Do we really miss them? (Possible TRIGGER)

I don't blame anyone who doesn't get the "paid friend" comment that my ex-husband pointed out, as I discussed at length with him every therapy session. Both he and another relative pointed this out months ago and I became defensive at the time.

I get that someone can't understand from my point of view, if they haven't been there themselves.

My new t said (last session), "you weren't paying her to be your friend. The things she said and the dynamic you had would have blurred the lines for anyone" and later, "Your therapist shouldn't be your friend!" when I confessed some other things. He had this confused look on his face when I divulged things.

It is what it is, for me. If you've never had that experience, that's great for you. I wouldn't do it again. My closest friend said, "I think I challenge you more than she does. You might as well go grab coffee with her and foot the bill." She was accurate. She did pose more questions that required a higher degree of self-reflection. Actually, my ex-husband, too. And both of these people were concerned about our dynamic. I'm quite grateful to have them in my life. The running joke was, "Maybe I should send you the bill instead of therapist."

My experience. I refused to see it at the time, as they all implored me to find someone new.

If anyone is triggered by this, I wonder why? Maybe you wish your t could be a paid friend? Those are questions id be asking if I was bothered by someone else's perspective on an experience I've never had (and how earth can you? Over a thousand hours in therapy cannot be broken down into a few paragraphs on a forum).

This argument has been going on for a loooong time. Freud is said to have replied to the accusation that he was just doing what a friend could do for free, "Ah, but where would one find such a friend?"

Sometimes yeah chicken soup is enough. But sometimes you need antibiotics. Or hospitalization. Metaphorically, literally, whateverly.

With a friend like freud, who needs enemies?

Discussion is an opportunity for growth. I know enough to know I don't know much. My perspective is just that. Then there is someone else's. Who's wrong? No one. Just an opinion. We see things as we are.

Either way, wish we could return to the topic at hand and just discuss our individual experiences without telling someone that their perspective, their lens, is wrong.

I didn't mean for some to get triggered by the topic, but then again I can't anticipate those types of things. I only live my life.

I'm go through a mourning stage at the moment. Perhaps I kept myself safe by putting value in a therapeutic relationship over my "regular" life people. Still emotionally unavailable, maybe.

I think I'd hope around from therapist to therapist. Maxing out at maybe a year, tops. We'll see how this one works out. So far, so good.

I'm not triggered by the paid friend perspective. If someone feels that's what they're paying for, I guess that's their business to stay or quit.

I wasn't saying you in particular. Just anyone. And I concur.

If you had said that in German it would be a sentence full of puns.

Freund! Freud! Feind!

LOL. This is the most negative post in the thread.

What you call negativity could also be seen as much needed balance, which might help keep this place from going full cult.

Personally, I don't go to therapy. I'm a recovering therapy addict.

That was hurtful.

People have shared their experiences and feelings here.

That was not nice.

I've seen that you have been hurt in therapy. That should not give you the freedom to cut someone down with your comment of it being the most negative post in the thread.

Respecting other peoples feelings and thoughts, that gives me a view to look at things in different ways.

Disrespect is always a shut down for listening to anyone for me.

The post I replied to referred to other posters as "so damn negative", accused other posters of "hypocritical BS", and told other posters not to post, and to move on, and did so aggressively. I think what i said is pretty mild in comparison.

People say some pretty outrageous ***** about therapy and it's condoned if it upholds conventional views that the majority find comfortable. But if someone takes a critical or questioning position, even if they do so calmly and delicately and sincerely, they are often thrown up against the wall and threatened.

I don't know what part disturbs me more - the puns or the excessive punctuation.

To me, to know someone and to know something about someone are different things. I don't know many things about my T but I've spent so much time with him that I certainly know him in a very particular way.

Also, are you referring to that T's don't offer you anything in return? How's that? In every relationship people offer something to each other - that's just the nature of relationships. It might be that you are offering different things that a T offers to you but to imagine that the relationship affects only you is naive and illusional.

At the same time it is true that they are not "real" people in our lives and I think that's great. This allows us to project our problems on them and cast them into any roles we need to. With "real" people you just can't do that and thus therapy would not be possible. However, the relationship with the T can be very real (unless you actively avoid it yourself).

I realise that when I miss my T then I miss what he represents to me. I don't miss him in particular. In that sense I think that it is not about them at all. In that sense I think that my T's love to me as far more real than my love to him.

thank you for saying this. why should my experince of therapy, and others for that case, be of any less value on this forum just because we had negative experiences and chose to share and discuss those experiences that possibly go against the status quo or may make some feel uncomfortable??

at one time, i can honestly say that i use to drink the 'therapy kool-aid'...i once was a big believer that the relationship would heal, i experienced both the intense maternal and erotic transferences, struggled with the fear of abandonment, felt deeply attached, and i believed that my ex-T cared for me and at one time believed he may even love me. i was very similar to those who have had/have the 'good' experiences of therapy with their T and who hounour their therapy experiences. but then, as time went on over the years, i started to notice something different about therapy and my T. i started to have questions and doubts about what my T was providing and how he was delivering those things. i challenged him often on these doubts i was having, and many times he did not respond well, often becoming defensive. it wasn't until i started reading incidences of others who were sharing stories of similar experiences in their own therapy and their own Ts, that i really started to listen to what my inner gut had been trying to tell me...

deep inside my heart and soul, something just did not feel right with how this entire therapy thing works and i could no longer uphold my belief in the therapy system . it was not working for me, and it was leading to more harm than being helpful. something changed for me along the way. perhaps it was an awakening...(hence the prefix to my user name 'koru' which is a Maori symbol that represent 'new beginnings'). personally, i knew it was time for me to end therapy and find an alternative way to heal my issues...for me, this was my new beginning and i was staring to see the things that had happened in my own therapy and the relationship from an entirely new perspective.

whether someone has a good or bad experince of therapy or of a therapist, as members of this supporting community, we all should have the right to share those experiences with out fear of being shamed, insulted, ganged up on, disgraced, or ridiculed. i would only hope that as the adults that we are here, we would listen considerately and have the ability to wisely contemplate and openly discuss what each and everyone has to share and offer to the conversation.

as here today said:

and apologies Calilady for diverting away from your original topic. you ask some very interesting questions that deserve some contemplation and serious discussion.

In other news, I just got 9 hours of sleep after only get 3-4 hours the past 3 nights. Yay! Lol.

No worries. We all learn from each other.

For me it's been a process with many stages, twists and turns. With my first therapist, I never experienced any attachment to him, but I did get obsessed with the process of therapy itself. Similar obsession with the second T, but with him it was very different on the personal level as I liked him very much and we had a great vibe throughout. I did feel attached to him in the interpersonal sense also, but not excessively, it was actually one of my pretty healthy, secure attachments and, in a way, still is, as we keep in touch via email infrequently. So in my case, attachment was never an issue in my therapy, but obsession and addiction was. It had little to do with the Ts, much more with my getting caught up in constant self-examination and reporting it to the T, often using our relationship for my dissections. It could be a serious distraction from other important tasks in my life and a habit quite hard to break, really much like my other addictive tendencies.

I ended regular therapy last November and had a few sessions here and there this year, but now I'm pretty much over it and do not miss it at all. I actually think that I am not a very good therapy client at all in spite of my instrospective and analytical nature. Exactly because I just can't really wrap my head around the psychodynamic "therapeutic relationship", I find it extremely unnatural. I don't have much problem getting my human needs met in everyday relationships that are balanced, but have never been able to use therapy for that purpose and now don't have any interest in using it that way. I would still go to get an outside perspective if I struggled with a specific mental health issue and felt that I could use some consultation.

Therapists make absurd grandiose claims. They offer little evidence and few specifics. Serious scrutiny is actively discouraged. People mostly pay attention only to rosy and idealized therapy cases and hold those cases up as typical. Those who describe destructive experiences are treated as pariahs, or not even heard. Speaks for itself.

I guess there is huge difference talking about your own personal experiences which are definitely very valid vs making statements such as "therapists make absurd grandiose claims". The latter isn't sharing your own personal experience anymore but rather attempting to say something about all therapists in general. It would be as good as someone else saying something along the lines that "all those who don't benefit from therapy are highly defensive and avoidant" or whatever. For some reason I don't think you would appreciate such broad statements. Maybe that would help you to understand why many people don't appreciate similar statements about therapists.

Are you suggesting that therapy consumers should never attempt to say something about therapists in general? If so, why? Given that therapists are messing with lives and with psychological health under conditions of great secrecy, people ought to be able to discuss big picture. Aren't you advocating censorship... i.e. you may only describe your personal experience, nothing more?

Therapists are the gate-keepers of this system. They make the rules and they make the money. They need to be subjected to scrutiny. This does not apply to clients, thus the "defensive avoidant" thing would serve what purpose?

I find they make absurd grandiose claims in their literature. I believe it of most if not all of them based on my interactions with them as a professional, my experiences with them as a client, my experiences as a student (Because I can do it for free -I have taken a lot of classes with people who want to become psychotherapists,and some classes with people who want to become lcsws - also I have gone to their continuing education seminars), and by reading a lot of their books.
Is that better?

Well, you can, of course. I mean, people say all kinds of things about all sorts of things. But if you say those things just based on your own very biased experience then I don't think you should expect to be taken seriously.

I don't understand why would you think that I'm advocating censorship. I think that people talking about their experiences, whether they are good or bad, is very valuable. However, personal experience is precisely that - a personal experience and you just can't draw any general conclusions based on that.

I don't think I have argued with you at all. I'm absolutely ok with you having experienced the therapists you have interacted with as such.

Agree. If I saw a few therapists and then assumed they represented all therapists that would be silly.

If however I saw or tried two dozen therapists, read several books written by therapists, read many scholarly papers, read their blogs, interacted with them on their blogs, watched their YT videos, read therapy forums for three years, and talked to other clients directly about their experiences... would that qualify me to draw some general conclusions?

Gosh, how fascinating. I do resonate with some things you wrote. Hmmm...

You really think that these personal and biased experiences would qualify you to draw some general conclusions? You really think so? Then you should be absolutely satisfied therapists drawing general conclusions about their patients just based on their personal experience and inductive bias (e.g. "those patients who have not improved in therapy with me have just been too defensive").