[DP_2017]

Hi all

As some of you know, I had a rupture last week with my T for opening up about hopes of friendship after therapy and his reaction and excuses left me feeling so worthless and confused...after the way he had been with me for many many months.

We are ok I guess, he isn't mad or weirded out, we talked it out the best it can be and he is still trying his hardest to keep things feeling the same.... only thing is, they don't.

For so long, he truly made me feel like I matter, like he cared... I was happy more than I have been in a long time and I felt good about myself. I had some hope for my future.

Then all this came crashing down and all I could see was him being fake. Him "pretending" with me all this time for his job. I can no longer look at him with excitement and happy feelings but rather sad and confused feelings. I trust him mostly but not the same level I once did.

The reality of it all has hit me and I really have no idea how to keep trying therapy when this is constantly on my mind but I do wanna try and I don't want anyone new

The thing is, know I know I'm just a paycheck, I'm just a date on his calendar. I AM replaceable. When I finish someday, someone new will take my place... I wont matter anymore, I will be forgotten. I can't deal with this feeling, it's making me sick and feeling so so worthless but it is reality. How does one try to deal with and accept this reality so they can move forward in treatment? (even if I did see someone new as people often suggest, I would still feel this way...because it is the crap reality of therapy)

[Myrto]

I really think therapy can still be useful even when you know/realize that this is a unnatural and artificial relationship. I know people disagree with this but it's obvious to me that therapists are mostly acting and pretending to care (whatever "care" means). It's fine with me, I just wish they were more honest about this for the sake of their clients. You can have a realistic approach towards therapists and therapy and still find it useful to talk about specific goals you want to reach/vent, etc.

[Elio]

A couple of things that have helped me through these types of feelings are...
- when I get to the place where I won't be seeing T any more or not as frequent and someone has "replaced" me. I won't be needing/wanting her as much and to some degree she will have been "replaced" as well. Until then, I can keep seeing her. I do plan on seeing her at some frequency for the rest of my life, or until she retires, that is one way I deal with the concept of therapy ending. For me, I don't see it ever ending; just getting less frequent.
- I am not just a paycheck and I know this because of how she is with me when she is not getting paid for things (between session contacts, visiting me at the hospital), this does come up for me from time to time. I have to remember that she doesn't have to offer between session contacts or video visits when she is away from the office.
- I also am "pretending" on a level, I suspend my disbelief for periods of time that allow me to access emotions that I would not otherwise be able to access, by fully embracing my transference
- I remember that T is what I need/make of her right now. I need T to play this role in my life because, hopefully/eventually I'll have friends but there are not that many T's that I will be able to connect with on this level, it would be harder to find another T and have her as my friend.
- I get something from T that her friends and family probably don't... that is the one-sideness of the relationship. During my time with her, she is totally and completely focused on me and my experience (s). With friendships that is not the case. I know if I was to see her much outside the office, I would see other sides of her that would result in me not being able to do the work I am doing with her.

Is my T pretending? Yes, no, maybe? I think it is different than pretending. I think a good T is being genuine in their responses and interactions with their clients. I do believe that we do not see all the parts of a T, and honestly I don't think it is good if we would. So, from that perspective, it is compartmentalized for our T's. Does that make it less than real? I tend to believe it is that we see a part of the real T, just not all of the real T.

Yes, I have found it very difficult when the therapeutic frame has been punctured. I go through my own processing of it until I have patched (the image of fixing a bicycle's tire comes to mind). Once patched, often times I am able to dig deeper into something. Sometimes though it takes a while to find the hole, or to get it patched well enough that it doesn't just shred up the tire.

BTW - I am replaceable is a core belief for me. I get how painful it is to believe and feel like one is replaceable. The truth is, there is only one you. You are unique not only because we each are unique, but also because we have a unique set of experiences and histories. You are the only one with your story. He will not hear another story just like yours - sure maybe similar, never exactly the same story as yours with the way (struggles and strengths displayed) you tell your story.

[rainbow8]

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Elio

A couple of things that have helped me through these types of feelings are...
- when I get to the place where I won't be seeing T any more or not as frequent and someone has "replaced" me. I won't be needing/wanting her as much and to some degree she will have been "replaced" as well. Until then, I can keep seeing her. I do plan on seeing her at some frequency for the rest of my life, or until she retires, that is one way I deal with the concept of therapy ending. For me, I don't see it ever ending; just getting less frequent.
- I am not just a paycheck and I know this because of how she is with me when she is not getting paid for things (between session contacts, visiting me at the hospital), this does come up for me from time to time. I have to remember that she doesn't have to offer between session contacts or video visits when she is away from the office.
- I also am "pretending" on a level, I suspend my disbelief for periods of time that allow me to access emotions that I would not otherwise be able to access, by fully embracing my transference
- I remember that T is what I need/make of her right now. I need T to play this role in my life because, hopefully/eventually I'll have friends but there are not that many T's that I will be able to connect with on this level, it would be harder to find another T and have her as my friend.
- I get something from T that her friends and family probably don't... that is the one-sideness of the relationship. During my time with her, she is totally and completely focused on me and my experience (s). With friendships that is not the case. I know if I was to see her much outside the office, I would see other sides of her that would result in me not being able to do the work I am doing with her.

Is my T pretending? Yes, no, maybe? I think it is different than pretending. I think a good T is being genuine in their responses and interactions with their clients. I do believe that we do not see all the parts of a T, and honestly I don't think it is good if we would. So, from that perspective, it is compartmentalized for our T's. Does that make it less than real? I tend to believe it is that we see a part of the real T, just not all of the real T.

Yes, I have found it very difficult when the therapeutic frame has been punctured. I go through my own processing of it until I have patched (the image of fixing a bicycle's tire comes to mind). Once patched, often times I am able to dig deeper into something. Sometimes though it takes a while to find the hole, or to get it patched well enough that it doesn't just shred up the tire.

BTW - I am replaceable is a core belief for me. I get how painful it is to believe and feel like one is replaceable. The truth is, there is only one you. You are unique not only because we each are unique, but also because we have a unique set of experiences and histories. You are the only one with your story. He will not hear another story just like yours - sure maybe similar, never exactly the same story as yours with the way (struggles and strengths displayed) you tell your story.

Great and helpful response. Makes a lot of sense.... I guess the pretending aspect from me comes from him making me feel like he was a friend and then taking it all back, I felt like I was used and betrayed. That whatever bond I thought we had, was just part of his job, and not actually real.

I know he does a lot of stuff, well did, probably wont anymore, outside sessions for me for no charge, so like you, it got me to believe he truly did care. Now it feels like that may be different. Is he doing it because it wants to or because he feels like he has to? Thats' the question I'm struggling with.

I wish I could see him the same as I did before, even if it was pretend. I at least felt good about myself. I wish I had never said anything but I did and now I have to deal with the weird feelings, although he isn't acting different, its just me who sees things different.

The last thing you wrote is very true, although I struggle and always have, to believe that I am memorable in any form. My dogs sure, but not me. I think he would probably remember my case in some form because of my dogs. I guess that's ok with me though.

Thanks again for this reply.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

For so long, he truly made me feel like I matter, like he cared... I was happy more than I have been in a long time and I felt good about myself. I had some hope for my future.

For me, and these kinds of feelings came up inside and outside of therapy, I found that working to feel like I mattered and feel how other people cared for me was what I needed to do. For me it was hard to accept others' caring and love. Hard to see it, hard to feel it. Like finding the hidden objects in those coloring pages or unscrambling the words. It was there all the time. And it was really about me feeling okay with myself, not what other people did or didn't do.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

For me, and these kinds of feelings came up inside and outside of therapy, I found that working to feel like I mattered and feel how other people cared for me was what I needed to do. For me it was hard to accept others' caring and love. Hard to see it, hard to feel it. Like finding the hidden objects in those coloring pages or unscrambling the words. It was there all the time. And it was really about me feeling okay with myself, not what other people did or didn't do.

Makes sense, I've struggled with self worth so much my whole life, it's one of the issues I wanted to work through in therapy but obviously I have made no progress with yet. I do need to work on it though in some form.

[stopdog]

Clients are replaceable and therapists are replaceable. Everyone is replaceable in some ways. One existed before hiring the therapist and one will usually exist after the therapist's engagement. They do need clients to make their living even where they do not need any specific client.
It never bothered me because I never found the therapist to be someone I would like in real life. I could mostly abide the woman for a short time each week. But I doubt she was someone I would want in my real life.

[LonesomeTonight]

I understand this fear. Part of what's made it so difficult for me to officially terminate with MC is the thought that he seemed to care so much about me and then...when we terminate, will that caring just totally go away? Like flipping off a switch? When I asked him about it, he said it wouldn't, that the caring would still be there.

When I asked current T (before asking MC), I said, regarding MC, I feared the caring would go away, that there would be one less person in the world who cared about me. T said he didn't think that would be the case. How with former clients, he might think about them less often than when he was seeing them, but he still cares. So that made me feel better.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I understand this fear. Part of what's made it so difficult for me to officially terminate with MC is the thought that he seemed to care so much about me and then...when we terminate, will that caring just totally go away? Like flipping off a switch? When I asked him about it, he said it wouldn't, that the caring would still be there.

When I asked current T (before asking MC), I said, regarding MC, I feared the caring would go away, that there would be one less person in the world who cared about me. T said he didn't think that would be the case. How with former clients, he might think about them less often than when he was seeing them, but he still cares. So that made me feel better.

Maybe when therapy ends for me I wont care about him anymore so it wont be hard but I'm glad you get it.

Not sure at this point, for me, him saying he would still care after would work, I am struggling so much to believe him, since his words and actions have not matched up well for months. I'm very confused overall.

I'm glad it helped you though, you sound like you have a good T

[Elio]

One thing that helped me believe that the caring was real was one time I asked her to think of me over the weekend and her immediate without pause answer was "I do". It wasn't a "I will" and there was no pause for her to think about how to respond.

I wish I could see him the same as I did before, even if it was pretend. I at least felt good about myself. I wish I had never said anything but I did and now I have to deal with the weird feelings, although he isn't acting different, its just me who sees things different.

One part of the pretend for me was when I hit things like this was to make the conscience choice to believe. Oddly, that was easier than I thought it would be at times. Perhaps that is because I want the end goals, I believe T can help me get there, and that level of belief is enough.

Relationships are like what you are experiencing right now. People disappoint us, learning how to not let that disappointment cloud everything about the person is part of learning how to be in relationships/friendships (well for me it is).

[WarmFuzzySocks]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Makes sense, I've struggled with self worth so much my whole life, it's one of the issues I wanted to work through in therapy but obviously I have made no progress with yet. I do need to work on it though in some form.

((DP))
Maybe this is the beginning of working through it in therapy? I see you really looking at this and examining what it means to feel cared for. It’s hard to hold side-by-side the relationship you thought you had and this shift in the relationship.

I think of the caring in the therapeutic relationship as similar to that of a teacher with students. When I taught littles, I genuinely cared for them. But they weren’t mine. They moved in and out of my life. But that doesn’t diminish the care I had for them, and I still think of them fondly.

[maybeblue]

I don't think that you are replaceable, I don't think he will forget you, and I don't think that the feelings that he expresses to you are "fake."

The reason I think this is because of an experience I had right out of college. It was different in most ways than being a therapist, but the same in others. I took care of people with developmental disabilities. I did job coaching with them too. I was paid to do it. It was a very one way relationship. They needed me in a way that I didn't need them. But I loved them. For real. Over 20 years later I still think about them pretty frequently. I wonder where they are and if they are OK. When one of them died unexpectedly I grieved for him. I still think about him too. He was really fun. Exasperating sometimes, but still pretty fun.

I'm sure that if a therapist sees a client for two or three sessions, that client probably blends into a lot of the rest he only sees a few times. But I imagine the ones that he sees frequently for months and years, he remembers and really cares about. How could he not? It isn't the same as a "real" friendship, but I'm not sure that it is less than a friendship either.

My guess is that your therapist told you that friendship wasn't possible after therapy, not because he doesn't really care about you, or because he doesn't think you are someone he could be friends with, or even because he didn't want to get into trouble with his licensing board. My guess is that he told you that because he felt like saying "yes" would be harmful to you. Maybe he feared that you would "rush" through the therapy phase of your relationship to get to the friend part. Or maybe he imagined a scenario where you and he were out with other friends and he accidentally mentioned something that he only knew about because of the things that you shared with him in therapy. Anyway, it's a possibility.

[Elio]

Originally Posted by maybeblue

The reason I think this is because of an experience I had right out of college. It was different in most ways than being a therapist, but the same in others. I took care of people with developmental disabilities. I did job coaching with them too. I was paid to do it. It was a very one way relationship. They needed me in a way that I didn't need them. But I loved them. For real. Over 20 years later I still think about them pretty frequently. I wonder where they are and if they are OK. When one of them died unexpectedly I grieved for him. I still think about him too. He was really fun. Exasperating sometimes, but still pretty fun.

Good example. I did the same think in my mid 20's and I'll turn 50 this year and I still think of them, sometimes more than others. I still wonder how they are doing and what they are doing. I too was sad to learn of the passing of one of them.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Hi all

As some of you know, I had a rupture last week with my T for opening up about hopes of friendship after therapy and his reaction and excuses left me feeling so worthless and confused...after the way he had been with me for many many months.

We are ok I guess, he isn't mad or weirded out, we talked it out the best it can be and he is still trying his hardest to keep things feeling the same.... only thing is, they don't.

For so long, he truly made me feel like I matter, like he cared... I was happy more than I have been in a long time and I felt good about myself. I had some hope for my future.

Then all this came crashing down and all I could see was him being fake. Him "pretending" with me all this time for his job. I can no longer look at him with excitement and happy feelings but rather sad and confused feelings. I trust him mostly but not the same level I once did.

The reality of it all has hit me and I really have no idea how to keep trying therapy when this is constantly on my mind but I do wanna try and I don't want anyone new

The thing is, know I know I'm just a paycheck, I'm just a date on his calendar. I AM replaceable. When I finish someday, someone new will take my place... I wont matter anymore, I will be forgotten. I can't deal with this feeling, it's making me sick and feeling so so worthless but it is reality. How does one try to deal with and accept this reality so they can move forward in treatment? (even if I did see someone new as people often suggest, I would still feel this way...because it is the crap reality of therapy)

So sorry about this harsh situation within a milieu that once made you feel safe and hopeful. It's hard to read through the lines what happened here- if your T fell for you then caught himself, if your T was flexible with you then reconsidered- but for sure he suddenly pulled in the reins. Realistically, no T is going to be friends with a patient who has significant pathology - I don't know if you do or don't- but the ethics of that are pounded into them. The idea I guess is for your T to become replacable to you eventually, that the skills you develop in order to bond with him become transferable to someone else and the good T thus makes himself obsolete? In this case, he is just scaring you more abut relationships.

I am in such a similar place, that I almost wrote a similar post this morning. My T will say things like "I am right by your side", "be with me here", "stay the course with me". These things feel so intimate in the context of taboo topics from the past, and they feel a little. . . illicit since bth of us have SO's. I know they are pure, and I don't have any physical attraction to my T. On the other hand, with that level of intimacy, the times he cancels 5 times in 6 weeks seems casual & cavalier- like oh my real life calls so FU. I have4nt bounced back from this- it seems like I had romanticized therapy like Good Will Hunting, and now I just feel diminished and sad and cynical.

[Middlemarcher]

Sometimes I wonder if this sort of feeling isn’t rooted in a more fundamental existential pain. We are all essentially completely replaceable. If I ceased to exist tomorrow, someone else will replace me in my job; my partner will find another partner; someone else will take in my pets; my possessions will go somewhere else; my loved ones will be sad, but they’ll go on with their lives, and eventually most of them won’t even be sad anymore; etc. It makes sense that we want to feel indispensable to someone, but it isn’t generally true, not in therapy and not in life.

I don’t think that one’s T saying that you can’t be friends after therapy means that s/he doesn’t care about you. While some people can transition to being friends with an ex-T, I suspect that they’re in the minority, and that the safest, healthiest route for both client and T is for the relationship to end with the therapy. I feel sure that my T would tell me that we can’t be friends afterward, and I know that if I quit, I’d be replaced with another client. But I know that she does care about me.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Middlemarcher

Sometimes I wonder if this sort of feeling isn’t rooted in a more fundamental existential .

I think very much so. I'm realizing the more I think of things the more mentally screwed up I am I've never dealt with my pain. Just buried it and went on. It's becoming very overwhelming now as pain and emotions are flooding to the surface. It sucks

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

So sorry about this harsh situation within a milieu that once made you feel safe and hopeful. It's hard to read through the lines what happened here- if your T fell for you then caught himself, if your T was flexible with you then reconsidered- but for sure he suddenly pulled in the reins. Realistically, no T is going to be friends with a patient who has significant pathology - I don't know if you do or don't- but the ethics of that are pounded into them. The idea I guess is for your T to become replacable to you eventually, that the skills you develop in order to bond with him become transferable to someone else and the good T thus makes himself obsolete? In this case, he is just scaring you more abut relationships.

Very much. I already keep people distant. Aside from my dogs I've never allowed anyone to get this close. It's scary and confusing

Elio, good posting.

[atisketatasket]

I don’t actually think every relationship is replaceable. My deceased father isn’t replaceable, for instance, and no other relationship I have will ever be quite like that.

I think it’s fair to say that the same is true of therapists and clients. Yes, generically it all seems like the same relationship, like if my mother had remarried a stepfather would have replaced my father. But both parties are unique and the way they interact is also unique. You can get another therapist, and it won’t be the same. He can get another client and it won’t be the same.

I think the key is to enjoy the present in the relationship, and not be so intent on the future—because that will be based on what happens in the present.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I don’t actually think every relationship is replaceable. My deceased father isn’t replaceable, for instance, and no other relationship I have will ever be quite like that.

I think it’s fair to say that the same is true of therapists and clients. Yes, generically it all seems like the same relationship, like if my mother had remarried a stepfather would have replaced my father. But both parties are unique and the way they interact is also unique. You can get another therapist, and it won’t be the same. He can get another client and it won’t be the same.

I think the key is to enjoy the present in the relationship, and not be so intent on the future—because that will be based on what happens in the present.

So much truth In this. Thanks

[BudFox]

I see no reason to feel worthless or bad in this situation. The therapist ought to be the one feeling like crap.

Seems to me clients typically bring genuine emotion to the process, whereas therapists are, as you say, faking it, selling simulated emotions, hustling people in distress, treating them like a commodity, and sending ambiguous messages that cause lots of confusion. Anyone with a conscience would feel dirty doing such things and I have no doubt many therapists do.

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Hi all

As some of you know, I had a rupture last week with my T for opening up about hopes of friendship after therapy and his reaction and excuses left me feeling so worthless and confused...after the way he had been with me for many many months.

We are ok I guess, he isn't mad or weirded out, we talked it out the best it can be and he is still trying his hardest to keep things feeling the same.... only thing is, they don't.

For so long, he truly made me feel like I matter, like he cared... I was happy more than I have been in a long time and I felt good about myself. I had some hope for my future.

Then all this came crashing down and all I could see was him being fake. Him "pretending" with me all this time for his job. I can no longer look at him with excitement and happy feelings but rather sad and confused feelings. I trust him mostly but not the same level I once did.

The reality of it all has hit me and I really have no idea how to keep trying therapy when this is constantly on my mind but I do wanna try and I don't want anyone new

The thing is, know I know I'm just a paycheck, I'm just a date on his calendar. I AM replaceable. When I finish someday, someone new will take my place... I wont matter anymore, I will be forgotten. I can't deal with this feeling, it's making me sick and feeling so so worthless but it is reality. How does one try to deal with and accept this reality so they can move forward in treatment? (even if I did see someone new as people often suggest, I would still feel this way...because it is the crap reality of therapy)

If your feeling good cracks so much. Then it was fragile in the first place.
There are other T's that aren't as shallow as you seem to imagine yours is.