Today in session we were talking about the feeling I get when I am around people, it always feels unsafe. T said I was like a scared animal and that I curl up and retreat when I am scared. She asked me if I was scared of her when she came close, I said I was scared of her but I had no reason to be.
When t comes close to me, I actually freeze or go into flight and get away from her. This happens with other people too. It's a real implicit memory that isn't really working anymore.
I am not sure what I can do about this because before I have any idea what is happening my body has already responded by swiftly moving away or freezing. T seen me yesterday in the centre where I work and she came up behind me and said hello. I wasn't expecting her and I froze, I could feel my body sweating and just wanting to run away but I couldn't. She said that I looked terrified. I felt terrified.
Anyway t said that this was really deep important work tonight and to take care this evening but I didn't feel anything in the session or afterwards. I wonder is this another misattunement between us because I feel something is big she usually doesn't

[kecanoe]

It seems to me that a person activating fight, flight or freeze regularly is kind of a big deal. For me it would be a signal that there was a trigger there and it would seem helpful to be able to identify the trigger. Is that why your t thinks this is a big deal?

But I am glad that you are feeling ok after exploring it. I hope that whatever is going on is gently revealed to you and healed.

I had things like that with my former T. Not around being scared or freezing, but he had a bunch of ideas he liked about how humans and the psyche works and he believed those to be universal truths (he told me so). Eventually, he tried to impose them on me as well, triggered by something that, for me, felt very insignificant (for me, but I did try to look at it from multiple angles). Then he ignored most other things and just wanted to dig that hole further, denying that he was pretty much digging it himself, based on his beliefs, further and further away from me. For us, it led to conflict upon conflict and eventually my leaving. Not suggesting your experience is similar, just this story of mine came to mind reading your post.

Another thing I wonder... this phenomenon of being unsafe and scared of people... you are a therapist as well, right? Do you experience anything like that with your clients?

Originally Posted by kecanoe

It seems to me that a person activating fight, flight or freeze regularly is kind of a big deal. For me it would be a signal that there was a trigger there and it would seem helpful to be able to identify the trigger. Is that why your t thinks this is a big deal?

But I am glad that you are feeling ok after exploring it. I hope that whatever is going on is gently revealed to you and healed.

It's been going on forever so for me it's not really a big deal but t seems to think it is. I think she was more concerned with me sharing all of this, she asked how it felt to let it out and I was like grand. She was like really? I said yes, I am grand. She didn't really believe me and said that some things may come up tonight and I guess they did with me posting this.
Thank you for the kind words Ke canoe, perhaps in the sharing and letting it out there will be healing.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I had things like that with my former T. Not around being scared or freezing, but he had a bunch of ideas he liked about how humans and the psyche works and he believed those to be universal truths (he told me so). Eventually, he tried to impose them on me as well, triggered by something that, for me, felt very insignificant (for me, but I did try to look at it from multiple angles). Then he ignored most other things and just wanted to dig that hole further, denying that he was pretty much digging it himself, based on his beliefs, further and further away from me. For us, it led to conflict upon conflict and eventually my leaving. Not suggesting your experience is similar, just this story of mine came to mind reading your post.

Another thing I wonder... this phenomenon of being unsafe and scared of people... you are a therapist as well, right? Do you experience anything like that with your clients?

Never, I never feel like this with clients. I have never noticed that I don't feel like this with clients until you brought it to my attention. I guess I see myself as equal to them, as someone who has been through and still is going through my own struggles.
I wonder is my t chasing a bone with me too, maybe like your t she has her own ideas about things. I am sure we all do but maybe this is her issue and she is projecting it onto me.

[Out There]

I'd say those sort of freeze responses are a big deal ( I agree with your T for once ! ) I can have them sometimes , but not all the time , and I have improved , especially since doing EMDR and TRE. Do you feel they have any particular trigger ? I often experience freezing first and fight or flight as a secondary response and it's usually where people are getting in my space either literally or figuratively , but there are others as well.

[rainbow8]

I agree with your T this time. Your reaction is not limited to her, so I think it IS a big deal. It sounds like your mind is minimizing it but your body isn't. A good T is aware of your body language. I would pursue your freeze reactions if I were you.

I think that talking about them is not enough, I really need to do something about it. I would like to try EMDR. It makes a change that you agree with my t Outthere , I guess the two of you can't be wrong. I feel this happens when people get to close or someone I don't trust comes close to me and even when people in work come over to have a chat, I am baffled as to why and I begin to get suspicious. I notice myself freezing and then when I unfreeze similarly to you I begin to back away from them. As I am doing this I am pretending nothing weird is happening and try to act normally. Last week in work a girl gave me an unexpected hug and my first reaction was to put my arm up to stop her. I was so embarrassed because she is a lovely girl and before I knew what was happening my body had already responded.

[Out There]

I don't feel talking gets it all , the body reacting in that way needs other things , it's not great to feel that way.

[AllHeart]

It almost sounds like a PTSD thing. Regardless, it definitely seems highly important. Would you find this to be extremely important if a client presented it to you as their story?

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I agree with your T this time. Your reaction is not limited to her, so I think it IS a big deal. It sounds like your mind is minimizing it but your body isn't. A good T is aware of your body language. I would pursue your freeze reactions if I were you.

Yes, that's exactly it Rainbow, my mind is minimising it and my body feels powerless.

Originally Posted by Out There

I don't feel talking gets it all , the body reacting in that way needs other things , it's not great to feel that way.

Talking about it is not helpful at all.

Originally Posted by AllHeart

It almost sounds like a PTSD thing. Regardless, it definitely seems highly important. Would you find this to be extremely important if a client presented it to you as their story?

Yes, if it was a client I would be extremely worried but because it's me
And I have lived with it for so long I am kinda like, really t, this is no big deal.
If it was happening with a client I would be worried that coming to see me wasn't enough and I would suggest going to a body therapist.
I would be curious about the clients interactions with me and would track what is happening between us very carefully. I would ask them what they notice is happening in their body as they were sitting with me and if it happened in session that they froze I would take it through very slowly and be curious about what triggered it. Once client has some awareness around why it's happening I think they can see how it's a very clever way of protecting themselves but maybe their sense of danger is going out of whack. I might ask them to exaggerate their response and follow their desire to withdraw and if they feel like hiding or curling up into a ball to try that here with me and let's be curious together. I think their body is responding to an implicit memory or procedural learning from before they could even put words to it. I would be curious about their past relationships especially their relationship with their mother or primary caregiver.

[cinnamon_roll]

Hi Mona,
this feeling startled, having some sort of flight/freeze response happens to me too from time to time. For me it seems to depend on stress levels in general. And I need a lot of "personal space" around me in order to feel safe, not always possible, I know... So I start avoiding those situations: Crowded places, public transport etc.. Which isn't really the solution, but just avoiding. Like you I don't really know where this stems from, why I react the way I do. Telling myself that this is 2016 and that I am indeed safe and that I can control the situation doesn't really help.

Is it possible that your "gut reaction" is tied to "authority figures" in the broadest sense? Tied to a power differential in the relationship (real or perceived)?

What really helps for me with those "body memories" in the broadest sense is nonverbal work (painting, drawing, body work, music etc.), which helps to leave the cognitive level behind (since this doesn't have much to do with what your body feels and your body doesn't react to cognitive interventions, at least mine doesn't).

Hi Cinnamon_roll,
Thank you for your reply. I can really relate to needing personal space! I sometimes feel like a weirdo because I need so much of it. Being around people really zaps my energy, of course it depends on who I am around too.
I have always been afraid around authority figures, teachers, bosses and now my t who I know doesn't have that authority poise at all, she treats me as an equal but I know it's not really equal but she does her best to make me feel comfortable. It is worse around authority figures.
I haven't done any painting in a long time and I know that really used to help me and listening to music and dancing. I really must try to do that for myself as part of my self care. Thank you for your reply Cinnamon_roll