Therapist Thinks I'm Lying But I'm Not-How To Handle?

Hi - I'm new to psychotherapy, having just started this month (for depression, sleep problems, PTSD, anxiety mainly). I'm in my 50's.

I got my medical records and noted that the therapist concluded that some factual information about my past was "Magical Thinking".

I freely admit to engaging in magical thinking in some ways.

However, my therapist misinterprets the nature of some of my factual life experiences with magical thinking, apparently predominantly in relation to the fact that I come from an aerospace and entertainment industry background. This kind of background is completely normal where I grew up (Southern California). But due to the nature of celebrity I find sometimes people don't understand that, and just jump to conclusions that no one could possibly have any such associations unless they were equally famous. They don't get the concept that it's a business composed of "talent" people and "business" people, who all work together and live together in the community. Of course, those people have relatives and friends just like anyone else does. So there really is nothing strange about the fact that someone would inevitably under such circumstances have had various kinds of relationships with celebrities, and work and involvement with the industry or likewise with aerospace.

For example there, my father taught me to fly a plane when I was 5 years old. I didn't do it solo, but I did do it. My brother also did, as did several children of the other Air Force jet fighter pilot dads we knew. In that era, it wasn't all that strange. My father was considered for the astronaut program at NASA and again, this isn't "magical thinking" on my part; just like now, NASA receives tons of applications and evaluates them and picks people, often those with the exact qualifications my father had. So again, there really is no basis to jump to a conclusion that I made such things up. Obviously out of all those thousands of applicants, some of them have children, and thus their life stories will include the fact that mom or dad was considered for an astronaut position at NASA. Fact, not fiction, not so off-the-wall that it is "magical thinking".

My dilemma is how to address this issue with the therapist. We just got started, but now I feel like if she can't believe these facts about my life, she certainly isn't going to believe some of the stranger (but true) facts. Hey not everyone has lived a textbook utterly average life. Isn't that exactly HOW people end up with PTSD, because their life experiences are not normal?

I'm worried that she won't be able to help me or diagnose me effectively if she's not accepting the true foundation where I came from and who I am. That's where we have to start from but if she thinks that's false, I already now feel hopeless about therapy at all.

Have you tried other therapists? Perhaps this one is just not the one for you.

That would bother me as well. If you like the T and would want to stick with her, you can confront her about it. You could also look for someone else. As stopdog said, this one might not be the right fit.

I think it's important to tell her what you've written here. Some therapists are able to easily adjust to new information and make amends. If this one isn't open to updating their understanding, you can find someone better. "Magical thinking" would be for the therapist to think they have your life story figured out so early in the process.

Goldwave-Welcome to PC. I had a long tale of family intrigue with "guvment" stuff that I wanted to tell my T. In anticipation I invited her "for this month only" to look at Facebook which I left open to public and go ahead Google family member names x y z. Then she could somewhat verify basic facts like geography, security clearances, and employment. She presumably did, because she was receptive to the story that unfolded, without doubting me. However, extreme backstories can be stressful to therapists even when they come to believe. They are still people and may be inclined to paranoia themselves. I love that you refer to magical thinking. I presented the same to my T (now ex-T) and schooled her in its family origins.

I would look for a different therapist, one who is capable of understanding that there are many subcultures in life that seem fantastic and imaginary to mainstream culture. With therapists, I take in as much evidence as I can, and I explain that I know that much of it sounds too bizarre to be real, but if they don't believe me there is no point in going back.

As for the entertainment industry, it's shocking that someone would not understand that it's an entire ecosystem of its own, touching lives at every level. I was a housecleaner in Malibu, and I won't even mention the names of people because it sounds unbelievable; but honestly, everyone has toilets that need to be cleaned, even hollywood legends. I can imagine if your family was involved in the business end, that those people would be a regular part of your life.

Do you have OCD? I ask because "Magical thinking" is a symptom of that and doesn't mean you're making up your past. It means that you think your thoughts cause things to happen. For example, you are thinking angry thoughts about someone and then you worry that your thoughts will cause something bad to happen to them. Or, because you don't keep your house tidy enough, something bad will happen. (I have OCD, and this was one of my symptoms as a child, less so now, which is why I know this.)

Magical thinking. Most common in children and adults with obsessive-compulsive disorder, but seen in people with bipolar disorders as well. Magical thinkers come to believe that by doing some sort of ritual they can avoid harm to themselves or others. The ritual may or may not be connected with the perceived harm, and sufferers tend to keep their rituals secret. Children are not always sure what harm the ritual is fending off; they may simply report knowing that “something bad will happen” if they don’t touch each slat of the fence or make sure their footsteps end on an even number. Others may come to feel that ritual behavior will bring about some positive event.

Identifying Irrational Thoughts | Psych Central

I was wondering, too, if you have a misunderstanding of the term "magical thinking."

Isn't Magical thinking more broad? Includes attributing cause and effect mythically, not just that doing X behavior will prevent Y outcome, but suffering harm will result in punishment of person causing harm?

Anyway Ruh Roh is right. Just living in SoCal puts you in the vicinity of remarkable experiences, places and people. It sounds outlandish to people in other parts of the country, including therapists.

If you have just started I'd be wary of her putting labels on so quickly. Just to be sure you are on the same wave length I'd ask her about that and if she is just giving herself a note to watch how it develops or if she's already decided. if she finds it so hard to relate perhaps then you might talk to her about continuing this relationship.

One thing to do is just to say you read your medical records, saw that she had noted "magical thinking," and want her to explain more what she meant by that.

I agree. Time for some communication with the therapist to see exactly what was meant by those statements. Could be misinterpreting the notes.

I would look for a therapist that has had a broader background or has lived in the area you did. I had a similar sort of upbringing but my therapist did too so did not have as much trouble understanding me.

People who don't have similar experiences as you might think you make stuff up. The trick I think is to find t with somewhat similar experience, my t also immigrated to the U.S. And also saw and did similar things as me. So we discuss things others wouldn't have a clue about. My family had some experiences that would fit to be in a novel

. I won't share on here but it is rather unusual. What I have learned over the years is that I do not share with people who might think it's made up.

Why does your t even need to know about airplanes or astronauts . Unless it's relevant to your therapy

But if it is important do look for t who can relate

I also agree with others that magical thinking isn't necessarily a lie. I'd ask what she meant

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magical thinking doesn't really mean that you are making things up. i have magical thinking pretty bad. it's basically what LonesomeTonight posted. maybe you are confusing this term with delusions of grandeur, which sounds more like what you described given your status

I have magical thinking at times too but I don't make stuff up

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Thanks; I'm so new to this, I was unsure if I was being overly sensitive and that these kinds of things are typical and get worked out over time or whatever. I noticed on these forums that many people have stated that they needed to try several therapists to get the right fit, so I will definitely consider your comment!

Thanks; I wasn't sure about discussing it with her as in some ways I'm worried that by having access to my records/her notes, this stifles her side of the process. I am pretty sure (knowing how I am) that I will bring it up and try to clarify things to her.

I hear you LindaLu; I have things like that in my family's background too, and the little I already told her she has already assigned to paranoid assumption that the CIA is hounding a relative....actually it was the DEA and it was definitely true. One of the problems as you know with that kind of thing is you can't necessarily bring forward the other individuals who can support the veracity of your situation, because they often cannot or will not do so based on what they do and their own fears for their families etc.

I absolutely realize that some mental illnesses have these kinds of manifestations, but as you point out, there ARE people who have worked in the military, law enforcement, government, and there ARE people who have relatives who have gotten involved in things or gotten into trouble etc. It really can't be automatically assumed such things are fiction, especially if the other elements of the story seem logical (i.e. the person comes from a military town, has military/government connections or work history, someone in the family hung out with questionable groups, etc.).

What is so troubling about this is these are the exact kinds of events one needs to really be able to talk about, because they are so utterly traumatizing and typically extremely destructive in one's life. AND you can't talk about them to friends, and no one believes you anyway. So the very thing you need a therapist for, they can jump to a conclusion that you are making it all up. Frustrating....

It's great to hear from someone who understands what I mean about how the industry works! As you know, it seems perfectly normal to us. We're used to celebrities in the community, and thinking nothing of it as if they were just anyone else. Because that truly is what they are, just people.

I haven't been diagnosed with OCD, but I'm sure I fall into the category of someone who engages in magical thinking.

As to the examples you wrote about, I think I view issues like that as karmic. For example, if I have angry thoughts about someone, I wouldn't think my thoughts themselves are retalitory. But the act committed by the person who angered me I might think could attract a karmic retaliation. So that I think constitutes a magical thought. I tend to believe in karma and reincarnation, however I'm not entirely sure, so I'm unsure say what percentage of belief I would be able to assign to such things. I have doubts but generally think they are possible.

For something like household disarray, which I can definitely relate to, as my rooms are a mess due to my physical ailments, I feel something bad can happen not because of a character flaw of being messy (I can't help it, after all) but because the mess itself constitutes a hazard. For example, nearly tripping over a pile of laundry. It's also definitely depressing to be in such an environment, and that is thus causing something bad to happen to you emotionally. So I can see from a certain perspective that as "punishment" for being messy?

I'm glad to hear you have less OCD now than in childhood; it's always great to know that people have been successful at improving themselves, good inspiration!

I'm not sure how I fall in relation to OCD in that sense. I'm not superstitious really, but for example I do pray to God and believe this has been beneficial to me. Growing up in a generally Christian family and culture, that kind of thinking was acceptable and not considered "magical" but "factual", however I see from a therapy-type perspective it would be the same as magical thinking, wouldn't it?

But I don't think I have OCD as I understand it, as I don't seem to have any I guess you'd say ritual practices as you describe. I actually enjoy rituals but honestly I've always been too loose and responsive to the moment to force myself to engage in rigid rituals. I like them for the mental atmosphere and focus they offer. For example, I do try to remember to say "grace" before I eat. But I don't feel like something bad will happen if I don't. It's more to re-focus myself to a state of gratitude, realizing that many people don't have food. It helps to limit my self-pitying.

I know virtually nothing about OCD but I'm interested in this ritual-practice aspect, as it seems to tie into a lot of things I've encountered in studying anthropology and theology. It sounds like the ritual serves as sort of a placebo, and that certainly has been a very common approach to dealing with issues for humankind as far as we can tell, across many cultures. I can see the problem though if you feel that not doing the ritual is hazardous in itself.

That is certainly possible and I'd say likely. I'm completely new to this.

Yes, I tend to forget that people who aren't from L.A. don't immediately get the idea of the industry. However, the industry makes it that way on purpose after all. They are the ones using the media to create that dazzling influence which they are marketing.