Bizarre Session, I don't know what happened

Something's gone haywire in therapy. Not sure if it's me, the relationship or what but I'm confused and exhausted.
As some of you may know a couple of weeks ago my first therapist made unsolicited contact with me. Since then I've been feeling quite emotionally sensitive and in last week's session I got quite angry with my current T for not seeming to understand that I just needed him to be be alongside me and validate my feelings rather than intellectualise.
At the beginning of today's session, all seemed to be going well, we talked about last session, me feeling able to express anger, him handling it well, him realising that he hadn't heard what I needed etc. All seems fine so far...
Then I started talking about things that happened in therapy with T1 a little bit and paused. T asked why I paused and I said I thought maybe I was deviating and I should spend more time processing what happened last session. Then it all started getting weird.
T1 said he sometimes wondered whether it was worthwhile talking about T1, or whether it was a cul de sac. I said "would it be worthwhile talking about a family member in a similar situation"? and he said it would, I asked whether he was uncomfortable about it because he is a therapist, and he said maybe.
From this point onwards my memory has lots of blanks. I remember him saying "I don't consider myself a member of your family" and I said "I never said you were, and I never said T1 was, I just think the strength of feeling for T1 is similar to a family member" (but I don't remember why he said that).
I also remember him saying something to me and I don't remember what he said, but my vision was going weird and white, which is something that's happened to me before but not often. I also remember saying something (about T1 I think but can't remember) and him staring at me blankly. I then started feeling that he didn't get it, and I told him that he didn't get it.
He asked me to explain what it was he didn't get, but I couldn't explain because I couldn't remember what had been said. He looked confused and I was confused too.
Then as I left I suddenly felt really clear-headed and happy. I wanted to laugh. It was so weird and I really don't understand it. I do sometimes have memory blanks when I argue with H but this seemed really unsettling and odd for both of us.
Has anyone ever experienced anything like this, or have any insight? I had wondered about dissociation but T didn't seem aware that I hadn't been present, and I don't have a history of dissociation, so I don't know.

I wonder if it would be a good idea and be alright with your T if you could tape your sessions.

(((Echos)))
Why on earth did T1 contact you? I thought that was a serious breech of ethics...

Can you contact your T between sessions? This sounds to me like something you should discuss with him right away, rather than leave it fester til your next session

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Thanks JS. Yeah, I think it was ethically wrong too. Evidently he was curious about how I was getting on. Fine until he turned up actually!

I can contact T if I need to. At the end of the session we did both just say how confused we were about what had occurred, and he said he is seeing his supervisor this afternoon, so I'm hoping that'll help him to make some sense of it from his side. I feel ok at the moment, but it's possibly like a false ok? It feels a bit like my brain has decided that's all I can cope with so I'm going to feel fine now. Like a light switch.

Talking about unsafe things felt to me like walking on the ice falls at everest - not that ive been there, but from what ive read and seen on tv. Like youre walking on jagged edges of ice and your ears get cold! Like you are tiptoeing around in your brain.

Echoes, do you think it might help to write out exactly how you felt and are now feeling and email it to him?

I'm only suggesting this because I know it would help me- I realize it might not be for everyone. If I were in your shoes, I would like my therapist to be able to understand what happened from my perspective, and email would relieve the pressure for me and allow my therapist time to think about it and take it in before he needs to respond.

It sounds good he's talking to his supervisor anyway!

Thanks yes I think that might be useful. I might even use some of the post I originally posted here to help me make sense of it, because it feels like weeks ago, not this morning and I don't even remember it as clearly as I have put it here.

Echos,

it seems to me that you were somewhat overwhelmed, so you involuntarily "checked out" ie you weren't fully present. Happened to me (and still happens) when T and I started to talk about difficult stuff. T explained to me that this is some form of dissociation. Not talking DID here, but if you think of dissociation as some sort of continuum from simple daydreaming to DID - this is somewhere in between.

Kind of a defense mechanism when things get too difficult to handle. Trouble is that it's not always really helpful, not remembering important conversations can kind of backfire...

I know I started doing this as a kid, because I was overwhelmed, couldn't process what was going on, on an emotional but also on a cognitive level. So not registering things was probably one of the few ways I could take care of myself.

It's scary when it happens. I sometimes can't hear what people are saying, or I get a really loud beeping noise in my ears, or my eyes can't focus properly. It never lasts very long, and by now both T and I start noticing early signs so I can do something about it (like grounding exercises etc.).

Also, it happens to me when I'm in a coflict/discussion that I can't avoid. Just having someone argue against my own perspective sometimes feels so threatening, that my psyche somehow decides that it's too dangerous to stay present...

Hope you and your T manage to figure out what happened and why.
Hugs, c_r

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense and is exactly how I experienced it. I think I was waiting for my T to suggest a reason for the confusion and he didn't so that made me kind of think he must not have noticed anything. I suppose it's possible that he did think something and thought that right then wasn't the moment to talk about it. He's very experienced so I think he should be fairly clued up on this type of situation.

It sure sounds like what I experienced as dissociation. And I could "check out" very, very fast. It took a lot of time before I could slow down the process enough to intervene. It does occur to me that when your T said "he wasn't a member of your family" what he may have meant was but he is a member of the "family of Ts," so that may effect his ability to be as objective or non-defensive as he would be otherwise.

I think this is one of those cases where it may be helpful to e-mail that you may have dissociated because you don't have a clear grasp of what was being said, but I don't think I'd discuss further in e-mail--too many chances for missed understanding.

Thank you, I think it must be dissociation, it really does feel like I missed a chunk of the conversation and my vision went very strange too, which seems to be a symptom of dissociation.
I think he really did mean what it sounded like, it seemed like he was trying to make a distinction between a therapist and a family member, which I really don't need and without a good grasp of the context...I'll have to wait till I see him to fill in the blanks.
I emailed earlier asking if he thought I should have an extra appointment, he just replied now and said his instinct is to stick to our regular schedule but he "trusts me as our guide" - which was nice. I just replied, saying what you suggested, that I think I may have experienced mild dissociation, and that we can discuss it more at the next session. It actually feels quite reassuring to hear from him.

I've had to frame, re-frame, discuss, and blog about an unhappy therapy experience for a long time, and still continue to reinterpret events and my participation in them. The experience remains fresher and far more imposing than difficulties with my family and childhood. I also feel my evolution through this process has taught me many "lessons" about myself and life.

I received little help from therapists themselves who only seemed uncomfortable discussing a colleague. One used my sessions to dissuade me against filing a complaint and actually had me repeat after her: "he wasn't a bad therapist; it was a bad match." There was little relevant reading offered from the profession, less for consumers.

Most professional reactions to my experiences and blog are sadly comical, analyzing and diagnosing me, invalidating, making omniscient assumptions about what happened. They convince me that many in the profession are terrified of the topic.

So I'd disagree that revisiting a painful therapy is a cul de sac, quite the opposite. I found peer support my most valuable resource in understanding and validating myself following a harmful therapy experience.
TELL: Therapy Exploitation Link Line

I'm so sorry after the agony of leaving #1 that you have to sort this out. Wishing you peace and comfort.

Thank you missbella. It does feel that he doesn't know how see this from my perspective rather than that of a therapist. You've just reminded me that he did say something like "that might be based on my false assumptions" at one point. In all honesty I think he is trying to understand, and he is a really good therapist, so I don't for one second think we can't work through this, but I know he's struggling to understand it right now.
The truth is, I have received more understanding about what I've gone through as a client from members of this forum than anywhere else. It's like people (outside this forum) are scared of confronting the depth of pain a therapeutic relationship can cause. Part of me wonders if T is a little scared of confronting the impact a therapist can truly have on a client, and face up to the fact it can be as emotionally scarring as a bad family relationship. I imagine that's a difficult truth for someone who deals with clients day in day out.
I'm sorry to hear you had such a series of bad experiences in therapy; I do take great solace in the fact my therapist is at least trying to get it, though we still have a long way to go.

EM-from my admittedly biased observation, and judging from the scarce literature and resources, I suspect that many therapists seem uncomfortable around the topic of harm in therapy. I sometimes find it difficult to "teach" someone about a subject when they have something to protect. Discussion around therapy can be as emotionally fraught and even as nasty as election politics, as evidenced by responses to articles in the NY Times and the Guardian.

I'm glad your therapist is trying to connect with you on this and wish you success. In an ideal world he should. If the topic remains too painful but you otherwise like him, one option is to use him for his strengths and seek other resources around your bad experience.

I have learned tremendously from my bad experience and am still learning. It changed how I see the world, mostly for the good, I think.

You can write these people if you chose. TELL: Therapy Exploitation Link Line
I'm not sure I'd use the words abuse or exploitation for my therapy. (I don't like to use words at all, frankly). TELL helped me feel less crazy and alone.

Again, best to you. I admire your insights and actions through these difficulties.

I've been triggered into dissociation in therapy in situations similar to this. I experience dissociation as a surreal feeling, then my vision goes very bright, then I start to feel really hot, then my ears ring. It usually occurs when my therapist is going on about something I don't want to hear. When she's done I'll realize I've missed most of what she said. Oddly it never happens anywhere else.

I agree with the others that it might be helpful to discuss with your therapist.

"I don't consider myself a member of your family"

This seems like a careless, minimizing thing to say.... IMO. That type of talk would upset me for sure.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. While I am very fond of my therapist, my process is not without some deep injuries and scars.

I've had this happen and, in fact, recently lost most of a session and was so confused and distressed as a result that I saw my therapist the next day for a extra appointment. She believes (for me) that it was a physiological response--a nervous system flood of stress hormones (or something like that)--and that it must have been from something she said (a word or topic) that triggered that kind of response. Neither of us knows what set it off, so it's just something to notice and try to identify.

I do think that therapists get sketchy when they think a client is reacting to them or to something they say. The test is in how they respond to being the focus. Hopefully, yours will prove as steady as he has always been and you will get on track to deciphering what the trigger was and then do the work of softening it.

not to be alarmist, but have you had physical conditions ruled out or talked to a medical doctor about memory issues and vision going white? I ask since your post seemed to indicate this has happened on occasion.

I feel for you on this! It sounds like he is willing to work very hard on it at least - I hope you will be able to feel understood soon.

My therapist sometimes sounds a little angry at a former therapist of mine (who was a good therapist, but whose modality wasn't a good fit for me). He also told me one time that he cried when a therapist kind of screwed him over once in a way that made it impossible for him to keep seeing her. I am really grateful for the fact that he knows what it's like to be vulnerable in a therapeutic relationship. It would be so hard to feel like he didn't get how painful it could be, and I didn't realize until this thread how important that is.

But you express yourself really well and he sounds really sincere in trying to understand you - I have faith that you'll both be able to really fix this - I really wish that for you.

For me, a lot of dissociation happens (besides experiencing difficult emotions) when I feel invalidated or not understood. Is it possible that something similar is going on for you here? That your therapist not only failed to grasp the importance of the issue but also (maybe not willingly) dismissed your feelings and perspective on the matter. Which maybe triggered your dissociative response.

I had this (invalidation and being dismissed) happen more or less constantly to me when I was little so it's no surprise that experiencing something similar today might trigger some dissociation even though I might be able to handle it differently today...
Just a thought - feel free to dimiss it if not appropriate

With regard to T realizing what's going on for you (dissociating): My T had a suspicion (based on me having some spaced out look at times, or not being fully focused) and sometimes even asked "what's going on" "where are you now" etc but I didn't take her up on it. Only once when I had a really strong dissociative reaction and couldn't remember most of the session (plus I had those weird body experiences in session) I brought it up the next time and we started to talk about it. This was after about 2 years of therapy. She said that it took her quite a while to pick up on me dissociating because it was mostly subtle and somehow I was mostly able to carry on having some sort of "normal" conversation, even though inside everything was turned upside down. Which kind of indicates that I've been doing that for a long, long time, most of my life probably. So what's visible on the outside might not reflect what's going on inside of you...

All the best, c_r

I appreciate your perspective. It certainly seems like a treacherous subject, especially where there is a professional and/or emotional interest. I will persevere, mainly because I trust that his desire to help me will ultimately outweigh whatever is blocking the understanding at the moment. Our therapeutic relationship is strong and built on mutual trust, so my instinct is that we will have to simply continue to chip away at the boulder.
Thanks so much for the useful link; do you know whether they support people worldwide, or just in the US?

thanks for this, your experience sounds very close to mine, particularly how you describe the vision.

Thanks, that's what I thought too. Because I was so confused I found it hard to work out what he was trying to convey, I certainly don't think I've ever given him the impression that I did think that, I don't feel even massively attached to him to be honest, so I need to gain some clarity on where that came from. Like you say, it was minimising, and possibly some kind of clumsy reality check that he thought I might need... I don't know. I don't hold it against him, I just found it confusing and slightly offensive.

Thanks so much for sharing this - that sounds like a likely cause for me too. It certainly happened while he was talking, but I can't remember what was being said in that moment.
I do trust him, because, as you say, he has always proven steady and trustworthy before, but I think this is our biggest test so far, and it's going to be interesting to see how we progress.

I appreciate your concern. Because these things happen rarely, and have only occurred when I have been under severe stress, I tend to think they are psychological in nature. When I notice it, I can usually come out of it, so it seems unlikely to be a problem that medical intervention could address. I'll keep an eye on it though, thanks.