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  #276  
Old Sep 14, 2015, 04:46 PM
missbella missbella is offline
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Paradoxically, we were instructed to express our emotions detachedly by narrating them, as in...."I felt anger when you swindled me out of my deposit." They wanted us to negotiate the world this way. It seems like they thought talking like robots was a desirable social skill.

PS. When one co-therapists shrieked "I feel anger" when I wanted to terminate, I found it absurdly comical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
I think often one of the big issues in therapy (of any kind) is getting patients in touch with their emotions.

I've certainly seen situations where people (such as myself) can use intellect/analytic approaches to nullify emotions thereby more or less preventing the therapy from getting to where/what it needs to get to.

Intellect if used to assist the therapy then yes it can help tremendously (provided the therapist acknowledges, understands and makes use of it) but it can also work against getting to the core of the issue(s).
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  #277  
Old Sep 14, 2015, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella View Post
Paradoxically, we were instructed to express our emotions detachedly by narrating them, as in...."I felt anger when you swindled me out of my deposit." They wanted us to negotiate the world this way. It seems like they thought talking like robots was a desirable social skill.

PS. When one co-therapists shrieked "I feel anger" when I wanted to terminate, I found it absurdly comical.
To give them the benefit of the doubt, it does help to try and express/put into words what you are feeling emotionally in order to get in touch with those emotions. In the therapy process it can provide a mechanism to delve into the deeper issues.

Still though a therapist shrieking "I feel anger" would be enough to send me packing. Unless of course it was part of the demonstration/encouragement of how to use/make use of the technique. Dunno...
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Last edited by kennyc; Sep 14, 2015 at 05:13 PM.
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  #278  
Old Sep 14, 2015, 05:01 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella View Post
Paradoxically, we were instructed to express our emotions detachedly by narrating them, as in...."I felt anger when you swindled me out of my deposit." They wanted us to negotiate the world this way. It seems like they thought talking like robots was a desirable social skill.

PS. When one co-therapists shrieked "I feel anger" when I wanted to terminate, I found it absurdly comical.
I would have burst out laughing. And I would never talk like that no matter what a therapist said. It is completely ridiculous.
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  #279  
Old Sep 14, 2015, 05:05 PM
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Lauliza Lauliza is offline
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
The first lcsw I see has tried to encourage it with me. The phd I saw for just a couple of months about 15 years ago did also. Frankly it seemed like both of them were trying to turn me into some sort of hugging, weeping, fairy seeing
hippie type.
It sounds like they wanted you to express emotion, not stop using your intellect. It is possible to do both - there are plenty of highly intelligent people who express emotions.
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  #280  
Old Sep 14, 2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Lauliza View Post
It sounds like they wanted you to express emotion, not stop using your intellect. It is possible to do both - there are plenty of highly intelligent people who express emotions.
No that is not correct. The woman did want me to stop.

I am sure there are plenty of people who do both - more power to them if they find it useful for them.
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  #281  
Old Sep 14, 2015, 06:34 PM
missbella missbella is offline
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I would have burst out laughing. And I would never talk like that no matter what a therapist said. It is completely ridiculous.
Yeah, for me, absurdity is an emotion. I feel absurdity when therapists instruct me to talk like an android. Beep...beep...beep.
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  #282  
Old Sep 14, 2015, 06:54 PM
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vonmoxie vonmoxie is offline
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In my case, my emotions are generally not unexpressed, therefore re-enacting those particular emotions for a therapist's benefit provides no release for me, and feels more like a mockery to authentic process than anything genuinely supportive. I always had trouble with the kind of trauma therapy that involves delving into all kinds of detail about the trauma in order that the therapist could attempt to get me to release what is theoretically unreleased, when my trouble is clearly not repression, and the disinclination to show emotion on demand cannot be assumed to be indicative of a psychological block or resistance though it seems to so often be.

There are always going to be situations that demand the kind of creative thinking that can't be taught in textbooks, that live on the perimeter of well-known psychoanalytical dogma, and clients with an especial ability to think critically are certainly going to make for a more complicated process for therapists to contend with, bringing more pre-existing consideration to the process. Having potentially educated themselves to the extent that they've already run themselves through just about everything that a therapist thinks to attempt to run them through. Potentially having the kind of intelligence that has already allowed for a deep reorganization of thought patterns, so that's what left and what's needed is beyond what's generally offered and assumed by therapists to be helpful. This just seems logical to me, and happens to be my personal experience.

For the things that I went through, things a 4 year old should never have to see and process, it is not insignificant that I never entirely lost my mind a long time ago, and it's overarchingly only been the result of work I've done on my own from my earliest days of living in libraries and cross-pollinating knowledge, that I have emerged with relative sanity (along with what was perhaps a configuration of genetic code particularly lucky for enduring my environment without totally going off the rails). I didn't want to do it on my own, but at the time my situation did not provide me with any other options. I love the help of a contributor when I can find one able, and there have been a few, but people who can or who choose to relate to the breadth of my thinking are simply few and far between.

I'm sure all that will sound pompous to some, but it's just the truth, which certainly doesn't suggest that it's the truth for everyone; such is the array of experienced reality. Anyway, I felt spurred to write. You know how I get.
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  #283  
Old Sep 15, 2015, 07:20 AM
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shakespeare47 shakespeare47 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lauliza View Post
Counselors do not encourage clients to stop being analytical and/ or intellectual, at least I've never met such a counselor.
I've met at least one, who, although he didn't say it outright, did lead me to believe that was what he thought.

I don't think it makes any sense. What would be the alternative? Just blindly follow any emotion/intuition that pops into one's head?
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  #284  
Old Sep 15, 2015, 07:22 AM
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shakespeare47 shakespeare47 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
I think often one of the big issues in therapy (of any kind) is getting patients in touch with their emotions.

I've certainly seen situations where people (such as myself) can use intellect/analytic approaches to nullify emotions thereby more or less preventing the therapy from getting to where/what it needs to get to.

Intellect if used to assist the therapy then yes it can help tremendously (provided the therapist acknowledges, understands and makes use of it) but it can also work against getting to the core of the issue(s).
I do think there is an assumption that intellectual=unemotional=bad. In reality, an intellectual/analytical person can and should deal honestly and rationally with his emotions, because it is rational to do so.
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  #285  
Old Sep 15, 2015, 07:25 AM
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shakespeare47 shakespeare47 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella View Post

PS. When one co-therapists shrieked "I feel anger" when I wanted to terminate, I found it absurdly comical.
Sounds manipulative to me.
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  #286  
Old Sep 15, 2015, 07:30 AM
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shakespeare47 shakespeare47 is offline
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Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
It is great with me if you are done. I see no purpose that makes feelings worthwhile to me. No one has ever presented an argument I find persuasive. I am sure the therapists I see would not be upset you don't agree with them. If you find active purpose in emotion, fine with me.
I think it fits with the IQ discussion.
I've been there. I think I avoided dealing honestly with emotions for a long time because they were difficult to deal with.

There is evidence that not dealing honestly with emotions can cause problems. For example, if totally unemotional, isn't decision making problematic? Why choose one way of living over another? Wouldn't living on skid row be just as good as living in a nice house that was paid for?

Edit: From the transcript of Julia Galef's Straw Vulcan talk I linked yesterday.
Quote:
Emotions are clearly necessary for forming the goals, rationality is simply lame without them. But there’s also some interesting evidence that emotions are important for making the decisions themselves. There’s a psychologist named Antonio Demasio who studies patients with brain damage to a certain part of their brain…Ventral parietal frontal cortex…I can’t remember the name, but essentially it’s part of the brain that’s crucial for reacting emotionally to one’s thoughts.
The patients who suffered from this injury were perfectly undamaged in other ways. They could perform just as well on tasks on visual perception, and language processing, and probabilistic reasoning, and all these other forms of deliberative reasoning and other senses. But their lives very quickly fell apart after this injury, because when they were making decisions they couldn’t actually simulate viscerally what the value was to them of the different options. So their jobs fell apart, their interpersonal relations fell apart, and also a lot of them became incredibly indecisive.
Demasio tells the story of one patient of his, who, when he left the doctor’s office Demasio gave him the choice of a pen or a wallet... Some cheap little wallet, whatever you want… And the patient sat there for about twenty minutes trying to decide. Finally he picked the wallet, but when he went home he left a message on the doctor’s voicemail saying “I changed my mind. Can I come back tomorrow and take the pen instead of the wallet?”
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Last edited by shakespeare47; Sep 15, 2015 at 07:45 AM.
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  #287  
Old Sep 15, 2015, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakespeare47 View Post
I've been there. I think I avoided expressing emotions for a long time because they were difficult to deal with.

There is evidence that not dealing honestly with emotions can cause problems. For example, if totally unemotional, isn't decision making problematic? Why choose one way of living over another?
Exactly.
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  #288  
Old Sep 15, 2015, 07:50 AM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakespeare47 View Post
I've been there. I think I avoided dealing honestly with emotions for a long time because they were difficult to deal with.

There is evidence that not dealing honestly with emotions can cause problems. For example, if totally unemotional, isn't decision making problematic? Why choose one way of living over another? Wouldn't living on skid row be just as good as living in a nice house that was paid for?

Edit: From the transcript of Julia Galef's Straw Vulcan talk I linked yesterday.
I see I am not making my position clear and am being completely misunderstood. Your response is not addressing what I am trying to say. I will bow out of this thread. However no one here can declare whether another is dealing honestly with emotions or not and how I approach it is certainly none of your business. I read your article and disagree with it.
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  #289  
Old Sep 15, 2015, 11:31 AM
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shakespeare47 shakespeare47 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I see I am not making my position clear and am being completely misunderstood. Your response is not addressing what I am trying to say. I will bow out of this thread. However no one here can declare whether another is dealing honestly with emotions or not and how I approach it is certainly none of your business. I read your article and disagree with it.
I was responding to your comments in post 271 and post 261.
Quote:
For me, a large part of it is that I don't see that emotion/feeling has any purpose. If it has no purpose, why would I waste time on it.
What did I misunderstand?

What in the article did you disagree with?
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  #290  
Old Nov 10, 2015, 08:12 PM
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ShrinkPatient ShrinkPatient is offline
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Originally Posted by shakespeare47 View Post
Why is the fact that someone is intellectual an issue? Why is the fact that someone is analytical an issue?

Is there something wrong with being intellectual and/or analytical? I would think this would only be a problem if it leads to some kind of paralysis. (Maybe some people are just doing it wrong. If a person is paralyzed by analytical or intellectual thoughts, then they're doing it wrong, IMHO).

There aren't really therapists who suggest their clients should stop being intellectual and/or analytical, are there?
Sorry my reply is so late.

My T does not give me a hard time for being intellectual and analytical. She just wants me to also recognize my feelings because they are a part of me and when I don't acknowledge them, they stay buried and I guess you could say that they....slowly try to destroy me from the inside out.
I don't think that everyone who approaches life in an intellectual way needs to acknowledge their emotions. There is no one thing that works for everyone.
I will step out on a limb and predict that my T would say something similar.
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  #291  
Old Nov 10, 2015, 08:17 PM
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CantExplain CantExplain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakespeare47 View Post
Why is the fact that someone is intellectual an issue? Why is the fact that someone is analytical an issue?

Is there something wrong with being intellectual and/or analytical? I would think this would only be a problem if it leads to some kind of paralysis. (Maybe some people are just doing it wrong. If a person is paralyzed by analytical or intellectual thoughts, then they're doing it wrong, IMHO).

There aren't really therapists who suggest their clients should stop being intellectual and/or analytical, are there?
((Shakespeare))

Therapists often regard analytical thinking as "black-and-white." Since they are generally fuzzy thinkers themselves, they take a dim view of this.

Madame T was constantly trying to "inject some shades of grey." I did not like that one bit.
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