[BudFox]

I had a terribly painful rupture with a T last fall. In the handful of interactions after termination she became defensive and even a bit hostile, and began subtly blaming me for the breakdown.

I consulted with another therapist who sometimes mediates when therapy hits an impasse. He said to me: "it might help if you think of your T as a human being rather than a therapy machine who will always do the right thing".

But the whole premise of therapy is the notion of the T as more evolved and even superior, having worked thru their own issues enough that they can keep them from intruding on therapy and the needs of the client. It's also assumed the T is wise, insightful, kind, understanding… in short super human.

Can the profession have it both ways -- trust us with your deepest pain and problems, we are wise and righteous and omniscient, but when things go wrong they are "only human"?

Seems the truth is that Ts are just like everyone else. Not saying it can't be helpful, but at the core there seems to be a basic dishonesty and hypocrisy that can pretty easily lead to disaster.

Discuss...

[Crazy Hitch]

Hello BudFox

Yes, I believe that you have raised some highly valid points here; and I believe that responses will be incredibly varied so this is quite an interesting post.

I can only respond according to what I personally feel on this topic.

In the ideal world; yes; everything you have said will work out exactly like this.

Ours Ts would have all of the issues taken care of etc.

But the reality is this.

It is called Life.

Life is what happens when we are making other plans, or so to speak.

So any t that we see, regardless of how old the T is, regardless of what walk of life they are in, is going to, on an ongoing basis be experiencing circumstances within their personal life that may be challenging.

Now I am not for one second suggesting that any T brings their issues from their personal life into therapy - absolutely NOT - they should remain as two separate entities - but I would like to get onto this point -

I guess all Ts have their own issues; background; make their own choices; have their own personal beliefs - so the degree to which Ts can be viewed as "human" -

Well yes, I think that they are human; warts and all.

Some things shouldn't be carried into therapy (their own emotional baggage) and some things from their past (resoluved issues) that make them stronger yes that can be good too.

[Leah123]

I don't think the profession can have it both ways, and I don't want a therapist who thinks in those black and white terms.

My therapist isn't more evolved or superior, she's simply experienced in her field and has a desire to help along with having done her own work so helping is easier. She's nothing more or less than a human well suited to the helping profession. I think avoiding the disaster you speak of means keeping perspective about a therapist's abilities, intentions and personhood. That can be hard because of the nature of the process, but I've found it worthwhile.

I think that in general Ts should work with more humility and questioning. We tend to think of power going to the heads of people in a position of power, and maybe Ts can also get affected in this way. I guess we need to think of Ts as being human and fallible, and they need to think of that too. I also think that my ex-T considered that she did nothing wrong in my therapy.

[stopdog]

I have no problem knowing they are all too fallible and human. The problem, as I see it, lies in that so often they seem to forget it.

I think the humanness of the therapist can have tremendous healing power if the therapist can admit to NOT knowing everything and to making mistakes and to be willing to work through those mistakes with a client. If they have the attitude of being godlike and above the clients then I don't see much healing/helping potential.

My second therapist was very open about not knowing it all and being willing to look at things differently and I assume he would have apologized if he had made a terrible mistake with me. He was very helpful to me.

Of course everyone goes to a therapist for a different reason and healing might not be the reason one is in therapy, but hopefully this sort of makes sense?

In my search and research it seems like too many of them do have a superior attitude.

[JaneTennison1]

They are only human, they do make mistakes. We are to trust them because they have knowledge that can help. I don't think of a T as superior, only that she has a set of skills that can help me to work on issues I want to and help make improvements. As humans they make mistakes all the time and hope we are still ok. I don't think of them as some all powerful being. Yes trust them to help and with information (as they are bound by confidentiality) but don't expect them not to balls it up.

The difference in therapy ( for me anyway) is my T's willingness to hear me and process all feelings and to not dismiss me or shut me down.

[SallyBrown]

I think this question touches on so many different kinds of problems that arise in therapy. I agree with others who seem to be saying that going too far in either direction is problematic.

The way I see it, therapists are no different from anyone else who are trying to hone and employ a set of skills. The thing about it is that the skills they are trying to put in place often require overriding a lot of the things that make us human, while maintaining their humanity enough to be able to identify how we, the clients, might better be able to relate to other humans in a non-T interaction. So it can kind of get to feeling like they're doing something "superhuman" -- and sadly, many T's certainly seem to *think* they are superhuman -- but they're not, really. They're practicing a skill.

My own job doesn't involve other people's feelings, but I have to override my humanity in certain ways. There are people in my field who think this makes them superhuman, much to my annoyance. It doesn't.

At the same time in EVERY field and in EVERY situation there's always a danger of falling into the "I'm only human" trap. It's easy for such a thing to become an excuse. I'm only human, so if I mess up a project because I'm grieving my grandmother's death, it's understandable to my coworkers even if it impacts them negatively. The question then becomes, what do I do about the fact that my "humanness" is interfering with my work? I don't see it as being any different for a T. Sometimes I think it can be the case that a T can get so burnt out with trying to be "superhuman" that he or she might get resentful and defensive if they do make a "human" mistake, and end up dismissing it. So it's kind of a special version of a pretty common disaster.

Anyway, I think this balance comes into play in many professions -- it's just that with therapy, a big part of that profession is another person's feelings and deepest vulnerabilities. We also go into it with so many expectations of the T tending to our feelings that it feels extra bad if suddenly their personal life peeks through. So the stakes end up being really high, and what might be just a bump in the road in another line of work can be a horrible rupture in the T relationship.

[missbella]

I think this is the deception. My own therapists, and numerous authors and bloggers I've encountered present themselves as shamans, absolute authorities and experts on subjects that no mortal human can possibly be. OK, I as a client took my own need to venerate, but the dynamics were two (in one case three) sided tangos with therapists feeding the idolization and my subjugation.

I've seen power and hierarchy create in the most subtle of ways, through someone pretending to have pat answers to situations that are not clear-cut, by dismissiveness, through word choice or vocal tone, by controlling the narrative, by labeling, by painting the client as the vulnerable, flawed one. I enjoyed a book about the subtleties: Theo Dorpat's "Gaslighting, the Double Whammy, Interrogation and Other Methods of Covert Control in Psychotherapy and Analysis."

It's interesting how we recognize subtle manipulation when we're outside it. We see the humor and irony in "mean girl" types of stories, the tiny digs, the strategies the Queen Bee uses to keep her position. The situation isn't so funny when we're in it.

Originally Posted by BudFox

But the whole premise of therapy is the notion of the T as more evolved and even superior, having worked thru their own issues enough that they can keep them from intruding on therapy and the needs of the client. It's also assumed the T is wise, insightful, kind, understanding… in short super human.

Can the profession have it both ways -- trust us with your deepest pain and problems, we are wise and righteous and omniscient, but when things go wrong they are "only human"?

Seems the truth is that Ts are just like everyone else. Not saying it can't be helpful, but at the core there seems to be a basic dishonesty and hypocrisy that can pretty easily lead to disaster.

Discuss...

Originally Posted by BudFox

I had a terribly painful rupture with a T last fall. In the handful of interactions after termination she became defensive and even a bit hostile, and began subtly blaming me for the breakdown.

I consulted with another therapist who sometimes mediates when therapy hits an impasse. He said to me: "it might help if you think of your T as a human being rather than a therapy machine who will always do the right thing".

But the whole premise of therapy is the notion of the T as more evolved and even superior, having worked thru their own issues enough that they can keep them from intruding on therapy and the needs of the client. It's also assumed the T is wise, insightful, kind, understanding… in short super human.

Can the profession have it both ways -- trust us with your deepest pain and problems, we are wise and righteous and omniscient, but when things go wrong they are "only human"?

Seems the truth is that Ts are just like everyone else. Not saying it can't be helpful, but at the core there seems to be a basic dishonesty and hypocrisy that can pretty easily lead to disaster.

Discuss...

I certainly have never thought of them as super human, nor have I had a therapist ever consider himself that way, so I don't really see the double standard.

You are right: therapists are just like everyone else. But I don't see that has dishonest of hypocritical. They are trudging through life just like the rest of us and hopefully, through their training, can help us gain some insight into our own issues and needs, but that certainly doesn't preclude them from having their own issues and needs. I know of no one on Earth, who has life so figured out at some point, that they no longer have their own problems, that includes therapists.

My T was subhuman is that an option? He not only made one mistake or two. No, he went above and beyond that. He violated my confidentiality on a continuing basis for at least one year with someone who is NOT a professional. Someone he had a crush on or who knows what. Frankly, I don't believe there is any rational excuse for his behavior. When I discovered what he was doing it crushed me. Did he care to try and clear up the matter? NO! I gave him more opportunities than you can count to be honest with me. He refuses. He can continue playing his games but be prepared for the backlash. I won't go down easily.

[missbella]

lg, you're fortunate never to have been ensnared in this delusional dynamic. I was trapped by it; I've seen offline friends become surrendering infants in therapy relationship and numerous books and blogs where the therapists present themselves as a towering authority on life. One off-line therapist acquaintance reared up to decree Life Lessons to me.

Maybe the most extreme and publicized examples of these mini-cults are Woody Allen and Brian Wilson. Then there's a book by Rosie Alexander called Folie à Deux. I speculate more common are examples of undue influence like I experienced and apparently alluded to on this board. Deborah Lott chronicles this extensively in In Session. A handful of therapists themselves explored the problem.

I agree completely with you--there's nothing rational about it. I speculate these events tap into the yearnings of parent-child bonding and unaware therapists who ride too high when their client's idolize them. When it does happen though, it can be hellish to extract oneself. To pull that most ironic of Woody Allen quotes. "The heart wants what the heart wants."

Originally Posted by lolagrace

I certainly have never thought of them as super human, nor have I had a therapist ever consider himself that way, so I don't really see the double standard.

You are right: therapists are just like everyone else. But I don't see that has dishonest of hypocritical. They are trudging through life just like the rest of us and hopefully, through their training, can help us gain some insight into our own issues and needs, but that certainly doesn't preclude them from having their own issues and needs. I know of no one on Earth, who has life so figured out at some point, that they no longer have their own problems, that includes therapists.

[RedSun]

Lolagrace, thank you, that was beautifully put. Can I just copy and paste it as my post?

I think that a few on here have made a valid point, -that there isn't always a delusion. I personally do not think my t is, or tries to be, superhuman. My, again personal, experience of many T's is that their understanding of their own processes and experiences has, if anything, made them more aware of exactly how human they are.
Like anyone, in any profession, hopefully they have some skills and information which is helpful to the consumer. Like any profession, this won't always work out for everyone. I'm sorry that some have experienced a 'delusional dynamic' but I have experienced honesty and integrity and I am inspired by that.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I had a terribly painful rupture with a T last fall. In the handful of interactions after termination she became defensive and even a bit hostile, and began subtly blaming me for the breakdown.

I consulted with another therapist who sometimes mediates when therapy hits an impasse. He said to me: "it might help if you think of your T as a human being rather than a therapy machine who will always do the right thing".

But the whole premise of therapy is the notion of the T as more evolved and even superior, having worked thru their own issues enough that they can keep them from intruding on therapy and the needs of the client. It's also assumed the T is wise, insightful, kind, understanding… in short super human.

Can the profession have it both ways -- trust us with your deepest pain and problems, we are wise and righteous and omniscient, but when things go wrong they are "only human"?

Seems the truth is that Ts are just like everyone else. Not saying it can't be helpful, but at the core there seems to be a basic dishonesty and hypocrisy that can pretty easily lead to disaster.

Discuss...

I agree that there seem to be a double standard perpetuated by professionals, when in certain situations they project the idea that their visions/knowledge is The Truth, and in other situations, all of a sudden they are "only human", which is a standard defensive reaction when they screw up and don't want to take responsibilty and apologize for their mistakes.

I believe, this double standard wouldn't be used if they informed the prospective clients about the limits of their knowledge from the get go and assumed a much more modest role, may be one of a consultant, not a "healer". The relative validity and the subjectivity of psychotherapy theories and the limited amount of research data behind them should be disclosed from the start, so people would be able to make an informed choice when making decisions to use this service or not. This would make the whole enterprise easier on both, consultants and their clients, and definitely more honest.

Originally Posted by Red75

Lolagrace, thank you, that was beautifully put. Can I just copy and paste it as my post?

Sure. Not sure what I said that made that impression, but hey, whatever works.

[nottrustin]

I look at it like any other profession. I don't expect anybody to know everything about their chosen career and to not make mistakes in their person life or in the Therapy room. Doctors, police officers, lawyers, nurses, etc I don't expect anybody to be perfect. Mistakes happen it is how it is handled that makes the difference.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

I certainly have never thought of them as super human, nor have I had a therapist ever consider himself that way, so I don't really see the double standard.

You are right: therapists are just like everyone else. But I don't see that has dishonest of hypocritical. They are trudging through life just like the rest of us and hopefully, through their training, can help us gain some insight into our own issues and needs, but that certainly doesn't preclude them from having their own issues and needs. I know of no one on Earth, who has life so figured out at some point, that they no longer have their own problems, that includes therapists.

But we wouldn't go to therapists if they were just like everyone else. The assumption is that they possess skills or abilities that make them different, and the field collectively presents itself as such.

But if in fact they are not different and their needs can intrude on therapy, as one would expect from any human being, and the client has a pattern of abuse or trauma, and they are relating to T as a parental or authority figure, and the inherent power imbalance and asymmetry leaves the client vulnerable and exposed, and even minor transgressions on the part of the T can lead to serious consequences for a fragile client… well then I think there is a core dishonesty lurking there.

And for me it was not revealed until was I hurt, and hurt badly, by therapy. Prior to that, I simply did not give it much thought.

Originally Posted by BudFox

But we wouldn't go to therapists if they were just like everyone else. The assumption is that they possess skills or abilities that make them different, and the field collectively presents itself as such.

But if in fact they are not different and their needs can intrude on therapy, as one would expect from any human being, and the client has a pattern of abuse or trauma, and they are relating to T as a parental or authority figure, and the inherent power imbalance and asymmetry leaves the client vulnerable and exposed, and even minor transgressions on the part of the T can lead to serious consequences for a fragile client… well then I think there is a core dishonesty lurking there.

And for me it was not revealed until was I hurt, and hurt badly, by therapy. Prior to that, I simply did not give it much thought.

That's a lot of "ands" (the English teacher in my calls that polysyndeton - sorry I'm in the middle of AP testing mode right now).

That is the proverbial perfect storm I suppose. Still don't see that as dishonest particularly though.

[Partless]

BudFox, well said, I agree. When it's convenient for them, they're superhuman, they want us to trust them with so much personal stuff and they share nothing of theirs, want us to rely on their expertise and authority, even challenge our autonomy and tell us how to think or feel about issues....

And yet suddenly in other times, when they make mistakes, and when we want to blame them, they withdraw into them being human just like us, prone to errors and confusions and weaknesses.

How convenient for them!

I think each T has to be required to read patients a long list of what they are and they are not, right from the get go, so the patient is not under the wrong impression nor can the T keep doing the yoyo dance of mindfudge with the patient's head as they please. Be same person and stick with it!

[Leah123]

Sure, they have therapy skills, but I don't see that as making them different, I see that as making them better trained, just as I see a dentist for their training but don't see them as superhuman. Understanding is part of the skillset, omniscience certainly isn't! I'm sure it's harder in therapy where we're treating emotional pains, but it's true in all professions that there are arrogant individuals, whether teachers, engineers, vets or others.

It would be like worshipping a dentist because they had the "secret" to filling a cavity....

My dentist did screw up with me, badly, and I left.

I think if we put therapists in a separate superhuman category, we may be falling prey to our own gullibility, desire to be saved.

I do see how that would be very easy to do, especially with a misguided practitioner who has a know-it-all mentality combined with some charisma.

There are lots of good practicioners who don't, indeed, that's my definition of a good practitioner- self-aware, skilled, helpful, not controlling.

Just like anyone can have kids, anyone with a student loan and some stick-with-it-ness can be a therapist.... just like any job.

[stopdog]

But they are quite often not clear about what they are doing, what the pros and cons are for the client for any course a therapist launches off on, client blame is rampant in their approach, their literature and their labels and they often do not operate like regular human interactions go - they set it up like that. And some of them do just lie to clients.
10 More Things Your Therapist Won?t Tell You | World of Psychology

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[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Leah123

My therapist isn't more evolved or superior, she's simply experienced in her field and has a desire to help along with having done her own work so helping is easier. She's nothing more or less than a human well suited to the helping profession. I think avoiding the disaster you speak of means keeping perspective about a therapist's abilities, intentions and personhood. That can be hard because of the nature of the process, but I've found it worthwhile.

This is how I thought of my ex T. She was like a guardian angel. But then things ended and i began to raise questions. And she turned on me. Not because she is a bad person, but because I triggered her own insecurities.

Even the most selfless and well intentioned T can eventually be turned inside out by a client, and then nobody is "minding the store". And then the one who is in the vulnerable position in the therapy relationship is subject to possible abuse and trauma. This does not make all therapists bad people or incompetent. For me it is a basic hypocrisy that was latent and then made manifest, and as much to do with the setup of therapy as individual Ts.

Don't mean to sound self righteous, but I have now seen the dark side and I have suffered as a result.

[CantExplain]

Ts are human, but they are supposed to know something about relationships and human nature, and they are supposed to learn from their mistakes.

My husband is a T. He and I have friends who are Ts. I promise you that they are VERY human and have plenty of their own issues. They might be able to put them aside while they are in session with someone, but once they are off work their issues push their way back in. My T also has plenty of her own issues and bad habits.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Even the most selfless and well intentioned T can eventually be turned inside out by a client, and then nobody is "minding the store". And then the one who is in the vulnerable position in the therapy dyad is subject to possible abuse and trauma..

I'm sorry your last therapeutic relationship ended badly. I don't think every therapist can be turned into a bad one by a client at all, nor that there's inherent hypocrisy in seeing someone for help who can give it. The help isn't salvation, it's just two people working toward a goal, and they won't all be equally productive or positive pairings.

They're just people, trained people. They aren't always going to respond the way we want, or be perfect or handle everything ideally. But no, I certainly have not experienced and don't believe in that sweeping, pessimistic generalization.

I hope if you want one that you can have a corrective experience with someone new or find some other non-therapy process to get where you want to be, therapy can certainly be tough and disillusioning when it doesn't go well (and when it does!) but hopefully now that you understand therapists shouldn't be on a pedastal, idealized, it would be easier to maintain a relationship as an equal with one, if not every moment, in general.

I do think in part, this debate rests on how much power we have and credit ourselves with. I see myself as powerful. If we're talking about people who are impaired in some way, I see that differently. But I'm not at the mercy of my therapist, though her opinion may seem very important at times, I am really just placing myself in a situation to be helped and I have to be in charge of sticking with her, leaving her, changing our work together, etc. depending on how helpful I find the work and relationship to be. A bit like bdsm- I willingly submit, but it's always my perogative to stop. If my partner doesn't stop, they're not my partner, not within the role, they're a rapist. A therapist who is out of control isn't a bad therapist but a bad person if we're talking about extreme cases.