I know never say you are going to HARM yourself or others. Or that you murdered someone. Or you abused your child ... but what else

I fear going to a therapist because the last time I was almost sent to jail for doing none of those things.

[rottedxdoll]

I wonder about this too, but I have no idea how one would get a clear answer. I've wondered if doing or selling drugs is something you shouldn't discuss. Or like, what if you're a pimp? I dunno. There should be a clear line for this kind of thing.

[splitimage]

I don't know what the laws are where you are, so they may be different from where I am. \

Here in ON, the only circumstances where a counsellor can breach confidentiality and notify the authorities are:
- when you are a danger to yourself or others,
- There is abuse of a child under the age of 16 involved.
`- You have driven drunk (MD's only)
- You've been abused by another health care professional
- Your records are subpoenaed by the court for something.

Of course there may be other circumstances where they have to release details of your case, such as with insurance, a lawyer, another Dr., but you have to sign a health release from ok'ing the release.

splitimage

Hmmm, why wouldn't a professional act upon such information?

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by justafriend306

Hmmm, why wouldn't a professional act upon such information?

Because of professional ethics and HIPPA.

In my state mental health professionals are required to report if the client is a danger to self or others, abuse of a minor or a person over 65 years old and abuse by another mental health professional. Criminal activity is not reportable. Matter of fact reporting it would be an ethical violation. I'm not positive about pimping. The laws regarding human trafficking are changing.

[Loose Screw x 2]

The way I feel about this is I'm paranoid anyway but, I have also learned from experience that it can pay to be wary of how much information you reveal about yourself and how people are going to react to what you tell them. My dark alter, DH whom I don't get along with very well has learned from experience that I am sometimes right when I try to caution him on the things he wants to say to others when he is diplaying his pride or is angry because we don't want his mouth to get the rest of us in trouble because we have to live in this body too. So far all of our hospital visits have been voluntary and we want to keep it that way as we value our freedom greatly. So, if you're concerned about how much information you reveal about yourself to anyone at all I say do be concerned and be extra careful.

[Carmina]

I'd see this more as 'things you must tell your therapist even if there's a risk of ending up in jail' - because it's better to risk that, and to get some support and help when needed, than to do those things.

[Loose Screw x 2]

Originally Posted by Carmina

I'd see this more as 'things you must tell your therapist even if there's a risk of ending up in jail' - because it's better to risk that, and to get some support and help when needed, than to do those things.

I would agree with this if jail wasn't the way that it has become in the last few decades. Mentally ill people are targeted in jail and deliberately tormented, beaten, molested and raped until they commit suicide and if they "snitch" then, their tormentors basically put a price on their head and even solitary confinement isn't safe for them. I've watched many documentaries on prison life and read statements and stories of survivors. In one case a guy told a prison doctor "If you send me back in there ("there" being the prison) I will kill myself. The doctor reportedly said "I don't give a damn." at which point the prisoner hung his head in despair and wept. That's jail. That's prison.

[seesaw]

Sigh, this subject is just fraught with problems...Here's why...I have told medical providers about my pattern of self harm. And I've been involuntarily committed for it. And I was violated when they did so. I already had PTSD but I now also am traumatized by my experience with medical professionals.

Mavriforce brings up a good point that, yes, ideally you could confide in your T and feel that, however you would be cared for, that you would be safe. But the fact of the matter is, while your T might be thinking that having you committed would keep you safe, psych wards are often dangerous places where the patients are abused, violated, demeaned, and treated with no dignity or respect. For patients who have depression and anxiety and need to build confidence and self esteem, these stays can be way more harmful than helpful. I know it was in my case.

I think the key is building trust with your T before you confide in them about some of these things and then having a contract. So, I had a contract with one T where if I self harmed, then she would fire me as a patient. She was perfectly clear.

I had another T who understood the nature of my self harm, and if I was at the doctor getting stitches and they called him to report my self harm and see if I needed to be committed, he would tell them to let me go home, that our next appointment was in a few days, and that committal would not solve the issue.

I had another provider who not only caused me harm by not listening to me reporting side effects of prozac but then had me committed then fired me as a patient while I was in the hospital, telling the judge that she could no longer treat met because I was a danger to myself...when I was only a danger to myself because of the prozac that SHE put me on and that I had reported had side effects to her.

I don't trust most mental health professionals on face value. They have to prove to me that they are trustworthy and that they actually care. I have also learned, through all my experiences, to be my own advocate and know my own rights. I like my current pdoc and T because they are both very straight forward and also because they acknowledge that it ain't my first rodeo so they are completely honest with me. I also make decisions on what I need to tell them or not.

So that's just my take and how I operate. Everyone is different.

Seesaw

[Loose Screw x 2]

Originally Posted by seesaw

Sigh, this subject is just fraught with problems...Here's why...I have told medical providers about my pattern of self harm. And I've been involuntarily committed for it. And I was violated when they did so. I already had PTSD but I now also am traumatized by my experience with medical professionals.

Mavriforce brings up a good point that, yes, ideally you could confide in your T and feel that, however you would be cared for, that you would be safe. But the fact of the matter is, while your T might be thinking that having you committed would keep you safe, psych wards are often dangerous places where the patients are abused, violated, demeaned, and treated with no dignity or respect. For patients who have depression and anxiety and need to build confidence and self esteem, these stays can be way more harmful than helpful. I know it was in my case.

I think the key is building trust with your T before you confide in them about some of these things and then having a contract. So, I had a contract with one T where if I self harmed, then she would fire me as a patient. She was perfectly clear.

I had another T who understood the nature of my self harm, and if I was at the doctor getting stitches and they called him to report my self harm and see if I needed to be committed, he would tell them to let me go home, that our next appointment was in a few days, and that committal would not solve the issue.

I had another provider who not only caused me harm by not listening to me reporting side effects of prozac but then had me committed then fired me as a patient while I was in the hospital, telling the judge that she could no longer treat met because I was a danger to myself...when I was only a danger to myself because of the prozac that SHE put me on and that I had reported had side effects to her.

I don't trust most mental health professionals on face value. They have to prove to me that they are trustworthy and that they actually care. I have also learned, through all my experiences, to be my own advocate and know my own rights. I like my current pdoc and T because they are both very straight forward and also because they acknowledge that it ain't my first rodeo so they are completely honest with me. I also make decisions on what I need to tell them or not.

So that's just my take and how I operate. Everyone is different.

Seesaw

I'm sorry that those awful things happened to you, seesaw. I once checked myself into the state mental hospital and although nothing nowhere near that bad happened I did notice that the furnishings were damaged, the orderlies were irritable and some of them were bullies and the staff seemed to have an attitude problem. Furthermore nothing was enforced much like for instance if you didn't eat your dinner and got up and went to your room, nobody on staff would put it in a safe place for you until you decided that you were hungry after all.
Also, if you were on "suicide watch" they would make you stay in the activity room all day long so they could watch you from the desk instead of just having someone keep an eye on you and would wheel your bed into the activity room at night so, that they could watch you from the desk that way too rather than send someone to your room to watch you and if you had to pee an orderly had to stand and watch you with the bathroom door wide open meaning that if you have trouble urinating in front of others then, you were just screwed and that was it. Also, there was a lot that they didn't inform patients of like how you were to go about getting your clothes washed, that after being there for one week you'd be allowed to go to other parts of the hospital to use recreational facilities and so on and so forth. These things you had to learn from other patients. Last I heard that hospital had been closed down.

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Because of professional ethics and HIPPA.

In my state mental health professionals are required to report if the client is a danger to self or others, abuse of a minor or a person over 65 years old and abuse by another mental health professional. Criminal activity is not reportable. Matter of fact reporting it would be an ethical violation. I'm not positive about pimping. The laws regarding human trafficking are changing.

I am greatly troubled here.

I think you owe it to yourself to be entirely honest with your mentalhealth caregivers. How can they properly treat you if you aren't. By the very fact you see one indicates an interest in improving your state of mental health. To be less than honest defeats the purpose, doesn't it? Right

Similarly, you owe it to others - and not just those close to you. If you are sick enough that you are having dangerous thoughts, you should be under more intensive care.

I am pretty sure that no matter your region that your psychiatrist owes an obligation to society and its safety first. Not even a clergy person can use the argument of privilege with respect to information regarding public safety.

Originally Posted by rottedxdoll

I wonder about this too, but I have no idea how one would get a clear answer. I've wondered if doing or selling drugs is something you shouldn't discuss. Or like, what if you're a pimp? I dunno. There should be a clear line for this kind of thing.

My therapist asked my if I owned any firearms ... I told her in the state of Florida just passed in Tallahassee ... you are violating the law under the FL State Statues by asking that question

Do you want me to call law enforcement?

I guess I'm a little bit of a bad as.s but I just don't like being violated!

That really makes your therapist more polite ... right away!

Originally Posted by Moderation

My therapist asked my if I owned any firearms ... I told her in the state of Florida just passed in Tallahassee ... you are violating the law under the FL State Statues by asking that question

Do you want me to call law enforcement?

I guess I'm a little bit of a bad as.s but I just don't like being violated!

That really makes your therapist more polite ... right away!

I have already proven myself to be a hardliner. The way I see it, if your therapist asked you about firearms possession, she had good reason to and no I don't see this as infringing on your rights. She has a duty to ensure the safety of you, the people around you, and the public at large.

Originally Posted by rottedxdoll

I wonder about this too, but I have no idea how one would get a clear answer. I've wondered if doing or selling drugs is something you shouldn't discuss. Or like, what if you're a pimp? I dunno. There should be a clear line for this kind of thing.

I discussed that! Da.m I discussed everything and she let everyone know about our personal, confidential doctor/ patient conversations. That is a violation! It's like client/ attorney. You can't tell the world these things!

One of the things I wanted help in is ... I don't trust anyone ... especially doctors, therapists and the police.

I guess revealing all my confidential data helps! Yeah!

Originally Posted by justafriend306

I have already proven myself to be a hardliner. The way I see it, if your therapist asked you about firearms possession, she had good reason to and no I don't see this as infringing on your rights. She has a duty to ensure the safety of you, the people around you, and the public at large.

Good Reason it was my first visit ... 4 min into our conversation ... she knew nothing about me

I guess you are one of those that don't care about US Laws! Tell the legislators this ... It was passed!

I follow the law ... maybe you are a criminal

Originally Posted by justafriend306

I am greatly troubled here.

I think you owe it to yourself to be entirely honest with your mentalhealth caregivers. How can they properly treat you if you aren't. By the very fact you see one indicates an interest in improving your state of mental health. To be less than honest defeats the purpose, doesn't it? Right

Similarly, you owe it to others - and not just those close to you. If you are sick enough that you are having dangerous thoughts, you should be under more intensive care.

I am pretty sure that no matter your region that your psychiatrist owes an obligation to society and its safety first. Not even a clergy person can use the argument of privilege with respect to information regarding public safety.

Didn't know that about priests in confession ... at least Catholic ... it is privledged information ... I think you are wrong

[Olanza-what?]

I was also betrayed by the system twice, the second time; I made a call, never once saying that I had intent on doing something wrong, I just wanted to talk/vent and in less than 5 minutes on the phone, my home was surrounded by what looked like to me, the entire police force. Both experiences traumatized me beyond comprehension and to have it happen to me twice has totally destroyed my trust and willingness to communicate the truths. I felt and still feel like a walking insurance target.

It took a long, long time to trust anyone. a few months ago, my therapist threatened to have me committed. I assured her that I was okay....and I've not shared another thing with her, not my thoughts, plans etc. I totally trusted her and I've been seeing her for 3 years now. If I can't talk out what I am thinking and feeling instead of being persecuted for feeling at all, then why bother with any of it? Why take the meds? why go to talk therapy? I've spent the last few months back at square one. It took 5 years to build up trust towards the medical professionals and a 1 hour conversation to destroy it all. Now I have nothing, no one, just pills and my intrusive and complete deranged thoughts.

[winter loneliness]

I once said to my therapist "I'm so mad I could kill him." in a very overdramatic, sarcastic non-violent way.

She looked at me and said in a serious but joking way, " watch it, Don't say that."

I thought it was weird because I use a lot of slang and expressions and I cuss a lot in therapy. She has been my therapist for 6 yrs.

[wordshaker]

I agree with others to exercise caution if you are in any kind of particularly vulnerable situation. The only abuse my mentally ill / neuro impaired daughter ever suffered during her childhood was in psych hospitals, and upon recommendations of people we trusted and upon promises of help that never materialized. Many mental health professionals are self-serving liars who will screw you while looking like heroes. Many are covert narcissists, or other variations of power-based pathologies. Like see-saw said, trust must be earned.

Originally Posted by Moderation

Didn't know that about priests in confession ... at least Catholic ... it is privledged information ... I think you are wrong

----- Nope -------

"Religious practice will be respected by Canadian courts, particularly when it is documented or the expectation of confidentiality is clearly expressed, but confidentiality of ‘religious communications’ has no comprehensive protection."

[kecanoe]

In my location, Illinois, clergy are not mandated reporters for child abuse. We are not legally required to report things to authorities. Ethically required, perhaps, but not legally.

We are not legally required to report to authorities if we learn that a person has committed a crime. Ethically, perhaps. But not legally.

This does vary by state (again, only speaking of the US).

For OP, my Ts have all said that everything is confidential except a clear threat to self or others. So a crime in my past would fall under their confidentiality agreement. Can you ask your T what their policy is? If you are abusing someone, your best course of action would be to get them somewhere safe while you work on whatever issues you have that are leading to the abuse.

[mugwort2]

This is a truly tough one to call If one is an immediate danger to self or others that initially sounds like a time to tell your therapist or pdoc. Conversely the way some members here describe psych hospitals or psych wards it sounds like a rather difficult decision to tell or not to tell. I can't imagine any place more depression than either place to somebody who is suicidal IMHO the MH system long way to go to reach even minimal decency, effectiveness in care.

Originally Posted by splitimage

I don't know what the laws are where you are, so they may be different from where I am. \

Here in ON, the only circumstances where a counsellor can breach confidentiality and notify the authorities are:
- when you are a danger to yourself or others,
- There is abuse of a child under the age of 16 involved.
`- You have driven drunk (MD's only)
- You've been abused by another health care professional
- Your records are subpoenaed by the court for something.

Of course there may be other circumstances where they have to release details of your case, such as with insurance, a lawyer, another Dr., but you have to sign a health release from ok'ing the release.

splitimage

this is a GREAT reply THANKS it seems you know what you're talking about ... great advice

Originally Posted by justafriend306

Hmmm, why wouldn't a professional act upon such information?

because it's like an attorney ... you can't breach confidentiality ... that is against the LAW