Article: Psychotherapy as a Cult

In regard to this part, do you also have an idea of how you like to improve the system? Like let's say you were the person in charge of the organization and have the money and can make any laws as needed. Or do you believe that it's the nature of the psychotherapy itself that's problematic and we should do away with it all together?

I don't think it's possible to regulate it to be honest. The only thing would be to make the complaints process easier. Also, I think no matter how long you've been in the profession, some kind of peer support/supervision is neccessary. I think it's about the therapist being ethical and competent and caring enough about the client to put the client's safety above everything. I think my therapist loved me at one point, but when her feelings or her life changed, she didn't protect me at all, but cut and ran. But you can't regulate people, so it's hard. I think people don't realize the risks in therapy. Maybe improvement would come from more education. Warning signs? I'm not sure.

I'd like to put my two cents in on this question. I agree with PF that the oversight of therapists (psychologists, MSWs, MHC, Marriage & Family Counselors etc.) are not tough enough in the U.S. I speak only about the U.S. because I'm not familiar with the requirements in other countries.

1) All licensing organizations require continuing education credits, but it's pretty much a total joke regarding what's allowed to meet those requirements. People sit in front of their computer, listen to a four or five hour lecture or go to a one day lecture and then get the certification paper saying that they've attended. Some people sit in those meetings texting, writing their reports or surfing the web, their contempt for being required to go and update their skills obvious. That's not everyone, but it happens. In most cases, there is no post test to find out if people have absorbed anything useful from their CE requirement. Some of the topics that people are allowed to use to fulfill their CE requirements are laughable.

2) With individual therapy techniques (ie. DBT, Mentalizing Therapy, Transference Focused Therapy, EMDR, CBT, psychoanalysis etc.) people can attend a CE workshop or lecture and then claim that they are trained in this technique. These workshops are meant only to INTRODUCE people to the topic, not make them trained experts in the techniques, but people list them on their websites or say they use these techniques in their practice and they aren't formally trained and evaluated in their ability to use the techniques. The training programs that teach these techniques are expensive and very time consuming. The good ones have a lot of requirements for ongoing training and evaluation.

3) The vetting process of potential candidates for study in the different programs is seriously lacking. It's been talked about many times on here that people go into the profession with their own unresolved mental health issues. I'm not saying that someone can't have issues, but they need to have those issues resolved BEFORE ever seeing a client! There is no requirement in most programs that a student actually experience therapy for themselves. I think that's pretty odd. How is it that someone is going to "do therapy" on others and yet has NEVER experienced the process. I guess the thought is that he/she learned about it in class and practiced it on other people so they must know what he/she is doing. U.S. universities and colleges are money making machines; if you have the money and the academic grades/degree, they let you in. Colleges need the money and students sitting in the seats and this often ties professors hands when it comes to deciding whether or not someone is really mentally and emotionally equipped to do the job effectively and without doing harm to clients.

4) All licensing organizations have oversight of their members. There are formal complaint processes in place for clients to use when they have been harmed by the psychotherapy process. But it's a difficult and painful process that is stacked against the client. Yes, some individuals lose their license but in many cases, therapists are given a slap on the wrist and a dictate that they receive supervision with a licensed therapist for a year . . . Guess who they go to for their "supervision"? A friend or colleague who is willing to sign off that they are working in supervision. I'm not saying that everyone does this but the process is not monitored closely enough.

5) In the U.S., once a person is certified, the supervision is no longer mandatory or required. For some degrees, that's as soon as the person walks out the door, having completed his/her practicum and internship. That's tightened up quite a bit and now most programs require that the therapist accumulate so many hours of supervision following completing the program. He/she gets a provisional license and then pays for the supervision (or it's provided by the agency he/she works for). Once the hourly requirement is met, he/she NEVER has to participate in the supervision process again, unless he/she decides on their own that they want to be part of a "peer" supervision group of their choice to discuss their practice. Peer supervision takes time, effort and dedication. If you're building a practice, have a family life/social life outside work, you might decide, "Hey, I know my stuff. I don't need to do that anymore." Wrong! To stay fresh, on track and aware of how easy it is for your own stuff to get tangled up in the client's stuff, it's critical that ongoing supervision be mandatory and monitored.

Whew. Sorry that's so long but it truly is an issue that is near and dear to my heart. I feel that psychotherapy is so fraught with pain and the chance to "do harm" that the profession really needs to tighten things up and make themselves more accountable to the needs of the client. I know there are other issues but that's all I can think of this early in the morning.

Thanks so much Jaybird. I think another leg in the stool is meaningful informed consent. I'm unsure had I understood that my therapy might lead to regression, infantilizing, obsessing, delusional veneration of the therapist, self-pitying and unhealthy self-absorption if I would have gone ahead.

It certainly didn't serve my goals for myself.

I think (this is my personal belief/opinion/idea/whatever) therapy is worse than a cult. I grew up in a cult religion and found that society believes cults are BAD. There is understanding that cults harm people. Society often believes therapy is "good" and not harmful to people. Not sure that makes sense. It's easier to not blame yourself for bad therapy when other people aren't blaming you for it.

That is definitely a valid point.
People tend to think that once you've seen a medical professional any problems you have with the treatment are your own fault. You didn't try, didn't follow instructions, didn't do.whatever.
That makes it much harder on the individual because if things go wrong you aren't just struggling with the individual T but with the whole societal perception of therapy.

1. I don't see how that applies. "Messiah" is a religious-specific term that doesn't have an appropriate analog in therapy. People in cults often believe that they will be literally saved and swept off to heaven because the end of the world is coming. "Swear allegiance" to the leader? I think that bad therapists may insist on contracts or promises or make the client do something in particular, but that isn't the norm and it certainly isn't my experience. My T's have never told me what to do, and have always been very careful to be non judgmental about choices. But then if one chooses a T that operates like a guru (which I think is a better description of bad therapy than cult), YMMV.

2. Nobody is recruited into therapy. Unlike lawyers who advertise on billboard and doctors who advertise on TV and certain religious groups who knock on my door, you have to seek out a therapist, many of whom do not even list their services in online places like psychology today. You have to make an appointment and you have to show up, every time. If you don't, it's unlikely that a T will call you up and even ask why not. Many therapy clients just disappear and T's never hear from them again.

3. i could see, from the stories I've read here, how there is an analog to this in bad therapy. There is a distinction between bad therapists acting like gurus and psychotherapy being a cult. Bad professional behavior does not get attributed to the entire profession, and of course every profession has its bad eggs.

4. Same answer as 3.

5. I haven't heard of anyone's T forcing them into particular life or career decisions. It's difficult to imagine how this could be enforced in 1 hour/week or how the therapist could monitor this (or why they would want to take the time to do this), unlike cults, where members typically live together.

6. Nobody denies bad therapy exists, and yet there are many stories of how therapy helped people, including by people in this thread. I have been helped by therapy. The fact that some people are harmed, just like by bad doctoring or bad lawyering, doesn't make therapy a cult. At least if someone has a bad therapy experience, they don't end up with the wrong leg cut off or spend the rest of their life in prison. On the other hand, I don't think that there are a lot of stories about how cults have saved lives or helped people. Too much drinking the poison Koolaid to make that argument very credible.

7. Clients spend 1 hour a week in therapy, or 2 or maybe 3 at most. That leaves a lot of hours in the week to not be cut off from the outside world or to test reality.

8. Secrecy is not the same as confidentiality. Clients can talk about their therapy all they want, complain to the regulatory boards, file lawsuits. Only the therapist is not permitted to "tell." People are free to stand on the street corner and shout about their bad therapy experiences.

I can't agree psychotherapy is a cult, but I'm all for people talking about their bad experiences in therapy to help themselves. As with selecting any other professional, I think these collective stories help other people who are thinking about going into therapy or may be uncomfortable with where they are in therapy. I've stopped seeing doctors (who I find are more difficult to sift through to find a non-guru than therapists) and other professionals that didn't work for me. I think it's important for people to empower themselves to hire the right professionals for them, including therapists. Don't pick one that acts like a guru, would be my advice. Seek someone who encourages you to find your own voice and change the things you want changed in your life.

Messiah/god complex

The God Complex in Therapy-Counselling

What is MESSIAH COMPLEX? definition of MESSIAH COMPLEX (Psychology Dictionary)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/op...ooks.html?_r=0

messiah complex | Jungian Psychotherapy and Dream Interpretation from the practice of Portland Psychotherapist, Satya Byock

Has no exclusive connection to religion but rather refers to the belief they can save. I believe a lot of therapists have this going on.

I think a reference to "Messiah" does mean something specific in a religious context but one is free to apply it to anyone who acts like a guru if they so choose.

I believe that many therapists have such a complex, whatever you want to call it, or otherwise act like gurus.

That doesn't mean that therapy is a cult, or clients are followers of said cult. That's an illogical leap to me. If that were true, then medicine and law and accounting and dentistry and every profession is a cult.

I would not use the word cult per se, implying a singular monolithic entity. But I've experienced therapeutic relationships that had cult-like qualities or parallel -- therapists luring me in to collude with their delusions of omnipotence and omniscience.

And yes, I've seen variations of this in many contexts that don't relate to therapy--classes, groups, job sites and looser social fabrics where members submit, ,against their best interests, to a charismatic leader.

I believe the mental health industry works very hard "recruit" us. Mine implicitly promised to ease my hurts and help cure my problems. I see any consumer book, blog, article or appearance by them as calculated public relations. It's also interesting to see their website advertising, sometimes rather improbably and extravagantly offering deliverance from distress.

I'm curious about this. Here in the US the most you ever see in an advertisement is "experienced with. Blank issue".
The advertisements often consist of little more than a name,address, phone number and area of practice. I had to individually talk to each T to find out more than that when I was looking. I've never seen any advertisement or any statement by a T in my area suggesting they can "fix" anyone.

Well I'm glad you answered the question Jaybird57, it was quite comprehensive and helpful and I also found it empowering because I feel legitimate issues are brought up by people here and I was hoping someone can have specific recommendations to make improvement, if they feel psychotherapy does enough good to be worth keeping. Thank you.

I think it's also important to not forget that in the US, therapist services are both licensed and governed at the state level--so there is a great deal of variation in how the profession functions according to the location of practice. My state has a fairly active and equitable system in place to govern licensing, board certification, and review. For instance, only additionally certified psychologists are allowed to conduct supervision. I know because my T served on the state examining board for many years. During his tenure he instituted an ethics code of conduct which had never existed before; he also created a voting seat on the board for a consumer advocate--a member of the public with no connection to the therapy profession. Board business is a matter of public record, and info on all actions taken is freely available on-line. But in some other states therapy services may operate with far less transparency.

Cult like qualities of therapy (or any healing sort of thing) is not really like, in my opinion, law or accounting or plumbing. Therapists follow schools of thought - lawyers do not in an active practicing way - you don't have primal scream or tantric law applied to divorces or wills etc.
So the difference to me is that although there may be a family law problem (child custody) -people don't insist that child custody or family law is how to resolve a corporate stock issue. In therapy - clients and therapists can become so enamored of 1 school of thought and want it applied to every issue ("cbt is the greatest thing since sliced bread that is the only kind that works and it will help everyone" -sort of idea)
I have no dog in this fight - I don't particularly see therapy as a cult although I can see how the argument can be made.

But, you do have whatever side of the bed the judge woke up on decisions.

I just saw this. What are "these kinds of threads"?

"These kinds of threads" also have the potential to heighten awareness. If one's therapy is sound and sane, there should be no necessity for such a nervous and aggressive defense of it. I wish I had seen an article or thread like this before I started therapy.

Also, are you suggesting that 'godog' or any poster is not sophisticated or discerning enough to sort out what's what?

"But, you do have whatever side of the bed the judge woke up on decisions."

Then you have appeals. And you don't have closed room meetings with only one other person who can label you and have others believe the label without question.

I am not saying lawyers/plumbers etc don't have to be skilled at arguments or plumbing nor that law or plumbing is free from human error. Or take on only cases they have experience in handling.
I am saying no one tries to sell just one sort of argument and often, in my experience, therapists/clients do.
I will never ever do cbt - there are people who will only do cbt - in law you can't say I have a child custody problem but I will only bring that problem to tax court - that was my point.

Only if you can afford it (appeals). The average person can't, especially in divorce and child custody cases. And, you do get lawyers who are unskilled for the clients they take on. I see that in my own family.

But back to your point. I get it.

Here are some actual snippets from the websites of T's that I have seen. This is just a small sampling.

"new skills, increased self-awareness, insight, help create the life you want"

"help achieve happier and healthier lives"

"learn how to change the way your brain works"

"increase personal insight and change behaviors or beliefs"

"help you live your life to your fullest potential"

This is the kind of thing I thought missbella was referring to. I've seen plenty of statements like this. The only one here that I regard as creepy is the change the way your brain is working one. The rest are pretty standard.

Every time I've read a statement like that, I just roll my eyes and think "therapist-speak" or "what twaddle" or "advertising psycho-jargon." I gather many people take such statements seriously, but notice the emphasis on help in most of them, or gaining personal insight (something the client determines). Except for the change the way your brain is working one I don't think any of these come close to a promise to fix someone on their own behalf.

The problem is not with what is said on the websites. It is what happens behind the office door.

These little snippets are the same advertisements that are flashed at us hundreds of times a week To sell everything under the sun. To me, this does not constitute subliminal advertising from a therapist. I get more of that on PC when they advertise their drugs while I read a thread.

These statements would have meant nothing to me if I was looking for a therapist. But now, having gone through therapy I find a lot of truth in these statements. The Problem is you just have to hook up with the therapist that can deliver, and that doesn't seem easy for some given all the stories we read here.

My brain definitely works differently after this last round of therapy.

I find all these discussions really helpful and informative with points of view , perspectives , knowledge and experience. I recently underwent EMDR - if the guy had said " I CAN change the way your brain works " I might have found that creepy or scary - I don't know. I was open minded and thought I'd give it a go. In my experience it was quite effective and I've been all the better for it.

Wow. I live In a pretty rural area so maybe that's why I haven't seen much of this. Granted also I haven't spent time therapist shopping since 4 years ago and I chose my current T pretty quickly.

I find those advertisements kind of unprofessional for master/PhD level professionals. As a veterinarian I would find it crass if someone said they could "bring your horse to new levels of achievement " or something. A professionals work should be all they need to bring in mor work.

I would reject a therapist with ads like that without even meeting them on the grounds of not taking their work seriously enough

That being said, potato chip ads promise to change the way you see the world these days so hopefully people would be saavy amd not take these to be literal guarantees

There are a few licensed mental health counselors in my area who advertise as healers. One even sells personalized prayers for $25 each.