T's Inconsistency

My p-doc issued what felt like an ultimatum this past Friday when I'd had a particularly bad week, and it had a very negative effect on me. She was trying to convince me to do a day program--I think the same as intensive outpatient, where it would be like 4 hours a day of therapy/group stuff. It freaked me out so much that I was sobbing and having a panic attack at the same time (usually it's just one or the other). I was asking if I could have some time to decide, and she was saying we should decide within a week and talking about her, my T, and marriage counselor having a conference call with me to make a decision. As my husband put it, it felt very much like a tribunal that was going to decide my fate.

I called my T in a panic later that day, and thankfully, she was willing to work with me on a care plan where I could keep receiving therapy from them and not go into the day program. And convinced my p-doc that it was enough for me (MC agreed with that.) I was kind of scared to go see my p-doc today, but she ended up cancelling due to illness. I was afraid I'd start panicking in her office again, so I'm very sorry she's sick, but am kind of relieved I can wait a bit.

So, yeah, I think, unless someone is in imminent danger of hurting themselves or someone else (like, it's going to happen then), I don't think ultimatums work so well, at least not on some of us. And I would think it would take more than 2 weeks to add structure to your life (and how is a video game structure???).

Neither of you are seeing or treating each other as human. You are saying, be consistent, not human. She is saying, youre just a client whose schedule i can change, not human.

I know many people here see their t as this distant clinician, but thats not the only choice. T is also an opportunity to have a relationship with a real human being, not a "figure". When they fail, its about us, not them.

Yes its a rough patch. But youre howling like shes already gone, because you know she means to go. The rough patch proves it. What would happen if you didnt howl? Are you really as afraid as you sound? I feel like im hearing more math than feeling - nine days, every other week. It sounds like reasoning, not feeling. Move away from the reasoning.

This is exactly what I thought. Over time, I've found with my T that while she may act a bit differently depending on the client, she basically acts as herself, as who she authentically is. There are minor things that I wish were a bit different in the way we interact, but they don't outweigh the good stuff, and I just have to accept who she is, and that she won't be exactly who I want her to be.

The inconsistency in scheduling is one thing, and not a good one. But her inconsistency in her support for you, I suspect, is probably due to her trying to act in a way that does not come naturally to her. That would probably be an ongoing problem.

I'm sorry that you're hurting and that she's not meeting your needs. I hope that you figure out what's best for you.

I disagree with you (what's new though). I do NOT expect my T to be consistent 100% of the time. I said in a previous post on this thread that I understand things happen beyond our control. Getting sick is one of those things. The problem isn't her getting sick. The problem is that she keeps changing my appt time/day. One week it's 4:30pm, then noon, then 4:30pm, this week was supposed to be 1:30pm but she canceled, next week it's Friday at 11am, and then the week after it's back to Wendsday at 1:30pm. I may not work, but I do have a schedule and it's messing me up. And I have told her that I do not do well with 2 weeks btwn sessions.

And I'm not stuck in the rational mind. Actually, I think it's reasonable, but I like rational better :P I definitely feel the feelings. I feel rejected, abandoned, upset, fragile, vulnerable, shocked, frustrated, disappointed. Trust me, I have no problem accessing the emotional mind. In fact, my Ts and Pdoc all want me to work more on the rational.

I get wise mind. It's when the rational and emotional mind is balanced and you can hear that small voice of intuition. I know what that voice is saying, but I don't want to listen to it. It's saying that this is not the T for me. But then I worry. What if she can be more consistent with support and scheduling? Then my gut would tell me she is the right T. So I don't want to listen to that voice if she could change.

And what I'm asking of her is not hard. She can do it and has done it. She has done it a few times naturally, but mostly when I ask her to. And everyone is right: the way I want her to support me is not the normal way she supports her clients. But she also doesn't seem to mind doing it the way I like.

You think I'm expecting the impossible from her and I'm not. I have accepted a lot of her boundaries though I don't necessarily like them. I accept her little flaws and quirks. I'm not looking for perfection. I'm just looking for more consistency.

I'm not howling. I find that offensive. I'm not saying she's already gone. I say I feel abandon, but recognize that she's not actually abandoning me (see wise mind at work there).

And yes I have a real relationship with her, but you cannot compare it to any other relationship on earth which I feel you are doing. It's not a balanced relationship. She has more "power" in some reguards, though I can put a stop to it at any point. She barely, and I mean barely, discloses anything. Whereas I bare my soul to her. So in some sense she is required to be more than a person in a normal relationship. She is the professional. She is the doctor. I am the consumer. I can make demands and I can have expectations for the services she's providing. She should be more consistent. That's something you expect from all professionals. As I said, thing happen, mistakes can be made, but she should then make it her priority to balance things out again. Because that's what therapy is: teaching us to balance our lives. If they can't balance the schedule, the support, and the safety of our 1 hr time every week for a long period of time, then they're not doing their job.

Im sorry the howling was offensive. I ask - beg! - for poetic license. I dont often feel moved to write from my feelings, as if the words are chosen for me and i am just a conduit, but thats how it was here. And i am thinking more of ginsbergs howl - more beatnik cool angst.

So omg what do you do when you cant trust wise mind?? Thats what i see here. Wasnt she just supposed to be interim t anyway? I would have to look at your old posts, but i thought there was some awareness that she might just be the transitional relationship.

Also, i didnt mean to be making absolute statements at the beginning of my post. It was more like - people start to take each other for granted? Youre my h, youre SUPPOSED to give me a ride to the airport. Well its still nice to ask, isnt it? Idk. I am guilty of that with my t, and i was very aware of it when i was unpacking my mothers house with my brother - telling / asking my brother to haul this or that. So just being aware of that.

I did receive an email back from her. She said she would have scheduled a phone check-in, but her personal life isn't allowing her to set time aside (she worded it nicer than that). But she still didn’t offer up much support. And she basically cut off communication until I see her next Friday. She said she's trying her best. Idk. I don’t see how it would be hard to schedule a 15min phone call btwn now and next Friday. It goes back again to being flexible.

I go back to the question though: is it really too much to want and need consistency? To expect it (minus the things beyond our control)? Is it wrong to want this from a T?

Many have said you agree with me. Some have said that it's just the way she is. I really do want her to be my T. If she's consistent with support and scheduling, she's a great T. And she has already helped me a lot. I also don't want to go through the process of T shopping. It's difficult on me emotionally and mentally (due to the social anxiety). I know she doesn't normally support her other clients the way I want to be supported. But she has been very willing to make an effort to do it when I ask. That's got to say a lot.

Do I wait for her to get used to supporting me in the way that helps me? Do I give up, say she'll never change? Do I sacrifice what I need and just stick with her?

This is so hard for me. I don't know what to do. If it was impossible for her to be supportive of me in the way I need, I would move on. But it's not impossible! There has to be some hope? And being consistent with the schedule shouldn't be too difficult, right? It never was for any of my past Ts.

I really need her right now. I need that safety net. I need the support and consistency. I'm desperate to find a deeper connection to her. I know it's there. But this back and forth stuff keeps cutting it off. It brings in doubt and mistrust.

Ugh!!!! I don’t need this right now!

My group T was nice though. I wrote him too about all of this. He told me to practice radical acceptance and then use my coping skills to sit through the pain. He then told me we will talk about it in group on Tuesday. At least I have one "structured" thing in my life that is consistent.

Yeah. Btw, how can she want me to get more structure when she's not even providing me structure? Just a thought.

If you expect her to change and fit your support model then you might be disappointed. Yes shee is capable of it but that doesn't mean that is who she is. There is nothing wrong with your needs but pushinbg for them to be met with a person who has to act false to meet them will likely result in someone burning out. My T was late. Yes she was capable of being on time and would try for a few weeks but then fall back to who she was which is someone who is late. I accepted that trait in the end as trying to force a change or being hurt by her lateness got us no where.

I try to ask for everything I want and not just expect that she knows what I want. And I do try my best (though I struggle with it) to give her room for mistakes. I'm really not good with that because I tend to expect perfection from myself and everyone else. I'm learning though. I also make sure I always express my gratitude for things that she has done for me. I don't take her for granted, least I try not to.

She is/was supposed to be my long-term T. She's called it a rebound relationship due to it being right after losing ex-T and having to still have ex-T indirectly in my life for several months. Because of that, we have taken longer to adjust to each other since 75% of the six months have been spent dealing with ex-T. I think we finally ironed out all her boundaries which I have accepted.

We have talked some about termination. Mostly it was preparing for how I would want the termination to go in different scenarios (i.e. if it has to be instant, my ideal termination, etc). But we have also talked about the possibility of an actual termination occurring sooner than later because of the conflict we had a few months back over the ultimatum, and also a few weeks ago due to her changing my schedule. Both discussion of termination didn't turn into an actual agreement of termination though.

(((Scarlet))) i think you and i feel about structure, like the scene in annie hall where its a side by side shot of their two shrinks asking diane keaton and woody allen how often they have sex, and diane says "all the time! Like 3 times a week!" And woody says "hardly ever! Like 3 times a week!" I find structure stifling and try not to notice it. Im always surprised when you say we disagree because i think we DO agree at heart, but i cant explain it. Like we are BOTH hurt by extremes in structure. It has to be just right?

Also I see that there are lots of things you need but that doesn't mean she is the right person to meet those needs.

I go back to the question though: is it really too much to want and need consistency? To expect it (minus the things beyond our control)? Is it wrong to want this from a T?

No, it's not. My T won't even change her hair color like she wants to because it wouldn't be consistent for her clients. She might take consistency a little too extreme at times but it is validating, reassuring, and comforting to have the same 'routine' if you will.

Do I wait for her to get used to supporting me in the way that helps me? Do I give up, say she'll never change? Do I sacrifice what I need and just stick with her?

That's up to you, but at the same time she is who she is as a person and while it's good she's 'consistently inconsistent it's detrimental to you (as I see). You shouldn't have to sacrifice what you need when you're in therapy to get what you need... sounds a little counterproductive.

And being consistent with the schedule shouldn't be too difficult, right? It never was for any of my past Ts.

Have you had a blunt conversation about the scheduling issues and asked for a time slot to be yours because you need that consistency?

Ugh!!!! I don’t need this right now!

No, you don't.

Btw, how can she want me to get more structure when she's not even providing me structure? Just a thought.

Maybe make that part of the conversation. It's like a 'parent' (word used lightly) with conflicting rules and regulations - it's complicated and confusing for them to do one way and say but expect you to be okay with the other.

I have asked for a time slot that's just mine. I did that on the first session when she double booked my appointment. Originally, I had Wednesday at 4:30pm which was perfect. I would leave for therapy the same time my fiance left for work, and right after therapy I would have dinner with my mom. But she changed my time to fit in people who worked and wanted later appointments. So now my slot is supposed to be Wednesday at 1:30pm. But she's sick this week, and next week she decided to go to a conference on Wednesday.

Consistency is not too much to ask. Lots of us really need that to feel safe and get in to the groove of therapy. I imagine there are some people, with different issues, where consistency may not be that important - but for a lot of people it really is a basic requirement, in my opinion.

Forgive me if you've already tried this, but could you just flat out tell her at the next session, "Look... constantly changing appointment times is causing me a lot of unnecessary stress. Can we take a look at your schedule, and see if we can come up with a standing appointment time for me that is not likely to get shuffled around?" She may say that she can't guarantee anything, and that's fine, you can remind her that you understand that emergencies happen, and you're not looking for 100%. You just trying to get a solid time that has, say an 85%-90% chance of staying the same, rather than the 30% chance that currently seems to exist.

You deserve better. I hope you guys can work this out.

I think that how she shows support is a tougher issue. If what you're asking her to do is unnatural for her, as others have said, she may always revert back to her "native language" so to speak. I think this could be a deal-breaker. Just from reading here, it seems like we all have our own level of "warm and fuzzy" (versus "stay back and be respectful") that we need, and I don't think it's easy, even for Ts, to change their natural ways of expressing this.

You really do deserve better. But we all do. I'm sure being a T is hard work, but trying to work with them is not exactly easy either...

Edit: Sorry, I was writing while you were posting the last post, saying that you already asked for a standing appointment time. I didn't see that.

Is consistency too much to ask for?

No, it isn't.

I used to work in payroll. I did payroll for small businesses. I had a set group of clients that I worked with and payroll was either a scheduled phone call, email, etc. If one of my clients was asking themselves, "Is consistency too much to ask?" everyone would scream "HELL NO!" because no one likes their pay checks not showing up on time.

I worked with the same clients week after week, month after month. No matter how erratic some of them were (and oh, I have stories), I was consistent. Things happened, sure, but they were the exception, not the norm.

She's unlikely to change. What it sounds like is that she has a deficiency in time management. With everything that's happened, I think you have to ask yourself is waiting for the "good sessions" worth enduring the inconsistency? For me it wouldn't be. I need to know that my T is going to be where he says he's going to be. We have a real relationship *and* I am also paying for a service that I need. Therefore, I expect him to honor our relationship and thereby to respect me.

Not everyone has those same values, I get that, but because I have them, I personally aren't going to waste time on someone who is unlikely to change.

Huh, you know I had a T that did this to me. Every once in a while I would show up and there would be a note on her door that she had something else going on, or she would reschedule me at the last minute with an email or something. My sessions were getting paid through the local disability rehabilitation resources, so maybe the fact that I seem healthier than most of her subjects on the surface combined with lack of a decent charge for her services made her more cavalier about meeting up with me, I don't know. After the third time she pulled that crap, I got a flat tire on top of showing up to an appt that I didn't know wasn't happening. I just stopped going. I never felt like she understood what my problem was when I attempted to explain that I knew what was wrong with me, I just didn't know how to work around myself to get to a more stable emotional place. She straight up wondered to my face why I was even in CBT. She reported me to the disability services as being fine, and they couldn't authorize payments for more therapy, so I just stopped caring. I hope she didn't charge them for those final three appts that she never showed up for, but I'm not willing to deal with that level of nonsense. If you aren't able to communicate with her about upsetting her behavior, if you are able find another T.

She didn't do it She didn't even write me a supportive email. And she won't because it's 5pm on Friday. She won't do anything work related until Monday. She rejected me. She abandoned me for the week.

Is it possible she's just sick?

Okay, so what I don't like about this is how could she change your time? How did she get you to agree to it? Because she either needed your permission to make the change or she insisted on it. It sounds like the latter from your choice of words.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

She didn't ask. She said she needed to change my time so that she could fit in people who work. That because I don’t work, I am more flexible. She said she wanted to help as many people as she can. She let me choose btwn Mondays and Wednesdays. I prefer middle of the week. And fir Wednesdays she let me choose 1:30pm, but she really wanted me at 2:30pm. But I wouldn't have gottento see my fiance at that time. She didn't seem to care.

I didn't want my time changed.

I really feel for you Scarlet. You have been through so much and now still have to deal with a T that is not consistent and is giving you ultimatums. Its up to you to decide if you want to stay with this T or not. I think you deserve better but I am just a random internet stranger.

So much of this is wrong. To me anyway.

Yeah, that's wrong. Your time is your time. Neither of mine schedule clients at the same time every week (this is partly because they both have as their main specialty one of those quickie-therapy alphabet-soup things, so there's a decent turnover rate). That works for me, because I do need them to be flexible, but it would not be everyone's cup of tea.

Out of curiosity, is it mainly appointments and administrative stuff that she's inconsistent on? I know there was the "get a job" ultimatum, but everything else I can think of was organizational. I'm probably forgetting something.

T1 was very inconsistent with apointments and it would make me insecure and even sometimes panicky when he would struggle to fit me in.
With T2 I have the same slot every week and I told T I like that it's my hour and it doesn't change (except very occasionally) , and that I need the consistency. I have a friend who works (I don't) and she's trying to get weekly slots with him and really struggling. I know he wouldn't even consider changing my slot for her or anyone. The fact that your T doesn’t see this as a problem (or understand the potential for triggering abandonment issues) suggests she's not really understanding how to care for you at the moment.
Sorry she's mishandling this; I can empathise with how this kind of inconsistency feels

Ugh, Scarlet, no. No. No. No. No. We do not see therapists who tell us that they are going to move our appointments so they can see other people.

You're picking jerk therapists, I gotta say it. This therapist is not okay, isn't treating you well and if I were the president of the universe, you wouldn't see her.

(I have zero actual control of this situation of course, there was a problem with the paperwork for me becoming president of the universe, so it's all up to you.)

You deserve so much better, and you're clearly not going to get it from this woman. If you keep seeing her, you're going to keep feeling abandoned.

There are nicer, better, more competent therapists in the world. I'd look for one of them.

Consistency is the bedrock of 'good' therapy.