Do you think psychologists are greedy and overcharge or not?

In my experience therapists are grossly overpaid. Some of mine had a PhD but why should that drive the fee? I don't see their training as likely to translate to a marketable skill or a tangible service (unless I am a psych student maybe).

My therapists mostly just threw out some trite advice and feigned interest in my problems. I can get that for free.

I spoke to some therapists on the phone who wanted $200+. Could be greed but could also be pathological hubris.

I agree 100% that teachers are underpaid. However to compare it to other profession is unfair. When it comes to lawyers. Therapists, doctors, etc. I pay the bill not the government. I pick and choose who I see and the what I am willing to pay. When it comes to teachers or say court appointed layers, etc. I am not on control of who they hire or what they pay.

I do believe t is underpaid in my case. I know what she bills to my insurance company. However she is actually paid less than half. I do not know what she charges those who pays without insurance. I know at least on my area it is less because the have to pay somebody to do the billing. Wait for payment etc. At one point I was without insurance for a few weeks. She insisted I pay her just my copay and we would deal the rest later. Because my husband was unemployed, she told me even the copay became an issue to tell her. When he went back to work And we had insurance. I asked about making payments mom what I owed her. She refused to take any extra money. She was only charging me for the co pay for those weeks.

Oh and she has never had any complaints. disciplinary actions or been sued in 30+ years
..

And don't forget the ones who convince clients to pay them even when they give notice about vacations etc -so the client can never take time off without paying the therapist- like they are paying the therapist a salary. To me, that is madness. I would not do it, but some do.

I think the first session should be like, $25. It's such a hit-or-miss kinda thing.

I've had "phone interviews" which aren't even interviews. They've all agreed to whatever I've said, just to get me in the door.

This has been the attitude of my psychologists/psychiatrists too. They've made it a matter of principle even. One psychiatrist was like "Well if you can't afford me, then you should learn realism and live with the type of therapist you can afford." I had another therapist who was going to charge me his full rate if I went off of my health insurance and he was out of network. He advised me just to forget him and to treat myself with the techniques he had taught to me.

I've never met an altruistic therapist, either. I had one therapist when I was younger who would make a point of charging me her full fee if I couldn't cancel 24 hours before an appointment but couldn't make the appointment still. She thought it taught me to really value her services.

These all seem to be full-on rationalizations for why therapists charge the high prices that they do that most people cannot afford. Then they don't have to work very hard since the average per hour fee is so high that it's about 3 hours work for a normal worker. That's another thing I've never seen: a therapist working a 9 hour day or a 10 hour day.

I've only met one therapist, who had a full time job as a college tenured professor of psychology, who would work into the evenings and on Sundays in order to make extra money as a clinical therapist. I think he was saving up money to afford his kids' college tuitions.

My former T dropped her rate for me, so I could continue sessions. She went from $125 to $60. If she were an out-of-network provider, she would have rec'd $90, but she doesn't take my insurance.

She then lowered my rate to $10 a session, so I could go to DBT group therapy w/her as the leading therapist, every other week (which I paid for, separately). This lasted for the duration of the group, but I noticed at the end there, I was the person she'd cancel on. She fit me on Friday's during her lunch break and I think it was easy for her to cancel on me because I was the $10 session.

Later, she admitted that she RARELY receives her entire fee (I had been paying her whole fee in the beginning, before I needed a sliding scale amount) and when she and I had a fight, she came back with, "I hope you know I care about you whether you're paying me $10 or $125." It was the farthest thing from MY mind, but okay.

I dunno, we ended poorly, so this aspect is lost in the shuffle of things.

It doesn't sound like your therapist was a full PhD or MD because in high cost areas their fees run from 150-300 per hour, not just 120 at the high end. Was this therapist a LCSW or a MSW?

Or perhaps this was multiple years ago, or else perhaps you were not in a high cost area. My psychiatrist from 15 years ago charged $250 per hour in the NYC area. She was the one who told me that if I oouldn't afford her fee then I should face reality and look for therapists with a MSW or a LCSW or a student psychologist in training who would give me lower fees.

PhD now. Her rates for have increased to $150.

I had a psych before her. Her rate through the insurance, which should have been 90%, was only $85 through Anthem. I had to pay the first visit upfront, which was $125 as well. She would have never reduced her rates, though, if I didn't have insurance.

I left her when she told me that I should have a child to receive the unconditional love I so desperately desired. So ummm yeah, not worth the $$$ lol.

I see a clinical science with at least 30 years experience. Her top fee is $175.00/hour. She share an office with several others therapist, including a Harvard trained psychiatrist who's fee is $350.00/hour. None of the therapist take insurance. My therapist take as little as $10.00/ hour and the psychiatrist will cut her fee to $125/hour. I suggested the psychiatrist to a friend because she practices holistic medicine. My friend could afford the full fee, but the therapist mentioned the low end of her sliding scale to him if he ran in to trouble. He saw her for a year and has been off all Ativan and Xanax for 2 years now and is doing great.

There are some with the degrees you speak of that are willing to adjust their fees and are not mired in greed.

Well, my experiences have been nothing like OP's. Both were PhDs, both worked long hours, both have accepted payment far below their full fees, and both were in private practice. One also had a full-time University administrative job. But I am not in an urban area, but rather a University town.

I think there are a few flaws in the logic here when comparing professions. OP, if you have a PhD and are working as a high school teacher, you are under employed. You may be paid at the highest discretionary level, but the ceiling is determined by the position, not who holds it. If you held a University post, your income would be far more comparable.

Not sure what altruism or "working hard" has to do with anything. Such qualitative distinctions are just as unrealistic to demand from therapists as from teachers or nurses or anyone else in a helping profession. Many show such qualities as a function of the personality that informed their choice of profession. But to determine comparative worth based on intention seems pointless (and impossible) to me. If any professional doesn't embody a value I require, I find one who does. But I accept that it's my preference I'm serving, not a failing in the professional.

Any professional who is self-employed has business expenses; insurance reimbursements rarely match full fee. And some insurance agreements will not allow for any discretion in fee. In my experience, no professional I have hired has ever cost me more than lawyers. What we really need is insurance coverage for legal fees.

I'm looking for a new t. Doesn't matter if they are a regular LMFT or a P, just on the hunt. I did see an expensive one charge $290 and doesn't take any insurance; her office is on a very ritzy street here (Rodeo Drive-esque).
That isn't saying much though cuz the first one I had was in a very touristy area and still charged much less.

It runs the gamut in my area.

This is a very American issue imo. Because when I read that some people on this forum pay their therapist 200 dollars for an hour, it makes me want to scream. These kinds of insane amounts of money would be considered grossly unethical in Europe since most people here pay for their therapy out of pocket (unless you go to a public hospital). Therapy is not reimbursed in my country so a therapist demanding the equivalent of 150-200 dollars per session would just end up with no clients at all. So yes I do believe that American therapists are as a whole greedy and overcharge. The majority of therapists where I live ask for 50 euros per session (59 dollars), not more than that. Nobody would show up if they asked for more.

Your view of what a person is supposed to do with a PhD is antiquated. There is no set path that one is supposed to take with a PhD, and there are many PhDs teaching at the high school level.

It is a logical fallacy called ad hominem fallacy to examine the motivation of a question by examing the asker's personal background. There are many academic studies and newspaper articles questioning whether a particular good or service is inflated or excessive. I am focusing on a particular industry and people can make comparisons across the providers in an industry. It ia pretty average type of question.

Here are articles about why psychotherapy is so expensive. I think these reasons are rationalizations:

Why some therapists charge $600 per hour: http://shrinktalk.net/?p=101

Original New York Times article about therapists charging $600 per hour: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/ny...agewanted=1&hp

Why is therapy so expensive? https://www.talkspace.com/blog/2015/...azy-expensive/

Here are the annual base salaries for psychotherapists in NY state:

Psychologist Salaries in New York and by education, experience, Location and more - Salary.com

Why therapists are so expensive: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0af6d718992e7

Why therapy is so expensive: https://psychcentral.com/blog/archiv...harge-so-much/

Why therapy is so expensive: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...y-is-expensive

Why therapy is so expensive: http://buildingfamilycounseling.com/...apy-expensive/

Why therapy is so expensive: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-psychot...ive-on-average

Is therapy too expensive: https://www.theguardian.com/society/...spond-comments

Of course there's no set path for a PhD. I never claimed there was. But the fact that many PhDs teach at the high school level is a result of a saturated market. There is a gross oversupply of PhDs in many areas of the country, especially in non-STEM fields. There is no state in the US where a PhD is the required credential for teaching in secondary ed. Under employment is what it's called when people are hired into jobs with credentials that exceed the standard. But it's the standard that determines salary ranges.

There's no ad hominem attack here, simply an explanation of market forces (and I would point out your use of such an attack in your response to me). Your presented argument is that you're not compensated adequately for your degree. You've stated that you work harder than equally credentialed therapists. I think making the leap from personal dissatisfaction to an indictment that those with an equivalent level of education in a different profession are somehow greedy is absurd. Is therapy too expensive? No--it is whatever the market determines it to be, same as every other profession. Should therapy be more accessible at all price points? Yes, I think so. But that can only be widely accomplished through subsidy in our current market/insurance system.

We live in a country that does not fundamentally value education and that is what has dictated lower compensation for teachers at all levels. The fact that some other professions average higher compensation is irrelevant because we live in a capitalist economy. If you want a society in which relative worth and compensation is based on a different value system that's fine--but it's not the current reality.

The therapists in both articles need help - they are so condescending, arrogant, self justifying, and full of themselves it would funny except for the damage they can do.

When therapists refer to themselves as "clinicians" and mention "caseloads" and "treatment protocols", it's a con. They sit and talk. That is the service. These associations with doctors distort the nature of the service and create the conditions for exorbitant and delusional fees.

I saw a PsyD with a degree from Harvard. He was no different from any of the others. He sat there and did very little. I did most of the work. His education was basically irrelevant. I might as well have talked to the neighborhood cat.

They can know all of the ***** in the world, but they can only meet us as much as they meet themselves. At least, that's my opinion on it.

I doubt I'd pay anyone more than $125 per hour, out of pocket. Now, if they accepted the insurance, lol...

From my perspective, working for an organization/company is very different both economically and structurally. I used to work for a nonprofit and before that a university, and I was not only compensated a salary but I also received health insurance, dental insurance, medical spending account, retirement benefits, disability and life insurance benefits for myself and my family. Those benefits were worth about 40-55% of my salary (and did not have to pay taxes on them). Since I worked there early in my career, my retirement savings have been growing, so that's an added benefit. In my opinion, a full time job with benefits is not just about a salary.

Now with my own consulting practice, I no longer have those benefits. I also pay 2x the tax on my earnings as a self employed person. So my hourly rate doesn't just go in my pocket. In addition to health insurance (which costs more than what many people pay in a mortgage and it soon may be more), I also pay for office space.

When I was employed, I also did not make less if I did less (i.e. don't have enough business). The guarantee of a salary and a guaranteed retirement savings, predictable health care insurance and the promise to help my family if I became sick or died, was nice.

I have been lucky that I have all the business I need, and in the past 2 years business has been so good that I have raised my fees and increased my estimates of what I think different projects will cost. My hourly rate is quite high by industry standards (I also have a Ph.D.) but my compensation total is probably a little better than what I'd earn if I were still in a full time job in my field.

I suppose my long winded point is that an hourly fee for a person in any business, including a T, has to be considered in the context of how expensive it is to run any business. I don't think it's equivalent to compare a salaried employee of an organization/business and the hourly fee of someone who works for themselves.

I think many people don't get paid what they deserve, especially those who teach or provide other services to people. I don't begrudge those with extraordinary high salaries, good for them. I consider the fees for my therapist to be reasonable within the area, for being in private practice. If I thought they were too high, I would go see someone cheaper or go less often to therapy.

Didn't he challenge you or ask penetrating questions?

The ones I have seen have never asked penetrating questions and their attempts to "challenge" me were misguided, clumsy and ultimately laughable pointless events.

He made some observations, moved his head from one side to the other, stared at me blankly when I got emotional one time, and asked some basic questions. I didn't dislike him, but it was looking mighty pointless. I didn't need to be challenged, especially by a total stranger.

agreed...my therapy cat is not only quite understanding, empathetic, and allowing of hugs, but his only fee is a cozy bed to sleep on, an endless supply of cat bikkies (food), and the occasional chin scratch.

Your cat sounds good. When I try and tell my cat my problems she just looks back at me like I'm a f***ing idiot

Still more empathic than my therapist is managing to be right now.