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  #426  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lucozader View Post
'Ello Couch What have I missed?
Hi. I've been missing things lately too.

Art- Glad to hear your h is on the road to recovery.
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  #427  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post

But yeah, it's like MC has me in this particular role in his mind. The adoring patient who is dependent on him and idealizes him and also cares about him, who takes his word as gospel. He knows how to act toward that person. And that person poses no threat to him. He has no need to examine himself--he can put it all on me--stuff from my past, my parents, etc. But now I'm standing up to him and questioning things and being critical--he's threatened in a way. And he doesn't know how to act toward me now..
This reminds me of an article I was assigned to read as part of a professional development day. It was about the way adolescence affects a father/ daughter relationship sometimes for myriad reasons. I wonder if MC did foster some growth for you within his own paradigm and role of caring parent, and then you simply , inevitable, and naturally outgrew him in that role? The problem is there isn't an easy way to recast him in a symbolic role as parent of an older younger you( if you know what I mean) because he is MC instead of a personal T.

I would be very upset about all this if I were H. This is where MC baffles me. He seems to have triangulated himself into your M when he is the C.
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  #428  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
It was about the way adolescence affects a father/ daughter relationship sometimes for myriad reasons. I wonder if MC did foster some growth for you within his own paradigm and role of caring parent, and then you simply , inevitable, and naturally outgrew him in that role?
I think this happens a lot and explains much of the mutual frustration of therapy.
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  #429  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NP_Complete View Post
Even if it is romantic love, isn't it part of his job to deal with it? He seems to be really hung up on the nature of your love for him. He should deal with his own feelings on his own time and treat whatever love you feel for him as the transference that it is. I'm sorry you have all this turmoil to deal with. I'm glad you have T to help you through this.
Thanks, NP. I also don't understand why he's hung up on the sort of love and why he doesn't just think this is part of the transference. Especially because he tends to attribute a lot of things I do/feel regarding him to that. Plus, it's not the first time I've shared love feelings for him (it had been more than a year, but still...) And when I initially told him about the transference a couple years ago, I had thought it was erotic, then later realized it was mostly paternal...
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  #430  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
This reminds me of an article I was assigned to read as part of a professional development day. It was about the way adolescence affects a father/ daughter relationship sometimes for myriad reasons. I wonder if MC did foster some growth for you within his own paradigm and role of caring parent, and then you simply , inevitable, and naturally outgrew him in that role? The problem is there isn't an easy way to recast him in a symbolic role as parent of an older younger you( if you know what I mean) because he is MC instead of a personal T.
Thanks, SE--that makes some sense. I did think at one point that maybe I was going through almost a teenager phase with MC. Fighting back against him more, then feeling disconnected, then feeling really connected, like a teen who's trying to gain their independence but isn't ready for it yet. You'd think he'd have been particularly equipped to deal with me in that phase, though, since the main focus of his work is teens... Then again, it may have been more that I was changing, so he wasn't sure how to deal with me or what I wanted from him.

Quote:
I would be very upset about all this if I were H. This is where MC baffles me. He seems to have triangulated himself into your M when he is the C.
Yeah...I feel like MC is trying to correct for some of that now, but it went on for a long time. Or are you talking more about his discussing the romantic love stuff?
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  #431  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
I think this happens a lot and explains much of the mutual frustration of therapy.
I think this may have been part of what happened with ex-T. Because I'd been with her for 6 years, maybe it's like I outgrew her. But from things she said, it's like she still saw me as the person who had walked into her office 6 years before and treating me as that version of myself. Whereas my new T is seeing me as I am now and treating that person.
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  #432  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 04:09 PM
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LT, your h sounds like my brother. No matter what kind of crisis is going on around, he's on his phone, checking scores or playing fantasy whatevers. I think it's how he deals with stress, so maybe that's the case with your h as well. He's way more supportive than anyone I know would be in a similar situation, which amounts to a kind of emotional love affair happening in front of him. The safety net is that it's with your marriage counselor, but it has always come across as romantic to me (I think I even asked you once if you were in love with him and you said you were expecting someone to ask that). It's not wrong or bad, but it's hard to fix a car by working on a bicycle just because a bicycle feels safer. Think about whenever someone has been attracted to you, like over the top attracted...you know it whether they admit it or not. People around you notice it.

To answer your question about your mc feeling the same way, I only have your reports to go on, and I would say there hasn't been anything to suggest that, especially with the illness and then death of his wife. You're kind of flirty, so that will color a lot of how you see your interactions, I'm guessing.

So yes...your mc has handled things wrong for you, and it created more anxiety and need for reassurance. I guess the main thing now isn't so much what kind of insight or internal work he is going to do, but what kind of insights into yourself has this brought about? Because that's really all you have control over.

This is the hard work, really (at least, it is for me whenever I've had therapy explode), to step back and say, What's going on with me and what can I do differently? Because even though your therapist is holding the boundaries you find helpful, it's just not a long term winning strategy to ask that other people do things to keep us from ourselves. At some point, we go, okay, I can limit myself, or I don't need someone to do or say X to make me feel better. This is sounding preachy and I don't mean it to be. It's more about what I've learned for myself over time. I hope you know that I get how painful this has been, and I don't mean to diminish it. At some point, though, there's going to be a path forward that you set for yourself. And you'll be glad to never go through this again.
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  #433  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 04:13 PM
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Your willingness to tell MC how you felt about him amazes me. I'm a complete coward when it comes to sharing with my therapist how I feel about him. The most I've shared in 1.5 years is that I was rather fond of him (in an email) and that I'd miss him over his vacation (in person). After I posted on here a week or so ago that I felt love for him, I thought about sharing that with him, mainly because I wanted to get his take on what una said about it being transference after him reprimanding me. But I just couldn't gather enough courage to show him my post. I don't know how he'd take it. If he took it and reacted like MC did, I would be devastated. I think he's a little more self-aware than MC is, but I'm still scared to do it.
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  #434  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NP_Complete View Post
Your willingness to tell MC how you felt about him amazes me. I'm a complete coward when it comes to sharing with my therapist how I feel about him. The most I've shared in 1.5 years is that I was rather fond of him (in an email) and that I'd miss him over his vacation (in person). After I posted on here a week or so ago that I felt love for him, I thought about sharing that with him, mainly because I wanted to get his take on what una said about it being transference after him reprimanding me. But I just couldn't gather enough courage to show him my post. I don't know how he'd take it. If he took it and reacted like MC did, I would be devastated. I think he's a little more self-aware than MC is, but I'm still scared to do it.
The thing is, he was awesome when I first told him about the transference a couple years ago, and in the couple individual sessions we had after that, then for the most part going forward. Like very accepting, still acting the same toward me, still shaking my hand, not acting like I had once I once called (to my T) "attachment cooties." It just seems like the word "love" is what he gets weird about--it's happened pretty much each of the times I've mentioned it (which is three over the past few years). And I've never said it in person--once on phone (with that, he was accepting at first, then a few days later got weird about some stuff and seemed to be pushing me away), then twice over e-mail.

But I get the sense on here that some T's are fine about love. Maybe just tell him something like you feel safe with him? Or attached to him?

And I've tended to be someone who ends up letting people know my feelings. Have I often gotten hurt because of that? Definitely! But sometimes it's like I just have to share it or else know if the other person shares the feelings (like when I was dating). It's this weird thing where I both want to be accepted for who I am and whatever I'm feeling but am also terrified of rejection for those feelings...
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  #435  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
LT, your h sounds like my brother. No matter what kind of crisis is going on around, he's on his phone, checking scores or playing fantasy whatevers. I think it's how he deals with stress, so maybe that's the case with your h as well. He's way more supportive than anyone I know would be in a similar situation, which amounts to a kind of emotional love affair happening in front of him. The safety net is that it's with your marriage counselor, but it has always come across as romantic to me (I think I even asked you once if you were in love with him and you said you were expecting someone to ask that). It's not wrong or bad, but it's hard to fix a car by working on a bicycle just because a bicycle feels safer. Think about whenever someone has been attracted to you, like over the top attracted...you know it whether they admit it or not. People around you notice it.

To answer your question about your mc feeling the same way, I only have your reports to go on, and I would say there hasn't been anything to suggest that, especially with the illness and then death of his wife. You're kind of flirty, so that will color a lot of how you see your interactions, I'm guessing.

So yes...your mc has handled things wrong for you, and it created more anxiety and need for reassurance. I guess the main thing now isn't so much what kind of insight or internal work he is going to do, but what kind of insights into yourself has this brought about? Because that's really all you have control over.

This is the hard work, really (at least, it is for me whenever I've had therapy explode), to step back and say, What's going on with me and what can I do differently? Because even though your therapist is holding the boundaries you find helpful, it's just not a long term winning strategy to ask that other people do things to keep us from ourselves. At some point, we go, okay, I can limit myself, or I don't need someone to do or say X to make me feel better. This is sounding preachy and I don't mean it to be. It's more about what I've learned for myself over time. I hope you know that I get how painful this has been, and I don't mean to diminish it. At some point, though, there's going to be a path forward that you set for yourself. And you'll be glad to never go through this again.
(will respond a bit later, heading out door)
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  #436  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 05:28 PM
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LT, I think I've said before that my feeling always was that while you turned toward MC you turned away from H, he has had the patience to sit through all this and I'm not sure I would. Your MC made mistakes, in some ways similar to my T2, I'm not sure if going over those mistakes again and again will heal, maybe it will? Maybe you will just learn more about the ineptness and clumsy handling by MC. Maybe it's so far damaged that no apology on his part can "fix" it and now it is time to work on you and to work on what led you down the path you have been on.

I say this without judgement because I was very focused on T1, I lost all sight of my spouse and coming out of it I realised just how much I needed spouse, You could make the next appointment for a month from now and take the time to reflect on your marriage and yourself?

Last edited by JaneTennison1; Jan 24, 2018 at 07:16 PM.
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  #437  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by QuietMind View Post
I wish your T gave you out of session contact, too, BCM.
He says its not good for me, i dont know when to stop.
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  #438  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 06:40 PM
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So the doctor said today that he wants to keep h in the hospital til Friday at the earliest. He's still on the 2 round-the-clock IV antibiotics. H is feeling better this afternoon. I tried to get the doctor to tell me somehting today, but he was in and out so fast he just ignored me, i want to know what are the chances his fever might spike again and he get worse, and if that happens, what if i'm at work? He wants me with him at the hospital til he's released and I want to be, of course. I'm hating myself for feeling this, for even caring about my job at all right now, but being honest, I feel guilty taking any more time off from work even though he's still in the hospital, still on the IV antibiotics. it was pretty scary before his temperature started coming down and he started feeling better. What is wrong with me that I'm even thinking about my job right now? My h should be my only concern!! Gah! should i even be thinking about work?!?!
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  #439  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 06:51 PM
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well that relieves my mind a lot. i'd emailed my boss earlier asking about being off the rest of the week if it would be an issue explained the situation fully and he said that it would probably be best if i do just wait until Monday to go back that way it's just one occurrence in case his fever goes back up or something and he gets worse. he feels better today, so i'm really hopeful that nothing worse is going to happen, but when the doctor told us normally he would release him tomorrow morning but some of the bloodwork they did last night determined he should keep him through friday. that's what made me nervous i guess.
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  #440  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 06:58 PM
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Ok, day of Doc appointments for me. Leg is doing great. Might have finally turned the corner there. Come back in 6 wks, sooner if problems.

Also, saw sleep med today. They said apnea well managed with CPAP, that my restlessness/awakenings are mostly spontaneous ... 11 due to breathing, 2 from body movement 39 spontaneous. He wants to send me to a Sleep T for CBT-I therapy (insomnia). I'll check with my T first and see if she has this knowledge in her toolbox. I already see her 2x week, and a MC 3x month. Don't really want to add another T to the mix.

I have blood work scheduled this Sat to check hormone and thyroid levels.
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  #441  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:00 PM
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Art I'm glad he's improved! And it's not bad or shameful that you're worried about work and your absence during a mandatory overtime month. It's your livelihood and you will need a source of income after H is healed and home, of course you have concerns. Take care of yourself too please!
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  #442  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BlessedCheeseMaker View Post
He says its not good for me, i don't know when to stop.
Maybe a flat refusal is kinder in the long run and leads to better growth?

Starting to realise: when T says no, it gives you an opportunity to explore why you wanted it and what other ways there might be to get your needs met. Which won't happen if T says yes.

PS:

Madame T was very weak on "other ways", however. "You'll have to work that out for yourself."
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  #443  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn View Post
What is wrong with me that I'm even thinking about my job right now?
There are two very good reasons why you might be doing this:
1. The work needs to be done.
2. In a crisis you can do very little about, keeping up your routine may help you cope.
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  #444  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:24 PM
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Potential email to Madame T:

Dear T,
I have an insight I'd like to share with you.

In hindsight, I realise it might have been better had you told me that you couldn't be my mother, with the same clarity and firmness that you told me you couldn't be my friend. I would have fought you, of course. But we might then have talked about why I still needed a mother in my life, what my underlying needs were and what other options I had for satisfying them.

That wouldn't have solved all our problems, but I think it might have helped.
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  #445  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
Pondering a few things egarding last night's phone call with MC--one about H and two about MC. The phone call was with both H and me, using my cell's speakerphone.

H question first: H was playing a video game on his computer during the whole call. Would this bother anyone else? I know he probably figured it was just between me and MC (MC had suggested all 3 of us be on call), but I'd also talked to H like a half hour beforehand and asked him to chime in on occasion, especially regarding something he'd said in our conversation about MC last week--how he was thinking during Friday's session that he wished MC had shown more humanity toward me instead of just being in therapist mode. I still had to basically whisper to him what I wanted him to say during the call. Yeah, it went much longer than we'd expected it to, but he was playing the video game from the very start.

MC question 1: The topic of the "love" e-mail from December came up. MC insisted during the call that, even though I'd sent an e-mail afterward clarifying that it was platonic, he still thought it was romantic love. And he also said he thought the same after the phone call from December, when I'd reiterated that it was platonic. So essentially, our marriage counselor, on a call with both me and H, was insisting that what I'd expressed to him was romantic love--and that it was a big part of why he'd wanted to pull back on contact. Is that...appropriate? I mean, it's one thing if I'm sitting in session with my individual T and he's pressing the topic. But for our marriage counselor to press it, basically like, "I know you feel romantic love for me"--that's weird, right?

MC question 2: MC told me that some stuff I'd said in past month or so had hurt him (like my being critical of things he's done). And that he'd felt frustrated with me on multiple occasions recently. I said I thought that therapists were just supposed to deal with feelings like that on their own rather than sharing them with clients. MC seemed to disagree (he has said in the past that I shouldn't worry about his feelings...). Should therapists be sharing feelings like that with their clients? Also consider that in this case...it's my marriage counselor...

Just trying to parse some stuff from the call--basically having a mix of "MC still cares about me" and "MC was kind of being a jerk" and "Much of this is coming from countertransference stuff, MC's issues, not so much me or something I did." Which...actually probably is a good balance to have...
About H: My situation is somewhat similar. H and I started MC, resolved our initial issues, MC offered to go into more depth with us because he thought it would result in more emotional intimacy. We agreed, did IFS together for a while, and then I started falling apart. Unbeknownst to all of us was that I have DID. T1 had no experience with DID and I went a few years of declining mental health before my pdoc realized what I was dealing with. During that time, I became intensely attached to T1, and H stopped seeing T1 because he didn't like IFS. H would go to some sessions with me. H was pretty perturbed with T1; thought that T1 had encouraged me to break down defenses that would have been better left in place. I had all kinds of outside contact with T1 and was seeing him 5 days a week. If your H is like mine, he may be feeling angry that MC allowed this situation to develop, angry that that MC is now not being as supportive, angry that all you did was what MC said would be ok and now suddenly it is not, angry that MC encouraged you to go places that you were concerned about going, and more. It may be all that H can do is be physically present because H doesn't want to add to your misery and confusion by expressing all of the above. In a way, he is showing confidence that you will work this out.

As to the other things you mentioned, MC is just continuing to do what he has previously done. He has (sometimes) insisted that you talk about your transference with H in the room. He has (sometimes) shared feelings with you. I think those things are more a matter of the way MC operates and that he will probably continue to do those things. I think it is up to you at this point whether you want to continue to see him, given that he operates this way.

I think you get credit for being willing to question this relationship and to draw some boundaries with MC. For me, the sense of being safe, accepted, reassured, "held" fills such a deep need that parts of me are willing to go to any length to get them. Perhaps your experience with MC has served a purpose in allowing that unmet need to get met to the point that you are willing/able to separate, kind of in the way that a teen will start questioning her parents and making decisions about what she wants (if you subscribe to that kind of theory about therapy).
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  #446  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:43 PM
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Artie - do you need to take the time as Family Leave? I dont know anything about this. Plus, please dont worry too much about the mandatory OT - remember, you already cleared the backlog in your section so much that you guys were helping out another section!
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  #447  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
Maybe a flat refusal is kinder in the long run and leads to better growth?

Starting to realise: when T says no, it gives you an opportunity to explore why you wanted it and what other ways there might be to get your needs met. Which won't happen if T says yes.
I agree, though I am glad that there have been very few no's and many of them phrased in such a way that they did not sound like no even though it was clear she was not going to provide whatever my ask was - such as, I can see how important that is to you, I will be out of town on that day. Or, I'd prefer not to answer that at this time, can you tell me .... Or, I think doing that would limit our ability to explore something else....
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  #448  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 07:50 PM
Anonymous43207
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
Artie - do you need to take the time as Family Leave? I dont know anything about this. Plus, please dont worry too much about the mandatory OT - remember, you already cleared the backlog in your section so much that you guys were helping out another section!
True. And i talked to one of my teammates and she said they've said our overtime is done anyway. It's that "good little girl" thing that because he's no longer in danger (apparently sepsis is not something you mess around with) I feel like I should run right back to work. Even though I haven't slept much since this started and am getting a bit run down. I need to take better care of myself too.

I just called my mom again and cried on her telephonic shoulder for a good half hour. she's really being helpful. and she said she wants to send us some money to help pay for the hospital bill because she still has money leftover from selling her house/land, that she's already given some of to my other siblings for other things. i can't believe she's the same mother i grew up with. i felt so much love coming from her just now on the phone i've never felt from her before and i don't quite know what to think. I've been holding it together so well at the hospital and with my son and when I talk to her and she's so helpful i just lose it and start bawling.
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  #449  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 08:05 PM
Elio Elio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn View Post
True. And i talked to one of my teammates and she said they've said our overtime is done anyway. It's that "good little girl" thing that because he's no longer in danger (apparently sepsis is not something you mess around with) I feel like I should run right back to work. Even though I haven't slept much since this started and am getting a bit run down. I need to take better care of myself too.

I just called my mom again and cried on her telephonic shoulder for a good half hour. she's really being helpful. and she said she wants to send us some money to help pay for the hospital bill because she still has money leftover from selling her house/land, that she's already given some of to my other siblings for other things. i can't believe she's the same mother i grew up with. i felt so much love coming from her just now on the phone i've never felt from her before and i don't quite know what to think. I've been holding it together so well at the hospital and with my son and when I talk to her and she's so helpful i just lose it and start bawling.
Yes, when I was in the hospital for my leg, they all were like umm yep admit, yep IV Antibiotics and by the way we signed you for a surgery, just in case... but really you are going in for surgery so get prepared for it. For me after the first 36 hours on IV antibiotics my fever was done, head ache gone and I felt pretty darn good, except leg hurt. They don't mess around with it at all.

On the topic of your mother, my mom recently told me she loved me after not having that in my memory at all. I'm not prepared for her to be "good" mom after all these years, I'm still very angry with her I guess. How are you dealing with it?
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Anonymous45127, CantExplain, unaluna
  #450  
Old Jan 24, 2018, 08:12 PM
kecanoe kecanoe is offline
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Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 3,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn View Post
True. And i talked to one of my teammates and she said they've said our overtime is done anyway. It's that "good little girl" thing that because he's no longer in danger (apparently sepsis is not something you mess around with) I feel like I should run right back to work. Even though I haven't slept much since this started and am getting a bit run down. I need to take better care of myself too.

I just called my mom again and cried on her telephonic shoulder for a good half hour. she's really being helpful. and she said she wants to send us some money to help pay for the hospital bill because she still has money leftover from selling her house/land, that she's already given some of to my other siblings for other things. i can't believe she's the same mother i grew up with. i felt so much love coming from her just now on the phone i've never felt from her before and i don't quite know what to think. I've been holding it together so well at the hospital and with my son and when I talk to her and she's so helpful i just lose it and start bawling.
That's awesome. Go Mom!

And, take the time. Sepsis is a big deal, you need the rest, and H needs your support.
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127, CantExplain, LonesomeTonight, unaluna
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