Therapist treating me like crap again--shocking, no?

I don't mean to make you feel bad about this because this is really not your fault and I'm not even faulting your thinking -- this is really hard to figure out.

But, just wanted to say that using the metric of some sort of visible reaction from him may not be the best way to figure this out -- without going into details (I really don't want to trigger anyone even by chance), I was abused consistently by someone who seemed to derive absolutely no pleasure from it. It was like something mechanical.

And, I've heard the same from some other survivors as well -- that the abuser seemed to not be experiencing any visible signs of pleasure and were utterly emotion-less and mechanical.

So, just because he seems to be looking at it like some kind of a science experiment if you will doesn't necessarily mean that's all it is.

Again, apologies though if this is hurtful -- to reiterate, this is not remotely meant to blame you.

I've felt it increasing in that I am less self-conscious about my body. But I think a big indicator here is that he's the freaking evil devil when I perceive he's done something to upset me. So...when I'm in that mindset, everything he does is creepy, weird, and I completely hate the man. When things are bad, they suck. When things are good, they are good (with him, and anything else in my life).

Looking at this objectively, of course it's creepy. But it's not that simple. There's genuine feelings for him there on my end, which complicates everything. Maybe I'd get scared if he ever tried to lay a hand on me. I can't say how I would react.

I'm sorry I really don't want to trigger you. All of this is confusing as hell.

WN, my college roommate grew up to be wiser than I could have imagined. When I had my do-I-stay-or-do-I-go dilemma, I called her. She asked me what I expected her to tell me. She was saying that I had my answer. I was calling her to get a push.

So I'll post a question to answer in your mind, not here, because I don't want to put you on the spot: What do you want from "us"? What do you deep-inside hope we'll say?

If everything was well, I don't believe you'd be posting. You'd be on the something-else forum talking about flower planting or photography, or music or whatever your other interests.

It was difficult for me to leave because I believed the therapists' (were two of them) TRUTH over my own. It was painful as hell to accept the people I looked to for wisdom and answers were dunces here, were destructive and had abandoned their professionalism. They PRETENDED to be in charge, but I had to take charge to end this destructive cycle. And it was group therapy, and other members sat silently as the therapists appealed for their allegiance against me. There's an out of print UK book on destructive therapy called Folie à Deux. In my case it was a Folie à Dix.

I guess I'm posting here because I wanted a safe place to "vent" about what's going on. I can't talk to any of my friends or family about this, are you kidding? They'd report him in five seconds and end up chastising me in the process.

On the positive side, good those family and friends might be assistance when and if you decide to leave. Friends were invaluable when I made my break.

And PS. I believe the primary reason to report a therapist is it's the right decision for the individual. Harmful therapy is complicated enough, and self-preservation comes first. It took me a lonnng time before I took that step and I would understand why anyone would not choose it. The traumatic bonding is only the start of it.

It's so difficult, after being a client, to look at therapy from the outside. Conversations with these people helped me helped me shift my viewpoint.
TELL: Therapy Exploitation Link Line

I'm going to bow out of this thread after this final post, because I think I've said all I have to say, but I read this passage today in Irvin Yalom's Love's Executioner, and I wanted to share it with you:

"I’ve seen too many patients badly damaged by therapists using them sexually. It’s always damaging to a patient. Therapists’excuses are invariably patent and self-serving rationalizations—for example, that the therapist is accepting and affirming the patient’s sexuality. While plenty of patients may need sexual affirmation—those who are markedly unattractive, extremely obese, surgically disfigured—I have yet to hear of a therapist affirming one of them sexually. It’s always the attractive woman who gets chosen for affirmation. It is, of course, the offending therapists who are in need of sexual affirmation and lack the resources or resourcefulness to obtain it in their own personal lives."

(Em) Well somebody send Yalom my t's name, stat! That may explain my prejudice or sensitivity to the acceptance aspect, and dont really see this t taking advantage. He may be more liberal than many here are accustomed to, and he may fly by the seat of his pants, but i think he is genuinely trying to help wn, meeting her where she is. Its very harsh to hear, "no i dont want to sleep with you, stop asking, i cant handle it". I mean, how would THAT be therapeutic?? You have this feeling, lets just explore it. Its as valid and safe as any other feeling. But then im old and fat so what i say doesnt count. Thats okay too.

That's typical for abusers to tell abused women they are abusing for her own benefit, that she needs this or that to get better etc

Also there was no need for a t to tell op that he doesn't want to sleep with her. He could say that it is not ethical and professional for him to engage in this type of contact with clients. Rather than saying " I want to f.... you nasty". I can't imagine that being appropriate thing say to anyone let alone ones client. I just don't see where is this type of talk ok and acceptable?



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Not to nitpick, but the quoted expression did not contain all those words in the original quote, and it kinda changes the intent and the emphasis and the meaning and a lot of stuff. "I want to" was added here. Not to mention context.

I am perplexed why you think any of this is therapeutic una? It seems WAY out of bounds for a therapist-client relationship. I wouldn't show my friends my nude photos, and they certainly wouldn't ask me what new ones I had when I saw them next, or which POSES to do! The only way I see this being appropriate is in a romantic relationship, which therapy is not.

What W-N describes seems like phone sex, but there's only one phone and it's in the room.

Am i the only one who has shown a t a naked photo? What i look like now is not what i used to look like, and i had issues with what i used to look like. And my family had issues with what i used to look like and they let me know it. And they REALLY have issues with me being obese. But its never been about body size acceptance, its only been about personal rejection. So the nakedness is really the least part of the problem. Mountain out of a molehill. Sexuality is certainly part of the rejection, and bad boundaries in the family. Thats why i keep stressing safety in the t relationship.

Certainly its upsidedown from what it SHOULD be. But so was my family. So t is where i heal. I hope that helps explain it.

I checked in on this thread and it did not disappoint.

For the love of God, I hope so. That is so far out of line.

I don't even have a nude photo of myself. I hear what you are saying Unaluna, but if, hypothetically, I did have a nude photo of myself and I tried to show it to any of my therapists, I am almost 100% certain they would put a firm and very clear boundary with me there. They would not allow me to do so, and if I somehow snuck it into their eyeline, they would call me on it as not at all appropriate, no matter why I was doing it. It would be a HUGE boundary violation on my part. They were all very clear about that kind of boundary from the very beginning. Note: my T's have all been male and I am female. Maybe different with same sex therapist/clients? Don't know. I'll be interested to hear what others experienced or think their therapist might do in response to a similar scenario.

I once showed my T a self portrait I had done in college. You can only see my back and the side of my face, and it is all in shadow (hence the psychological reasons for showing it to him), and I was hesitant about showing that to him because my back is bare in the portrait. I cannot imagine showing him a nude photo, or him being willing to look at it.

So... shame on me. Nowhere else to go with that? You all offer boundaries, dead ends, but no help or suggestions. Good thing you're not the ts.

I would not say shame on you, but I would not say your experience is typical either, such that it would be good to encourage others to go down that path. That was all I was saying. This woman's T presents much creepier than yours does. Yours does not seem as rough and crude, and much safer.

And what help or suggestion should someone make when the OP makes it pretty clear they do not want help or suggestions, and just wants to vent and get support? I am always unclear on what to do in those circumstances. What I think of as support does not seem to be what others consider supportive, so mostly I don't say anything.

I wrote an extensive response to Op, but it just evaporated into thin air.

We all tend to believe,especially in western society that our way is the only right way to do things. Nudity and Sexuality are things to be hidden and whispered about. This is certainly a sexual matter to the OP, but it m not convinced for the therapist. To me, this is about not being rejected no matter what. I'm sure the lovely women, that cover their heads and faces may be concerned about our nakedness. In contrast, to other therapist complaints on this forum, this does not raise a red flag for me.

Unaluna, you know that is not what I was saying at all. I was speaking personally. I think your perspective, though, may be rather unique and unusual.

The particular situation with the OP is very different from what you seem to describe Unaluna. Much more voyeuristic and inappropriate than what you describe.

I don't have nude photographs of me either. I can't imagine why I would - I am not saying it is wrong to take them - just that it does not come up for everyone.

From what you've written, the ops experience is very different from yours. For a lot of women, their low self esteem is not because they think they are unattractive necessarily, but instead because their sexuality determines their worth. i don't know if this is or isn't the case for the OP, but some women only feel good about themselves when their sexual attractiveness is validated by men. In situation like this I think some terribly unethical Ts use this insecurity to their own advantage. They manipulate their clients under the guise of "boosting self esteem". A decent T would know that the real therapy is in helping their client realize they are more than a sexual being. There is nothing even remotely therapeutic about expliexoiting someone's insecurities for your own pleasure.

I don't recall exact words but IMHO that is unacceptable regardless. We don't have to agree. In my books he is degrading and unethical. In yours he is helpful. We just have to disagree

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One thing is to show your pic to a t and the other him asking a client to show him her naked Pictures

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