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In another thread there was a discussion about forgiving abusive parents and later, whether their abuse was intentional (which presumably would influence whether they should be forgiven or not).

I looked up some writings on what it means to forgive, and big surprise, there is no agreed-upon definition. Many psychological definitions seem to emphasize that forgiving is not the same as forgetting, nor coming to see what the offender did to us as acceptable or okay. Here's one definition:

"In forgiving, a person overcomes resentment toward an offender, but does not
deny him/herself the moral right to such resentment. The forgiver tries to have a
new stance of benevolence, compassion, and even love toward the offender,
even though the latter has no moral right to such a merciful response." (M. Subkoviak)

This is quite an interesting way of looking at "forgiving." Essentially it makes forgiving all about victim's stance, making the offense completely irrelevant. It does not matter if it was big or small, intentional or not, or how long it went on. Forgiveness here seems to operate on a whole other ground. You are not diminishing the pain nor the offense in order to make room for forgiveness. It's a whole different game.

Forgiveness, from this view, is not about denying oneself or the past, but about giving, about generosity, about the person's values and worldview.

But why forgive, why this new "stance of benevolence"? I think that's a much tougher question. I think a "self centered" reasoning, which seems to be what a lot of psychology articles are proposing, is that forgiving others has a lot of mental health benefits for the person. So you're doing it for yourself. That may not convince everybody. So what else? If you are religious, or have personal spiritual beliefs, it is quite likely that forgiveness is up there in your value system too. It can be seen as the moral and the right thing to do. Even a religious duty. But not everybody is religious. So what else?

Quite a few people also seem to use humanistic reasons to forgive others. We are all humans, we make mistakes. Sometimes we act foolishly out of ignorance or fear, we lose our way, let greed or pride...whatever, run our lives. We are all hurting or suffering one way or another. A lot of times the people who have hurt us have been hurt themselves, had difficult lives, and when we come to see in them what we see in us, emotional holes, that becomes the basis for compassion.

It took me a long time but I've forgiven my parents. At first I felt if I forgive them, it means they did not hurt me so I wanted to hang on to my anger forever. Perhaps a combination of the above reasons pushed me towards forgiveness but it did not come easy. So many years spent in pain and suffering, so many years wasted in trying to gain their approval or make them change their ways or find out WHY they did what they did (and why did not do what I wanted them to do). I was mad at my parents, myself, at God, at life, at everything. Finding that I too had acted in hurtful ways towards others (including my parents) I constantly redirected the blame at them. If they had not done this, I would have been healthy and just fine so they are to blame, I would scream inside. But then one day I thought, what if my parents say the same about their own parents, saying the blame lies with their parents, with their upbringing? But somebody has to stop this cycle, I thought. The idea that I may be able to do it felt exciting. Did I have the courage to do it? I doubted it but forgiving them has made it easier to dream of such possibility.

[harvest moon]

In Greek, the word forgive consists of two words and, if you take it literally, forgive means that two people can coexist in the world, without them merging into one; in other words, that there is room for both of them, as separate individuals. I find it extremely accurate.

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Originally Posted by harvest moon

In Greek, the word forgive consists of two words and, if you take it literally, forgive means that two people can coexist in the world, without them merging into one; in other words, that there is room for both of them, as separate individuals. I find it extremely accurate.

Wow, thank you for sharing, I did not know, makes the concept that much more interesting for me.

For me... Forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate things. And like the quote said forgiveness isn't about saying what has been done wasn't wrong or wasn't important...so you don't give up your moral right to hold this against the other person. But being resentful, holding in anger, keeping a grudge has a way of hardening your heart and is emotionally exhausting. That is why I have always thought that forgiveness is about the person forgiving not the person who did wrong. I think for me it's saying... I do not like what you did... It was wrong and it hurt me... But I am not going to allow you to still have that much control over me so I can express my anger and hurt and then forgive you so I can move on in healing myself.

Reconciliation for me would involve the person acknowledging their wrong and asking for my forgiveness and then I would have to determine if it's in my own best interest to work towards regaining trust and to what level of relationship could be restored.

[archipelago]

It's interesting to see how something like forgiving someone would end up being an internal act and not an interpersonal action between two people.

I guess I don't think in these terms because forgiveness seems to imply that I have some sort of power to render a judgement and to then be merciful or something like that. I just don't feel that way.

What I feel instead is hurt and sometimes angry. I address these feelings more than what caused them and who did the what that caused them. I first understand why I have those feelings, feel compassion for myself, and somehow from that position move toward letting go. Holding on just continues to produce harm; letting go allows healing and moving on.

Did anyone mention an "apology"? How can you forgive someone without an apology or some kind of explanation of the offending act? How can you forgive a perpetrator when they never acknowledge they did anything wrong? When they express no remorse for their actions? I don't see it.

[archipelago]

On the general topic of what to do in response to someone who has caused harm, there is this account and poem that takes up first the natural response of being angry and then deepens to another understanding.

Call Me by My True Names by Thich Nhat Hanh

[allme]

Thank you so much for this. I really had no idea what forgiveness really was...this may not be the exact truth of it, but it makes sense to me and gives me something to aim for.

Thank you for finding this.

[lynn808]

Originally Posted by Cthrume

Did anyone mention an "apology"? How can you forgive someone without an apology or some kind of explanation of the offending act? How can you forgive a perpetrator when they never acknowledge they did anything wrong? When they express no remorse for their actions? I don't see it.

I wholeheartedly agree. I am having problems moving on since there was never any acknowledging of any wrongdoing at all.
Will this never end??

[StressedMess]

I told my T that my daughter and I cannot forgive her abuser because he insists he never did anything. He insists she is making it up and that he is not guilty. He will never apologize or accept fault. How can I forgive him?

T said holding on to the anger was only hurting me. He is not aware of my intense feelings. He is not capable of being touched by the hatred and intense anger that I carry within me. He is oblivious. And I am becoming more and more ill because of my feelings.

T said she could not "make" me forgive, until I am ready it will not happen. I can acknowledge his wrong even if he can't. I can acknowledge my child's pain even if he won't. I can grieve for the loss of my child's innocence and accept that it was not all my fault. And when I release all the curdled feelings inside me I won't have to suffer anymore, then I can work towards forgiving myself for not knowing and not protecting her, and eventually I can forgive him too.

It's not easy but I see that she is right. I have a long road to travel. There may not be forgiveness at the end of it, but there has been relief on the road.

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Cthrume

Did anyone mention an "apology"? How can you forgive someone without an apology or some kind of explanation of the offending act? How can you forgive a perpetrator when they never acknowledge they did anything wrong? When they express no remorse for their actions? I don't see it.

I can certainly see how an apology can make it easier, especially if it comes from the other person truly understanding what they did wrong and that the apology is actually heartfelt. I think the person who was hurt has to be convinced the other has truly realized what they did to them. Unfortunately, sometimes that is not possible. For instance some people are coming to terms with what their parents did to them but the parents have passed away. Or sometimes the other person is simply unable to truly understand how they hurt you or the apology made seems superficial.

In my view, the kind of forgiveness that must require an apology is a different kind of forgiveness than the one I stated here. The former is one where you try to continue relating with the person in the exact same way as before, the same bonds, the same vulnerability. We apologize to mend the temporarily broken bond and go back to things as they were. But this kind of forgiveness is different. This one comes with redefining the relationship, and a new understanding. You mentally step back. You protect yourself. Think of an extreme case, a woman forgiving her rapist. She can not do unless she is in a safe place, has processed what just happened, and redefines her relationship to this person (her expectations, beliefs, her feelings, etc). This second kind of forgiveness comes from a place of power and generosity and a new mental and emotional (and sometimes physical) distance filled with compassion. You can not come to it on the first step nor force it. You have to work your way towards it. Once you reach it, you realize you are not forgiving them from the same place you were before when you were victimized and vulnerable. This is a whole new stance.

Originally Posted by allme

Thank you so much for this. I really had no idea what forgiveness really was...this may not be the exact truth of it, but it makes sense to me and gives me something to aim for.

Thank you for finding this.

Yeah there are variations in the definition and this one was referenced a few places so I quoted it and it does make sense to me too. Like yourself, I did not know what it meant and so found reading it and thinking about it helpful.

You're very welcome.