[IndestructibleGirl]

Made a formal request for my file/ notes whatever to my ex therapist today. I expect it will take about six weeks for her to pull her finger out and actually get round to sending it, as she has 40 days to do so here in the UK.

I understand that the notes will be skeletal, clinical and bland. I'm not really concerned about that. What I am interested in is will those notes form the basis of her defence if I report her? Or can she suddenly add reams more to her notes, if it goes before an ethics board?

I have ideas of her scrabbling around amending and backdating these notes, saying things like 'the client displays traits of bpd' and 'the client is abusing me' in order to make me look as unstable as possible, and build a case for herself as the sensible practitioner tortured by the crazy client. There will only be so much lying and backpedalling she can do, however, as I have plenty of emails/ texts highlighting all her sh#t. Forget red flags, this is like a whole village-worth of red f'cking bunting

So, will she have to stick roughly to what these notes contain, or can she change them in an investigation?

How does it work?

[Mike_J]

I don't know for sure, but if you ask for your records, and get them before she knows you are thinking about or planning to report her it will be difficult for her to add to or change her records after you report her. There would be a lot of explaining as to why the records that you have that were sent to you by her are different than the ones she gives to the ethics board. But with that said if she knows you are going to report her, and she has the only copy of your records she could edit, add to, remove as much as she wanted. If she doesn't know you plan to report her don't let her know until after you have a copy of your records.

Good luck..

Welcome to PC....

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thanks. No, she does not know, but she is being quite cagey in general what with copying the PA into every email she sends me - so I can see her hamming up my notes before she sends them out.

Hmm.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Made a formal request for my file/ notes whatever to my ex therapist today. I expect it will take about six weeks for her to pull her finger out and actually get round to sending it, as she has 40 days to do so here in the UK.

I understand that the notes will be skeletal, clinical and bland. I'm not really concerned about that. What I am interested in is will those notes form the basis of her defence if I report her? Or can she suddenly add reams more to her notes, if it goes before an ethics board?

I have ideas of her scrabbling around amending and backdating these notes, saying things like 'the client displays traits of bpd' and 'the client is abusing me' in order to make me look as unstable as possible, and build a case for herself as the sensible practitioner tortured by the crazy client. There will only be so much lying and backpedalling she can do, however, as I have plenty of emails/ texts highlighting all her sh#t. Forget red flags, this is like a whole village-worth of red f'cking bunting

So, will she have to stick roughly to what these notes contain, or can she change them in an investigation?

How does it work?

here in New york (the one in the USA) when a client and therapist terminate that clients file is closed. what that means is the file goes into the inactive pile. that therapist no longer has access to the file. when requests for the files come in it is the receptionist (some locations call this an intern or secretary ) pulls the file and makes copies of the requested information, then envelops the copies, stamps and mails the copies to who ever did the requesting.

the only time a treatment provider has access to a closed file here in NY is if that treatment provider was in private practice with no intern or receptionist /staffing to do the "gopher" work of searching through hundreds of closed files to locate one file.

thats not saying whats in the file wont be used in ethics and court cases. here in america those accused have the right to know who their accuser is, see their accuser and defend their self against what ever crime they are being accused of. that means when a treatment provider is sent before the ethics board they have the right to a lawyer and that lawyer has the right to request any and all evidence that may clear the therapist of any wrong doing. that can include requesting documents/files from treatment providers past and present, any video or audio recordings made during treatment,...

here in America we have privacy laws that protect someones health records but those privacy laws do not extend to legal issues like ethics reviews, court cases, crimes,....

my suggestion is contact your ethics board. they will be able to tell you whether your past history, and mental health records will be part of the legal proceedings of ethics cases in your location.

[WrkNPrgress]

Obviously it would be unethical for her to add or alter anything for a specific motive but I can't see how anyone could do anything to control that fact. She will or she won't.

[JaneTennison1]

Did the copying the PA thing start before you left or are you still emailing her?? She may beef up the notes, no way to know. It's mainly your word against hers anyway so it will be a tough one. I wish you luck.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

Did the copying the PA thing start before you left or are you still emailing her?? She may beef up the notes, no way to know. It's mainly your word against hers anyway so it will be a tough one. I wish you luck.

Thanks. I'm not sure it would simply be my word against hers. I have all the emails. She can hardly deny writing them?

The copying in started a while ago.

I want to see how much of a fool she takes me for in the notes as a start.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Thanks. I'm not sure it would simply be my word against hers. I have all the emails. She can hardly deny writing them?

The copying in started a while ago.

I want to see how much of a fool she takes me for in the notes as a start.

just a heads up...if you were here where I live and work emails are not admissible because they can be faked and are not covered by confidentiality/ethics laws. short version anyone can create an email and pretend to be anyone. hackers and scammers do it all the time by hacking into companies and then sending bogus emails. just today my spam and inbox in my email is full of emails from bogus mental and physical health and other companies that I know did not come from my bank, my treatment providers and other companies\websites ...all your ex treatment provider has to say is someone must have hacked into her email account and those emails are no longer proof of breach of ethics. (this is why here at the crisis center where I work we do not email clients and my own treatment provider does not use emailing of clients.)

[Ididitmyway]

I requested the copy of my records before I filed a complaint, which is something I suggest everyone to do if you are thinking about reporting. Once the T sends you the copies or the summary of the records, they can't alter them later. At least, that's how it works here, in the US. Regardless, what they have sent to you IS the evidence whether they alter the records later or not.

Here, in the US, specifically in California, Ts have only 15 days to fulfill the client's request for the copies of their records. My T sent me the summary, which I latter attached to my complaint to the board along with my amendment of his summary.

In CA, the client has the right to amend the T's records, which is to voice their objection to anything and everything they feel is inaccurate and doesn't reflect the reality of what happened in therapy. Sure enough, I wrote my amendment as soon as I learned about the law that allowed me to do so. The amendment then becomes a part of the records and the T is legally required to send it to any third party along with the T's records. Again, this is how it works in CA. I don't know about other states.

If the T alters anything after they send you the records, it would badly reflect on them and would work against them during the investigation and the litigation process, so no smart T would do that. They would make sure to write up the summary the best way possible to cover their ***** before they send it out.

I think IG's concern is that her ex-therapist will alter them before sending her a copy. I don't think there's anyway to protect against that, unless a computer expert can show that changes had been made, assuming it was all filed electronically to begin with.

In my experience, a therapist will go to any lengths to protect her/himself (emotionally and professionally), regardless of what it does to the client. They can (and will) do what it takes to justify what they've done.

[Ididitmyway]

It's true, there is no way to insure that the therapist won't alter the records before sending them out, so you'll deal with what you'll get..

[ScarletPimpernel]

I am wondering if your ex-T does change your notes, if you could request an assessment from a neutral T to help your defense that your ex-T is wrong. Or, could you get your file/notes from another ex-T, Pdoc, or current T? If none of those work, you might even want to get signed documentation from others about your "character".

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by WrkNPrgress

Obviously it would be unethical for her to add or alter anything for a specific motive but I can't see how anyone could do anything to control that fact. She will or she won't.

Yes. I know. I guess I have to wait and see what is in the initial notes that she presents me with!

Originally Posted by amandalouise

just a heads up...if you were here where I live and work emails are not admissible because they can be faked and are not covered by confidentiality/ethics laws. short version anyone can create an email and pretend to be anyone. hackers and scammers do it all the time by hacking into companies and then sending bogus emails. just today my spam and inbox in my email is full of emails from bogus mental and physical health and other companies that I know did not come from my bank, my treatment providers and other companies\websites ...all your ex treatment provider has to say is someone must have hacked into her email account and those emails are no longer proof of breach of ethics. (this is why here at the crisis center where I work we do not email clients and my own treatment provider does not use emailing of clients.)

This really alarmed me - but I called the regulatory body who have confirmed that emails and texts are sound to use in backing up anything I say.

I think it's awful that emails can't be used as evidence in your state. Is that true even if it is say a secure work email or an apple account linked to your credit card or similar? Not just an anonymous web-based address?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I requested the copy of my records before I filed a complaint, which is something I suggest everyone to do if you are thinking about reporting. Once the T sends you the copies or the summary of the records, they can't alter them later. At least, that's how it works here, in the US. Regardless, what they have sent to you IS the evidence whether they alter the records later or not.

Here, in the US, specifically in California, Ts have only 15 days to fulfill the client's request for the copies of their records. My T sent me the summary, which I latter attached to my complaint to the board along with my amendment of his summary.

In CA, the client has the right to amend the T's records, which is to voice their objection to anything and everything they feel is inaccurate and doesn't reflect the reality of what happened in therapy. Sure enough, I wrote my amendment as soon as I learned about the law that allowed me to do so. The amendment then becomes a part of the records and the T is legally required to send it to any third party along with the T's records. Again, this is how it works in CA. I don't know about other states.

If the T alters anything after they send you the records, it would badly reflect on them and would work against them during the investigation and the litigation process, so no smart T would do that. They would make sure to write up the summary the best way possible to cover their ***** before they send it out.

Yes, having spoken to the professional body, she cannot totally change stuff in my client notes per se - but she can pull out supervision notes, etc, if she fancies it.

Originally Posted by licketysplit

I think IG's concern is that her ex-therapist will alter them before sending her a copy. I don't think there's anyway to protect against that, unless a computer expert can show that changes had been made, assuming it was all filed electronically to begin with.

In my experience, a therapist will go to any lengths to protect her/himself (emotionally and professionally), regardless of what it does to the client. They can (and will) do what it takes to justify what they've done.

That's what I'm wondering. I wonder if she will leaf back through the notes and add in a few choice remarks that will make her look favourable, if she has it in her mind that I might be considering making a complaint.

I'm sure she will go to any lengths to protect herself. This is after all the woman who said, for no discernable reason "I love you, but I won't give up a 20 year career for you." So heaven help me when it comes to what she is prepared to do now she doesn't love me.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

I am wondering if your ex-T does change your notes, if you could request an assessment from a neutral T to help your defense that your ex-T is wrong. Or, could you get your file/notes from another ex-T, Pdoc, or current T? If none of those work, you might even want to get signed documentation from others about your "character".

Yeah, my pdoc would have my back on this. She was spitting feathers when she heard out about the whole mess with old therapist.

I have a copy of the letter that the psychologist who assessed me for bpd sent my gp too, and although I won't be seeing any of her team until the summer, the letter is quite useful for several reasons.

I won't involve my other pdoc at all, as he also treats ex therapist and has done so for a long time, so any loyalty will be with her. Also he doesn't really know me, so would not really be appropriate. I don't want to delete him from my circle of contacst though, because he is a bloody genius with meds - he got me my current prescription which fits me like a glove.

[JaneTennison1]

She made mistakes, HUGE ones but a lot of ethics boards will just slap her on the wrists and say don't do it again, are you ok if this is the outcome?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

She made mistakes, HUGE ones but a lot of ethics boards will just slap her on the wrists and say don't do it again, are you ok if this is the outcome?

Yep. Happy enough. If I do go ahead, report, and it comes to that. It would not be about exacting revenge - it would be about refusing to be effectively gagged and bullied into silence. What she did makes me seriously doubt her fitness to practise some days, but it's really not up to me whether she is or not. Perhaps she is more than fit, and what happened with me was just a one off, a bizarre quirk. If a professional body decide that, then it absolves me of responsibility, I will have brought it to their attention and there is literally no more I can do.

I would be more than pleased if they told her not to do it again. It might save some other person from going through it again, it might make her smarten up and take her job seriously.

If, for any reason, the emails are not considered valid, you have other examples of unorthodox behavior that created an unhealthy dependency, such as going with you to the dentist. There are witnesses to that. And while it was incredibly helpful to you at the time, it shows the dynamic and the progression of your relationship. If she holds true to form, she'll bring up that you wanted to resume therapy with her recently and that this is in retaliation. Examples of how she love bombed you will go a long way to show how you were affected--the stress of terminating, what it did to you, how you just wanted to end the suffering by returning to her. It shows her hold on you.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by licketysplit

If, for any reason, the emails are not considered valid, you have other examples of unorthodox behavior that created an unhealthy dependency, such as going with you to the dentist. There are witnesses to that. And while it was incredibly helpful to you at the time, it shows the dynamic and the progression of your relationship. If she holds true to form, she'll bring up that you wanted to resume therapy with her recently and that this is in retaliation. Examples of how she love bombed you will go a long way to show how you were affected--the stress of terminating, what it did to you, how you just wanted to end the suffering by returning to her. It shows her hold on you.

Ha, the dentist saw me twice and is about 70 years old so not sure he would remember specifics and be able to be a witness! Though he might remember someone came with me, because when I went in alone the first time I was a total wreck.

I think the emails would be counted though, the case manager person I spoke to said they would be. And also text messages.

[stopdog]

In the state where I practice law, emails are admissible as evidence.

[Ididitmyway]

The emails were counted in my case. Everything I had was counted: his summary of the records and all the stuff I had on him such as emails, phone messages and the records of other therapists who saw me and him together.

Realistically, you should expect that whatever she will send you will be written in the best way possible to cover her (there is no doubt about that) and then you'll collect whatever you've kept like phone and text messages, emails etc. This will be all you will have. Send it all to the regulatory body and leave it at that. Detach yourself from the outcome because you won't be able to control it. This is what I did and I am glad I did that. I would've driven myself crazy if I'd tried to control the outcome of the investigation. It was important to me to report the T and to get the board involved, but I had no desire to waste my precious life energy to make sure that they punish him properly, and I didn't have any control over that process anyway.

Do what you can, but don't try to control the outcome. After you report her, try to find ways to move on with your life. I've known victims of abusive therapists who dedicated their entire lives trying to punish their abusers. They seemed very miserable to me. While they were working obsessively on "serving justice" 24/7, life was passing by and they couldn't even notice it passing..they never stopped to look around and to enjoy what life was offering in the present moment..never took time to "smell the roses" so to speak..

I can't find any information stating that emails aren't admissible in New York state. I am glad that the emails are admissible. Reporting can give you some type of closure even if nothing comes of it.

[AlilBirdie]

Originally Posted by Mike_J

If she doesn't know you plan to report her don't let her know until after you have a copy of your records.

Agreed. Don't let her know in advance. Don't file until you actually see them, also even though in the UK they have 40 days, is it possible for you to go to her office and try to pick them up?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thank you.

Yes, I realise it would be out of my hands, and that's fine. I wouldn't be trying to control the outcome. I still don't even know 100% if it is the right thing to do or not, you guys all advised waiting a chunk of time and then reassessing, so I feel that getting the client notes is the first step either way. I do feel that I want to log it all with the professional body, because why should I swallow her f#ck ups without a murmur?

At the same time I feel quite uncomfortable thinking it could harm her, and all the other clients who adore her. My friend who also sees her was chatting to me and made it clear just how much ex therapist helps him, I felt so guilty.

But I don't want to stay silent and do nothing if I believe she could mess with other people's heads. But maybe she doesn't mess with anyone else's head anyway.

It's confusing, and I'm trying to bear in mind that sometimes the best thing to do in a situation may still actually feel pretty sh#t.

[Ididitmyway]

It sounds like you have a lot to process and I'd spend some time doing just that.

When I filed a complaint, I did it only when it was clear to me that I no longer had any feelings of love, attachment, appreciation etc. for my ex-T. I decided that as long as those feelings were still lingering I wouldn't file. I just got the summary of my records from him because then I could take my time to decide when I want to file and whether I want to do that at all. I filed six months after the relationship ended. I couldn't write up the whole thing at once because the memories were too triggering and it was too painful to put them in writing. I could only do one paragraph at a time. But it was just pain from the wound caused by the betrayal and the exploitation. There were no good feelings about him left so I was not conflicted when I was writing about it and when I sent it out. I felt relief when I did it. No guilt whatsoever.

Two months later I was interviewed by the investigator. I was very calm during the interview. I answered all the questions in a neutral, matter-of-fact way. Eight months later the board issued the accusation and another eight months later he and the board reached the settlement by which his license was put on probation for five years with a bunch of requirements he had to fulfill to clear his record. Both documents are on the board's website and are accessible to anyone who wants to check his disciplinary records.

This was definitely an empowering thing for me to do and facilitated my healing process a lot.