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  #76  
Old Sep 13, 2014, 05:48 AM
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Favorite Jeans Favorite Jeans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
The bigger point for me, is that the therapists keep blaming my mother/parents rather than considering that it was probably my rejection of my mother that caused some of the difficulties.
And I wondered, after the thread about bad babies (paraphrase) if others had discussed being bad babies either causing the parent to then reject the baby or if the bad baby was due to rejecting the parent.
Why are you still so invested in protecting your mother?
Thanks for this!
pbutton, unaluna

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  #77  
Old Sep 13, 2014, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by archipelago View Post
I kinda see what Partless points out--that the thread is a big mixture of things and there really isn't a clear-cut answer.

I focused on attachment. Either someone had mentioned it or it seemed to be relevant. Just to add one note of exquisitely conducted research is the work of Beatrice Beebe (and colleagues). She has done micro-analysis of infant-mother dyads from early on to later and been able to accurately predict things. And it is not all that clear-cut either. Sometimes what is called "looming" (moving forward, being very attentive) which might seem to be a responsive type of thing actually has negative effects and longer term consequences. You really have to read the actual research to find out what behaviors of all sorts of types are considered and what is tolerated (regardless of temperament) and what produces confusion or negative response.

As far as the sense of an "attachment disorder," well, not really. Yes, attachment is very real and has tons of research now to back it up, but no, in the clinical language there are very few clinical disorders that are solely attachment based. In fact, really only 2 or 3. One is separation anxiety which has some sort of relation to attachment though is really thought of as anxiety primarily. The main two are really childhood disorders, both related and just the opposite of each other, with almost the exact same causes, which are listed as extremes of neglect, instability of caregiving, etc. Not necessarily direct abuse that would lead to a more trauma based type of thing, but these disorder are listed now in the trauma related disorders.

One is what hamster mentioned: reactive attachment disorder, which is the complete lack of seeking comfort, even rejecting attempts at comfort, seeming to be unmoved or uninterested in any kind of attachment based soothing. It is actually considered quite an extreme disorder. The list of what has to happen to cause it is very awful. It just doesn't sound like that is really in place for the OP or even for most if not all of the responders.

The other is the opposite--a disinhibited social inappropriate way of attaching. The exact same very disturbing circumstances lead to this behavior. And personally I can see some of the personality disorders coming from this more primary problem that may be overlooked when people are children.

What is weird is that all the traumatic things acknowledged for both of these attachment based disorders are NOT acknowledged in the current diagnosis of PTSD, even though they are in the same category and literally a few pages away from each other.

Clearly there is a problem with the overall understanding of the role of attachment and also early experiences.
My therapist says lack of attachment IS trauma. Its a simple enough statement but it made my head hurt.
Thanks for this!
unaluna, vonmoxie
  #78  
Old Sep 13, 2014, 06:06 AM
blur blur is offline
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stop, we don't know the details of your childhood, but it is quite common for people to minimize what went on in their families. take a look at the abuse of children power & control wheel below. i wouldn't be surprised if you said you experienced more than a few of these behaviors. note especially the ones listed in the outer black ring. these are all considered various forms of abuse by mental health professionals today although this list is hardly exhaustive.
Differences between infants who reject and infants who are rejected
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vonmoxie
  #79  
Old Sep 13, 2014, 06:14 AM
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StressedMess StressedMess is offline
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Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans View Post
Why are you still so invested in protecting your mother?

For myself it is a knee-jerk reaction. The parents who brought me into this world were not perfect by any means. They were both alcoholics during my early years, and my mother had a severe mental illness. My father was retired military, a house painter, and came from a very abusive background.

I'm a firm believer in doing what I'm told, protecting our family's secrets, and putting on a facade to the outside world. Training ingrained during childhood and reinforced during adulthood.

It takes a long time to undo all that brainwashing. My parents are both deceased, so there's also an element of not attacking those who cannot defend themselves involved. And a huge sense of shame, at the way I was raised and subsequently the way I behave now, that I never "pulled up my big girl panties" and carried on with living despite the poor preparation I was given.

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  #80  
Old Sep 13, 2014, 06:17 AM
Anonymous37917
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Wow, blur. Wow. Your wheel is freaking me out a little. Every one of those things happened to me, except for the choking. Every. one.
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  #81  
Old Sep 13, 2014, 07:24 AM
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Lauliza Lauliza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I don't think I have a negative reaction to the therapists I see. And certainly not because they are female. I did have an extremely negative reaction to the two male ones I interviewed. I find the profession squirrelly as a whole.
I loved my mother and I completely adored my grandmother.
I was not an easy infant by their descriptions. I walked very early, I would fling myself out of my crib if left there when I did not want to be before I could walk, I could disengage the straps to the stroller and would do so and escape, I did not often go to them if I hurt myself and so forth.
This is perfectly normal behavior for lots of children. But being closer to your age group, my parents were of the same generation and also have spoken about this type of behavior as "difficult". At the time spirited, active and independent kids were considered difficult and parents used corporal punishment to keep them in line. My parents weren't abusive either but when they'd talk about my older brothers behaviors (both are about 10 - 13 years older than me) and how they handled them, it's a little shocking. My mom still blames us as babies for how they responded to us. We were all difficult either by being overly demanding or under demanding (or rejecting) babies. To this day she is very defensive and took our infant bahavior very personally. We had countless debates regarding holding and giving newborns too much attention. Everything she tried to teach me went against my basic instinct as a parent. Identifying the infants needs and responding to them is a parent's job. It's very apparent to me now how her perceptions and reactions to us definitely shaped the way we attached or failed to attach. Not to the extremes of a child with reactive attachment disorder by any means. But still, enough to contribute to the development of dysfunctional personality traits in one way or another.

Last edited by Lauliza; Sep 13, 2014 at 07:39 AM.
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archipelago, Favorite Jeans
  #82  
Old Sep 14, 2014, 07:39 AM
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healingme4me healingme4me is offline
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My oldest had quite the temper. Even my seasoned sister in law, in visiting in the hospital as the screaming, borderline colick began, said, wow, temper, temper, must be the Italian in him. Two DAYS old. Was he rejecting of me or anyone? No.
Is he now a child that borders on confidence and low esteem? Yes.
Infants rejecting getting their needs met, being the little dependent creatures they are...hogwash
  #83  
Old Sep 14, 2014, 11:04 AM
Anonymous327328
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People mention the research, and i often do that too, but in research there are often outliers. Maybe Stopdog's situation represents an outlier?

Just a thought.
  #84  
Old Sep 14, 2014, 12:01 PM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skies_ View Post
People mention the research, and i often do that too, but in research there are often outliers. Maybe Stopdog's situation represents an outlier?

Just a thought.
I know my situation does. My mother was an out and out liar ba-da-bum! I think its too late for them to show up at my door again today now, so i guess my asking ie texting my cousin not to chauffeur them over here again worked. Maybe i can begin living my life again.
Thanks for this!
healingme4me
  #85  
Old Sep 14, 2014, 01:43 PM
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Restin Restin is offline
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Early bonding is so important and has a short time window. I'm sure you've heard that some mothers have post partum depression. The baby fails to bond and turns cold and angry. I went through this, so know it's true. My mother died when I was a baby and a series of uncaring relatives took over. In therapy, I have needed to regress to a very early stage and learn how to feel love, bonding, and intimacy. No way could I make myself feel these by criticizing myself and just trying.
It's difficult and scary but I'm learning through the Transference relation with my T. I started with the same coldness toward T and also a guilt for wishing her dead. But I went through those stages with her sympathy. These are difficult feelings to go through, but they repair the damage done in early life.
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unaluna
Thanks for this!
healingme4me, unaluna
  #86  
Old Sep 14, 2014, 04:41 PM
Anonymous327328
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Originally Posted by hankster View Post
I know my situation does. My mother was an out and out liar ba-da-bum! I think its too late for them to show up at my door again today now, so i guess my asking ie texting my cousin not to chauffeur them over here again worked. Maybe i can begin living my life again.
For next time, get a white noise machine and put it outside of your door...then put duct tape on the peephole in case it's a reverse one too. Maybe even a sign: "Beware of Dog". Try that
Thanks for this!
unaluna
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