in my life. And she's not taking advantage of me, she's charging a perfectly reasonable, lowish rate given her experience.

Also, she's said that she would see me for less or free if I needed that. She is committed to me and not trying to profiteer. She really is ethical, if imperfect. Sigh.

I just am under a lot of stress and... it's hard to get out from under it. It was really disturbing to see a cheaper option, and think it won't work for me. So hard. URGH!

When can you speak to her about all of this?

I started writing her but am feeling really upset and am late for taking my husband out to dinner, sigh. I have to remember I have an important life outside of freaking out about how expensive therapy is now that I know she's working somewhere it wouldn't have to be so much, sigh.

The only way I can see to try it is contact her on the other site, ask to work with her there and what her rate is. Even if it's the same rate, at least she'd make way more, but I figure she'll say no, and if I did that, I'd have to keep using the current site for phone calls, I don't think she could possibly be okay with that.

Urgh.

From a business perspective, I believe One World to be completely correct. I think it would NOT be in your best interest to discuss seeing her on the other site at all. But contact her through site B and say that you will be retaining her services as soon as possible.

You have not mentioned how many weeks left you have on your current contract with site A. I think you have two choices, either find a legal way to cancel the contract with site A...or ride out the rest of the contract as agreed upon getting the therapy with your T, and then promptly contact her on site B. Personally I would use another moniker and even email address just to be sure. You will put yourself and your T in jeopardy to discuss it with her in any way on site A. Those emails are monitored and "taking clients with her or contacting them directly" are contractually illegal for your T. That type of non-compete is very normal even among regular docs and other professionals. She would probably have to pay a hefty fine probably for breaking her contractual obligations and the non-compete with it..

Please consider very carefully how you proceed. I believe One World has offered very good advice. Perhaps you can recoup a bit of your losses as a new customer at site B. Please think long term and make the right choices to get what you really want which is a relationship with your T.

Your T is actually doing what you suggested, which is to work for another service that costs less and will allow her to earn what she deserves. You said in your original post that you had mentioned the idea to her some time ago... She is bound and gagged contractually from talking to you or having you follow
her... But I see no reason as a customer, if after you meet the contractual obligations for a package of services you agreed to, that you cannot choose to do business elsewhere.

Just think a little more before you put things in jeopardy...I think you will both be satisfied in the end..

Kindly,
WB

Thanks for the sound advice. I agree she's done something smart, I just don't want to be left out of it, lol, when it seems so beneficial to me too.

I don't have a contract with the other site at all, my cell phone example was just a convenient one.

The only obligation, as I understand it, is she can't give me her contact info, and she never has. I found this site on my own.

I just think she'll be adverse to me switching, and not having phone calls there is problematic, sigh. I'm gonna do dinner and mull it over a bit.

I could just contact her through the other site and ask to do chat sessions there, but I'm going to feel AWFUL if she says no. Sigh.

But even if she said no and you felt awful, do you think you could survive? Is it worth the risk?

Probably. I feel upset, but asking her probably wouldn't change our relationship much, I don't think........?

She'd understand I was trying to be more practical and do better by both of us as far as fees, and if she didn't feel able to say yes, it wouldn't be personal, but... having the option to spend less and having her tell me no I can't spend less, I have to pay more would not feel good.

And disagreeing with her about what we though was ethical wouldn't feel good either, sigh.

It's maybe worth the risk, I'll think about that, it probably is, I'm just upset.

I checked, it doesn't.

It may well be that you can "see" her on the less expensive sight. You may just have to quit the more expensive site & make arrangements to see her on the less expensive one.

She probably has a contract with the more expensive site that prohibits her from doing anything that would result in you moving to the less expensive sight. But you can do whatever you want.

So she couldn't tell you about the less expensive sight. But since you found it on your own, I would think you can take it upon yourself to move to the less expensive sight. I don't know this for certain. But I would guess that the situation is something like that.

It is worrying when despite real financial hardship, that we can become so dependent on someone, that we continue to remain in that relationship, paying them.

To me there are 2 options:

1. Continuing to pay beyond your means
2. Quitting and finding a more affordable therapy (and therapist)

The 3rd option of paying your T on a different site does not seem to be one that is available to you.

Hope you are able to share with T how upset you are, l would be really hurt about this too. l recently discovered my own T's sliding scale went way below what was offered to me.

Wait...how can she offer to see you for free? Wouldn't her site balk at that? Their fifty percent cut would be ZERO dollars if she saw you for free. How is THAT possible? If it IS possible it doesn't sound like this site really has that much power...

She has said if I wasn't able to pay (due to some unforseen financial catastrophe) that she would make it work out, she was committed to me. The lowest minimum rate on the site (I just checked) is $30 per hour, so, I suppose I'd either pay that or if I couldn't, I'd have to trust her to make an arrangement with me.

The reality is, I would never dream of asking her for a reduction or free sessions unless I was truly in dire straits, and I don't anticipate that happening. But it helps me know she cares.

if you can work it out to switch to the other site without her compromising her ethics that would be great. i do hope you can figure something out with her. being in debt is such a huge life stressor that i don't tend to think it is a good idea if you can at all avoid it. admittedly, your situation does sound tough with your H's circumstances. if you can't get a lower rate with T, and you live in an area with a decent amount of Ts, it can't hurt to interview a few just to check out your options. you might be surprised to find another good one you can afford. sometimes we just want to have it all--and right now at that--and go into debt to get it, but that isn't terribly sustainable and just results in creating other problems.

I feel like I don't "want it all" - I want MY therapist. And yes, it'd be great if she were more affordable, but, she's my therapist, my good enough mother figure, my stalwart supporter, and uniquely connected to and knowledgeable about me and I don't want to lose her support nor the flexibility of doing therapy online or all her availability. My life is stressful right now, and she helps with that. But yes, it is a double bind that one of my greatest supports, her, also contributes to my financial stress, sigh. A puzzle I keep trying to solve better. I have been cutting expenses and hours as I can, so... it's gotten a bit better... but not balanced yet.

Anyhow, I just found this and it suggests to me she would definitely not be able to see me elsewhere and still maintain good standing on our current site:

"All contact between experts, consumers and any other users who are introduced through the XXXX platform must be conducted only through the XXXXXX platform. Exchange of personal contact information is strictly prohibited. Any exchange of contact information or communication outside of the XXXXXXX platform, whether via personal email, phone, in person or any other means, is strictly prohibited and is a violation of this Agreement. In the event XXXXXX suspects or determines any such unauthorized contact, XXXXX reserves the right to withhold payments, levy fines, and/or suspend or terminate service in its sole and absolute discretion;"

I should clarify: right now, with my new budget and measures I've taken to cut back and streamline my expenses, I am not spending more than I make every month, however, I'm just not able to make a big dent in my debt, not as much as I'd like. If I wasn't in therapy, I could pay my bills down faster, but... therapy is so valuable to me.

leah, if you have to currently go into debt to pay for therapy then you really aren't able to pay, and it was because of pretty serious unforeseen circumstances with your H, so i think you are totally justified to ask for a reduction in fee. i know you don't want to but it sounds like you are shouldering more than you need to and your T is willing to accommodate you as many Ts do. it can be tough to ask for what we need but it doesn't sound like your T is going to refuse.

eta: sorry, i keep cross posting and not seeing your previous posts.