Who's the gal who was going back to her old T?

precaryous · Feb 07, 2016, 10:58 AM

JD, do you know or-even suspect -whether the Pdoc in your case had other victims, too?

rainbow8 · Feb 07, 2016, 11:02 AM

I totally agree that these Ts who take advantage of clients are unethical and should be reported. They should lose their licenses at the very least, and maybe imprisoned. The worst part is taking advantage of those who are vulnerable and looking for love. I was thinking about it, and if my T were one of those abusers, but I didn't know it, I would probably go along with it. The attachment to my T, even now, would stop me from thinking logically. It's scary, so I totally understand the difficulty of pulling away.

junkDNA · Feb 07, 2016, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by precaryous

JD, do you know or-even suspect -whether the Pdoc in your case had other victims, too?

I don't know for sure... I am afraid there might have been others. But there is no way to tell. I feel so much empathy for others that have gone through this or are going through it currently. And I also realize how hard it is to be talked out of it.

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Feb 07, 2016, 11:06 AM

Quote:

The medical board revoked his license in one state, but I searched and found he still had an active license in NY. I contacted them, sent them info about his revocation.....and they revoked his license, too.

Quote:

I turned him into Medicare and Medicaid. They sanctioned him- they would not let him be a Medicare or Medicaid provider.

I took it as far as I could...legally.

You are a very brave and courageous woman, Precaryous. JunkDNA, you too. My heart goes out to both of you.

Feb 07, 2016, 11:11 AM

I think JunkDNA and Precaryous are exceptionally brave for sharing their stories on PC. Perhaps at one time I might have gone along with it if T1 had been the sort to take advantage, but my eyes were opened by reading those stories. JD and Pre may have prevented any number of instances of abuse through telling their story here and they should be very proud.
So thank you both.

precaryous · Feb 07, 2016, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966

He is definitely going exact same thing with others. Making social comments and looking at pics etc it could be the others resist and drop him but you keep coming back. It probably excites him. He is sick. I'd directly ask him what he gets out of looking at your naked pics and if he does it others.

I think so too. Good questions!
Winenot, what is he telling you..what reasons does he give you to convince you that his looking at your naked pictures is Ok?
I wonder.

Winenot, once he became eager to look at your naked pictures..there is no more therapy. Is he still taking your money or billing insurance for therapy? Is he still trying to be your therapist?

I've said it befor and I'll say it again- for me, therapy stopped when he helped me undo my buttons...

After our sessions became sexual, I stopped telling him about my genuine issues. I couldn't. I was afraid if I told him, "well, I sh yesterday.." ..or how depressed I was..or if I lost time... I wouldn't tell him genuine issues because I feared he wouldnt continue the relationship if I appeared too "sick."

Sessions became all about superficial things...or they centered around discussing the sex we'd had....when it would happen again..if it would happen again...planning where it might happen again...why had it stopped. One of the explaination he gave me- he told me he had a heart condition. He even showed me his bottle of heart meds. I read the bottle noticing he was prescribing them to himself...and he snatched the bottle out of my hands. I tried to explain to him there are other ways for us to express affection to each other if he was too ill to have sex. Naive idiot that I was, I sat in my car in the parking lot and cried
for him.

Winenot, what are you getting out of seeing him? Do you know if he is out of bounds with any of his other clients? He probably is, you know.

Do you care for him? Do you wonder if you two are going to be partners?

I hope you begin to care about yourself and stop seeing him.
If you care for him, you will stop seeing him. It can't end well.

Feb 07, 2016, 12:07 PM

Interresting reading this thread. I remember not to long ago, when someone on PC had a Stanford therapist, and she herself was training to be a therapist when the therapist sent her nude pics of himself. Not a word against what he was doing was said.

I used to bring PC to therapy with me and show documented proof that the profession was messed up, and she would soon mess up by me. She agreed the profession was a barrel of bad apples, and it was difficult to find a good one. Down the road, I presented a specific case with documentation to her be cause the person asked me. She agreed the therapist was rotten to the core...the client couldn't break away, but she did say that the client could use this awful therapy to move forward and help her heal.

Winenot, I'm hoping you can stay ahead of the game, and heal. I cannot make any judgements on another's process.

Question: didn't your roommate use to use the same therapist?

Sending you strength.

Feb 07, 2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkedthatroad

Interresting reading this thread. I remember not to long ago, when someone on PC had a Stanford therapist, and she herself was training to be a therapist when the therapist sent her nude pics of himself. Not a word against what he was doing was said.

That's not true. I remember some very negative comments....actually I've just found the thread and there are lots of comments saying that is inappropriate and concerning (including one from me).

*that's assuming we're talking about the same thread.

Feb 07, 2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

That's not true. I remember some very negative comments....actually I've just found the thread and there are lots of comments saying that is inappropriate and concerning (including one from me).

*that's assuming we're talking about the same thread.

Could be. I did try to search for it.

Feb 07, 2016, 01:25 PM

Not sure if posting it is against community guidelines or something...I suppose mods can remove it if it is.
http://forums.psychcentral.com/psych...er-issues.html
I think people reacted in somewhat stronger terms on this thread as winenot appears in a more vulnerable position than the OP of the other thread. But people did say it sounded like grooming etc, the warning against it was almost universal.

Feb 07, 2016, 01:54 PM

Thanks EM. for the link. I should not have said, "Not a word against..." But I do believe the comments to that poster, and the comments to winenot3 are on different ends of the scale, including winenot3's previous threads regarding her therapist dubious nature. Very little mention of legal action or even leaving the therapist to the other poster.

But I do know that ever since winenot3 posted way back when was she needed to run for the hills and report this guy. I'm not saying any post is right nor wrong. I just noted what was stood out to me, though I conveyed it in a careless way. There are no absolutes..

Feb 07, 2016, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkedthatroad

Thanks EM. for the link. I should not have said, "Not a word against..." But I do believe the comments to that poster, and the comments to winenot3 are on different ends of the scale, including winenot3's previous threads regarding her therapist dubious nature. Very little mention of legal action or even leaving the therapist to the other poster.

But I do know that ever since winenot3 posted way back when was she needed to run for the hills and report this guy. I'm not saying any post is right nor wrong. I just noted what was stood out to me, though I conveyed it in a careless way. There are no absolutes..

Yes I agree. Any type of sexual behaviour towards a client is unacceptable at any time. I think both the OP of this thread and the other thread should have left their therapists and quite possibly reported. There's nothing therapeutic about it and it is potentially very damaging.

Feb 07, 2016, 03:38 PM

Even if we don't mention ethical considerations.... The thought that came to my mind reading through this thread: I think these kinds of relationships with a therapist are akin to an addiction. Or perhaps they are an addiction, with the client being the addict and the provider the drug dealer (with their own serious issues and vicious cycles). I would approach it that way and would try to treat it that way. I did not experience this in therapy but did in a relationship with a mentor when I was much younger, and then other relationships also later. It is exactly like that: getting hooked on a fantasy, which of course becomes even much more powerful when triggered and fed by the other person. For some people it may turn very devastating and destructive quickly, for others (like myself in the past) it can go on for a long time and cause just increasingly deeper distortions. Also contribute to a transference patterns that will become harder and harder to break. I don't want to suggest a solution as I believe there isn't an easy one in these cases when we are in the midst of it (obviously), but wanted to make this observation.

ruh roh · Feb 07, 2016, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

Not sure if posting it is against community guidelines or something...I suppose mods can remove it if it is.
http://forums.psychcentral.com/psych...er-issues.html
I think people reacted in somewhat stronger terms on this thread as winenot appears in a more vulnerable position than the OP of the other thread. But people did say it sounded like grooming etc, the warning against it was almost universal.

I remember that thread very clearly. It's very surprising that someone would characterize that as though no one spoke against it. Perception is so fragile.

Hopelesspoppy · Feb 07, 2016, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winenot3

I'm here. I did go back to see him, and have been since August. I've done a lot of changing (I feel) in that time apart from him, and even since I've been back, to now. I'm not sure how much, if any, I would contribute to him. I see him because I want to. Because I get something out of it, and he knows this. I've long since stopped wanting or wishing he was anyone than what he is. Which also has put me in a more realistic mindset.

So, it didn't surprise me when things finally turned a different page. I had signed up for a site where you post erotic-type photos (I have a couple of reasons for doing this, and don't feel like going into it). But I mentioned it to him, and he asked to see it. I even told him there were nudes, but he was like, "Yeah, I've seen plenty of tits before, nothing new." So I showed him. He said I looked good, but honestly didn't seem that excited or even into it at all. He sat and analyzed every single photo and even my profile and some of the friends on there. It was fun to have his opinion.

I went back the other night, and, lo and behold, he wanted to see more pictures, but interestingly enough asked in a way in which he didn't appear to be asking (but actually was, because I'm smart and can read between the lines). So, then I asked, "Did you want to see more?" I let him see more. I see where this could possibly be going...I'm not dumb. I'm sure there was a part of me that was hoping this would happen, but I also realize that this is just an easy way to get his rocks off without much effort on his part, and that in no way should I consider it flattering or even validating. And you know what? It's almost not. It's almost insulting. I can't even decide how I feel. There were definitely a couple of times where I could have made a move, and I chickened out completely.

I already know what everyone is going to say to this, so I'm hesitant to even write about it. I know it's wrong. I'm not sure how much I'm even still jazzed by him. I run my own sessions now, so a lot of the time we just end up debating about topics and whatever, which is nice, because I don't have anyone to do that with. I guess I'll just ride this train until it dies. I probably sound insane, but oh well. I'm just exploring. At least I'm not crying or depressed about it anymore. I'm actually really glad to say that. I'm doing pretty well in all of my non-therapy related life. My family and friends have all been proud of my change and in attitude. I really do try. I'm just not perfect, and that's okay, too.

This is going to sound harsh. You are delusional. You made conscious changes to your attitude and behavior that you desperately hoped would make you appear empowered and in control. I am sure you walk the walk and talk the talk sufficiently to convince your family and friends, but can you honestly say, from the depths of your heart, that you are any less scared and insecure than you did when this creep started preying on you?
You say you are in the driver's seat. You aren't. He knows that you haven't really changed. You think that showing him suggestive photos of yourself has any purpose other than for him to pretend that there is therapeutic value? Really? We wants to assure you that he has learned a lesson in the interim; so he's adjusted his strategy accordingly. I believe you when you say you are smart, so am I; but that makes us no less vulnerable to abuse, we just keep them more on their toes. That is all that our smarts can do for us.
In terms of relationships in general, what s he modeling for you? Because those are the scars you will bear, traumatizing and excruciatingly painful. They will affect every potentially healthy relationship you will ever have, until (if you are lucky) you take the serious time and commitment to be "exorcised" of the poison he has injected you with.
I have been through all that you describe (details are different, but it is essentially the same story). FOR OVER 15 YEARS. It is a horrible, lonely existence of shame and self-loathing. The only relief I have had thus far is that I know he can't hurt me anymore.
I sincerely hope that you will continue to ask questions and research the therapist abuse forums that are all over the internet. You believe yourself to be "special" to him. So have we all....

divine1966 · Feb 07, 2016, 07:03 PM

Most certainly nothing in his actions are making anyone feel special. I don't see how looking at naked pics of a woman is intended to make her feel special. What's he is doing is degrading. I can't believe he gets away with it. It is criminal what's he doing, preying on vulnerable women.

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missbella · Feb 07, 2016, 07:30 PM

Everything Winenot describes strikes me as sexual. I don't think it matters if a line has been crossed to actual sex.

I don't see how this foreplay has any relationship to therapy. It's certainly recreation, but I don't see how it meets any criteria for improving life. It only seems a formula for forbidden longing and misery.

The only accomplishment I see here is inferring with finding the real deal--a real relationship with a real person. I get angry when I read about this guy.

And PS., case studies I've read often end with the therapist getting a belated attack of cough, "ethics" and cutting off the client--cold. It's hell on the lover/client/dumpee from every conceivable angle.

precaryous · Feb 07, 2016, 09:06 PM

Winenot, do you know any of this guy's other clients? Is he being inappropriate with them, too?

If he's not worth the effort to report him, why don't you just stop seeing him? You can find a new therapist and discuss Politics, current events, whatever...with them...

It is unlikely this "T" is helping you progress with any issues you brought to therapy. He has certainly given you more issues to work through.

"First, do no harm..." I don't know if he's an MD or not but he still has an ethics board to report to. The Hypocratic Oath, for instance, says, "Do no harm." It doesn't say practitioners guarrantee to cure clients. It says, in essence, just take care and try not to hurt anyone.

It doesn't matter if your experience is not identical to mine...or others. The fact is, he is hurting you. He is giving you so many more issues and wounds than you started with. And you are paying him to DO that.

Plus, he KNOWS he is behaving unethically. He KNOWS he is hurting you. He very likely is hurting other clients.

You are worth more than that! You can use your time and money to seek help for yourself. Please stop going to him.

10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winenot3

I'm here. I did go back to see him, and have been since August. I've done a lot of changing (I feel) in that time apart from him, and even since I've been back, to now. I'm not sure how much, if any, I would contribute to him. I see him because I want to. Because I get something out of it, and he knows this. I've long since stopped wanting or wishing he was anyone than what he is. Which also has put me in a more realistic mindset.

So, it didn't surprise me when things finally turned a different page. I had signed up for a site where you post erotic-type photos (I have a couple of reasons for doing this, and don't feel like going into it). But I mentioned it to him, and he asked to see it. I even told him there were nudes, but he was like, "Yeah, I've seen plenty of tits before, nothing new." So I showed him. He said I looked good, but honestly didn't seem that excited or even into it at all. He sat and analyzed every single photo and even my profile and some of the friends on there. It was fun to have his opinion.

I went back the other night, and, lo and behold, he wanted to see more pictures, but interestingly enough asked in a way in which he didn't appear to be asking (but actually was, because I'm smart and can read between the lines). So, then I asked, "Did you want to see more?" I let him see more. I see where this could possibly be going...I'm not dumb. I'm sure there was a part of me that was hoping this would happen, but I also realize that this is just an easy way to get his rocks off without much effort on his part, and that in no way should I consider it flattering or even validating. And you know what? It's almost not. It's almost insulting. I can't even decide how I feel. There were definitely a couple of times where I could have made a move, and I chickened out completely.

I already know what everyone is going to say to this, so I'm hesitant to even write about it. I know it's wrong. I'm not sure how much I'm even still jazzed by him. I run my own sessions now, so a lot of the time we just end up debating about topics and whatever, which is nice, because I don't have anyone to do that with. I guess I'll just ride this train until it dies. I probably sound insane, but oh well. I'm just exploring. At least I'm not crying or depressed about it anymore. I'm actually really glad to say that. I'm doing pretty well in all of my non-therapy related life. My family and friends have all been proud of my change and in attitude. I really do try. I'm just not perfect, and that's okay, too.

I hope responding here has NOT set you back. I wish you well.

Feb 08, 2016, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by precaryous

Winenot, do you know any of this guy's other clients? Is he being inappropriate with them, too?

If he's not worth the effort to report him, why don't you just stop seeing him? You can find a new therapist and discuss Politics, current events, whatever...with them...

It is unlikely this "T" is helping you progress with any issues you brought to therapy. He has certainly given you more issues to work through.

"First, do no harm..." I don't know if he's an MD or not but he still has an ethics board to report to. The Hypocratic Oath, for instance, says, "Do no harm." It doesn't say practitioners guarrantee to cure clients. It says, in essence, just take care and try not to hurt anyone.

It doesn't matter if your experience is not identical to mine...or others. The fact is, he is hurting you. He is giving you so many more issues and wounds than you started with. And you are paying him to DO that.

Plus, he KNOWS he is behaving unethically. He KNOWS he is hurting you. He very likely is hurting other clients.

You are worth more than that! You can use your time and money to seek help for yourself. Please stop going to him.

He sees my roommate (not on a regular basis). But he's never done anything even remotely weird with her. I think I told her I shared some piece of sexual information about myself once, and all she said was, "You told him that???" She doesn't over-share like I do. She seems to think he's brilliant and great, and was even the one that recommended I see him in the first place. A lot of people love him in my town.

I think it's difficult because I've been seeing him for three years. I did have another therapist I was seeing for awhile in between, but stopped going because all it did was make me long for the stronger connection I had before with the current one I'm seeing. I guess it's hard to complain about all of this when I'm the one that was pushing for it in the first place! And we still don't actually know how far he would even take it. For all we know, these pictures are it.

JaneTennison1 · Feb 08, 2016, 11:38 AM

The pictures alone are enough. It doesn't matter how nice he is to everyone else whenb what he is doing amounts to theraputic abuse. I'm so sorry you are in this, I hear you putting the blame on you and it hurts because it is ALL him.

divine1966 · Feb 08, 2016, 11:43 AM

Well you don't know if it is just you he is doing it with. Or maybe it is just you because others would have a reaction like your roommate? . It doesn't excuse it though, the fact that you over share doesn't make it ok for him to indulge

None of it is your fault. He is licensed professional here

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JaneTennison1 · Feb 08, 2016, 11:48 AM

Trigger Warning :

You could walk into therapy naked and ask him to have sex with you and it is literally his JOB to say no. It is not hard not to take advantage of a vulnerable person. It is not hard to say no to someone you can hurt and even if it were difficult then who cares? That is his job, it's why you pay him, he has NO right to you.

It's ok if you use sexual language, show him pics, act out scenarios in which other people took advantage of you because it is you who is the client and you are the one needing help.

He may be a great therapist for 10000 other people but what he is doing to you is disgusting and not your fault. You didn't make him act this way. His JOB is to know better and the fact he doesn't speaks badly of him and not of you.

Feb 08, 2016, 12:43 PM

Please read JaneTennison1's post numerous times! She is spot on with what she has said.

I do understand feeling as though you need this attention from him; in a way, he's cultivated that kind of relationship with you from the beginning. He's the professional, he's the one who should be helping you discover what it is you need and want from others, not taking what you're offering him in such a vulnerable state. Therapy is about discovering healthy boundaries, not breaking down a person's boundaries and leaving her defenseless. Yes, being honest and forthright with your therapist about hard subjects is important, but there is still something sleazy and abusive in the way he is handling your offering of sexual information about yourself and relationships. It's exploitive and doesn't sound helpful or healing.

Would you ever consider talking to a consulting therapist about what has unfolded between the two of you? He is acting in a totally unprofessional and abusive manner. I'm sorry because I see you taking the blame for all of this on yourself, when he should be losing his license to practice. Please take care of yourself.

missbella · Feb 08, 2016, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

Trigger Warning :

You could walk into therapy naked and ask him to have sex with you and it is literally his JOB to say no. It is not hard not to take advantage of a vulnerable person. It is not hard to say no to someone you can hurt and even if it were difficult then who cares? That is his job, it's why you pay him, he has NO right to you.

Those are almost the exact words someone at TELL used. Responsibility is solely on the therapist.

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