Survivors of Unethical Therapy

I wrote you a long reply to a previous message but it was lost in a paper shuffle, I guess. Here you have (or not) my second attempt.

Before I begin I should note that my therapists, from January 1985 through July 2011 were MD psychiatrists or MD psychiatric residents. I had a PhD psychologist clinician for a little over six years and now I’m back with an MD psychiatrist.

I agree with some of what you write in your opening paragraph. I think that all who’ve treated me have been pessimists — or realists — as no one has ever promised to save me from my disorders. The goals were always an increase in functionality, across symptomatic spectrums, various levels of maintenance, and finding ways to increase my quality of life. When I was sick but functioning I recognized that I was naturally interested and responsible for participating in meeting these goals. I don’t think that we’re alone in determining our behavior, though. I think that we’ve internal and external reference points (too many to name but the latter includes people) that inform our actions. And I think this true of everyone. When alone with my lover my behavior is going to differ from my behavior when alone with my mechanic. As idealistically individualistic as we’d like to think ourselves — that there is the ego/I that alone guides our behavior — our actions are extraordinarily the results of external references. I included internal references because I know that my behaviors are heavily influenced by my symptomatic mental disorders. I impulsively spend money foolishly. I can have that sentence tattooed on my forearms but I will do it again, time after time.

With mental disorders the question of responsibility always lurks. That’s one question that continues to puzzle me. It’s not something that I can address just now.

I’m not sure what you mean when you write that many therapists are codependent? I’m also not clear on what you mean when you write of neither the unethical therapist or the client taking responsibility for… what?

Of course therapists should practice ethical responsibility. I accept that a small percentage of therapists are unethical just as I accept that a larger percentage of the U.S. population are criminals. I think that your dismissal of the efficacy of psychotherapy needs some fact-based data to support or disprove your claim, though.

I’ve never had a shrink try to ensnare me into an imaginary world. I have had shrinks try to free me from the imaginary worlds of my delusions, however.

[A note about delusions: I’m cognizant of the ‘fact’ that I’m delusional. That recognition, though, doesn’t mean that I believe any less in my perception of reality. I believe that there exists a cabal trying — and succeeding — to silence me. I think that there is an effort being made to discard/abandon me for reasons that elude me. I believe that this effort has directly awakened dormant symptoms that negatively impact my well-being. I can’t say any more.]

I can’t find any cohesive matter in your second paragraph so I’ll not comment on it.

No, an ethical shrink doesn’t promise cures but can offer, I think, possibilities of healings (even if that only means hurting less) and very realistic goals of changes away from destructive behaviors.

You wouldn’t pay a patent attorney $1,200 per hour as if you were purchasing a commodity. I’m always a little surprised at those who are surprised that doctors who may have to finance twelve years of school actually charge money for their services. There seems to be an “if they really cared” sentiment that precludes payment. We generally don’t speak as if those in service industries are “selling” themselves but rather what they “charge” for their services. You write of selling in one sentence and services in the next and while I’ve no problem acknowledging that professionals sell services ‘selling’ could be misconstrued as synonymous with commodities rather than services. I don’t speak of my mechanic selling me labor to repair my car but rather speak of what she’s charging me for labor.

Why would you think that a therapist would be able to write an informed consent form? Or a real estate contract? Forms and contracts can avoid legal entanglements when drafted by attorneys. I completely agree “that many Ts would not even know what to put in such an informed consent” form. I would also posit that my thoracic surgeon wouldn’t “know what to put in” a writ of certiorari to be delivered to the SCOTUS.

I’m unclear as to how you are able to deduce that “many” therapists are ignorant about the realities and the limitations of their particular areas of expertise, i.e., psychotherapy? Do you know of polls or research to substantiate the claim? Or is it a gut feeling or intuition?

I have to ask why you would pay $200 for 50-minutes of mere conversation? You seem to find other clients gullible all the while you were doing the same. That seems very strange.

I doubt that my mechanic is primarily interested in business. She’s primarily interested in repairing cars and can repair ’57 Chevys and ’18 Jaguars. She is very concerned about the quality of service that she provides as her reputation for providing exceptional service has a direct impact on her income.

Obviously what is true of my mechanic is true of my therapist.

I have asked too many questions and I don’t expect answers to each. My primary concern is that you’ve provided portraits of ‘many’ therapists as stupid, lazy, unrealistic boogeymen based upon — I don’t know what? The climates that you create inspire others to go further and proclaim all doctorin’ nothing but nonsense since the patient is going to, after all, die in the end. And then all sciences are fair game. And I know that Shakespeare never wrote no plays or poems. I suppose that, at the end, we’re left with the least knowledgeable amongst us holding Jack’s magic beans.

I’m drawn to these threads because I’m a real-life product of psychiatric care. I don’t want anyone to be afraid of therapy because of salacious subject lines or posts that paint a skewed portrait of therapists and therapy. Conversely, I would want to engage anyone who came here proclaiming that therapy can cure all mental disorders and prevent boils from forming.

I’m so very, very tired.

Cry me a river. Let people talk about their experiences of surviving unethical therapy. I'm not in any way now afraid of therapy because people are sharing their hurt. I'm old enough to make up my own mind. So you're a real-life product of psychiatric care-cheers to you. I do not however need any saving from 'salacious subject lines or posts that paint a skewed portrait of therapists and therapy". How about I decide that for myself.

In the denial of expertise we frequently tell ourselves that everyone is equally gifted with knowledge and that the ‘experts’ are, somehow, ignorant of their fields.

Certainly survivors of unethical therapy have every right to ‘share their hurt,’ — but feeding into that “I’m old enough to make up my mind,” mold, and the I’ll “decide that for myself,” goes back to the “I’m smarter than the experts,” mold.

Yes, I’m a product of 33 years of psychiatric care. You may need no psychiatric therapy intervention but many come here with concerns about therapy and might be turned away by the harmful and unethical sobriquets.

I don’t believe that most — or many — psychotherapists are unethical or harmful. That’s really the main message that I want to get across.

I respect this very much. I believe you understand the point of this thread LittleAfrica.

Amicus_curiae, I do recall you saying you had a negative experience in therapy. Mind sharing it? That is the topic of this thread afterall. Perhaps you can take a moment to take part in advocacy and spreading awareness rather than challenging our form of advocacy. It is actually humorous to me how far you are going out of your way to defend the healthcare profession when I can show you LONG lists of examples why healthcare needs a swift kick in the butt.

I go to a complex ptsd group and nearly everyone in the group has had a negative experience. It is amazing. I think if this topic reached a large scale level of advocacy, we would get a clearer picture how common it is.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

I wonder if the experiences and adaptations (including numbing out) that we made don't kind of "set us up" for negative experiences, AGAIN, in therapy. But for therapists to put that back on us as "our problem", which it is, just like it's a paraplegic's problem that they can't walk -- well, it's "our problem" which we came to therapist's to help with, not for them to feel superior and to put us down, socially.

I'm drunk so I'll be very basic and refrain from being obnoxious. You're kinda interesting. I like some of what you say/ask yet also see so much "wrong". I think maybe it's more how you come across/tone than the content itself which can seem to come across as very invalidating
Eg. "Share their hurt" like why hyphenate that as if it's something questionable. These are people's very real stories. A little empathy would be nice. I have no energy to further delve into it all that as it was just an example that came to mind. And perharps it's perceptions anyway.

If we look at "popular theory"and without going into my stuff I do in fact "need" psychiatric and therapeutic intervention. Hence, I am currently in therapy and also see a psychiatrist. Why you immediately assume otherwise is beyond me.

There are tons of threads on here that reflect therapists behaving unethically and harmfully. It is not only threads such as these.

Do you have data backing up your belief since you insist on it when others voice their beliefs. Rhetorical question not really interested in an answer.

As for your belief/main message you wish to get across let's just agree to disagree.

Be well

Others here have also shown this caring and deep concern. Some of them perhaps therapists with concerns of the trend of declining demand for therapy over the years.

But there are millions of webpages, many from the medical community, promoting psychotherapy as an effective treatment. On the other hand, even putting harm aside, others waste a good deal of money on treatments that really don't work. What I find disturbing is the concept of "the match", where clients may spend years on mediocre, poor, and/or harmful therapy until they find "the right match". To me, that is bs that the industry can change if they chose to (ie using science to create algorithms or training or proper use of assessments). Instead, we often see here that therapists take on any client and when they no longer want to deal with the person, can wash their hands of any responsibility for the treatment outcome and hide behind "your issues are beyond my skill level". The biggest ******** I ever heard. So easy to simply quit a project or task when it gets difficult.

So it seems to me some skepticism, questioning and balance is positive and healthy. After all, in the US at least, healthcare is a product of capitalism. Those in the industry protect and promote themselves as is done in all industry.

No one is really promoting and protecting the clients, so let the people here do it. They are smart and courageous and I see a great deal of healthy and critical thinking.

And that is exactly what happened to me. Incompetent, corrupt and unethical therapists who literally repeated my trauma. They'll say it's our problem and is pathological, they'll intentionally repeat the trauma (knowing that repeat offenses by multiple sources makes us look like the common denominator) then sinply say it is a pattern of behavior on our part. It's as though being vulnerable attracts abuse; and it does according to a lot of trauma research. There's the repitition compulsion, there's the self fullfilling prophecy, then there's just the plain old fact that human nature tends to prey on the weak and vulnerable; irregardless if they are therapists or not. Just because they swore an oath to be unethical does not mean they will be.

Makes me sick to my stomach when we meet against ignorance and invalidation for something that is VERY OBVIOUSLY GOING ON. The healthcare system has been getting away with no accountability for far too long and now that they have a long list of victims and survivors saying the same thing, they've set the precedent for social movements and change in policy and legislation.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Frankly, I'm baffled that more people don't see how parasitic most of mainstream healthcare is. It's a lot of hideous profiteering on the backs of the sick and frail, made possible by manipulative pseudoscience and cradle-to-grave social engineering.

The orthodoxies are rarely questioned, whether it's MDs arrogantly and madly pumping people full of poisonous franken-pills that subvert basic functioning of the human body, or therapists selling expensive laboratory relationships as an essential part of life.

I think it's in the early stages of collapse, and hope it falls soon. Failed paradigms need to go, and be replaced by approaches that are sane and more in-tune with ancestral living.

Just my opinion.

I too wish it'd collapse soon, but I don't believe it will. Too many powerful interests are involved in this system to keep it going. And, the average consumer is more than happy to stay brainwashed into believing that the system is working well. I don't see a significant enough number of people outraged by what the system is doing to them and the entire population to shake the status quo. Just about 20% of pissed off consumers would be enough to bring the system to a collapse and to start building a new one provided that they will organize a robust campaign. But I don't see any such attempts. People are more than happy to stay asleep, and most of those who are "woke" don't go further than ranting and venting about it to friends or on social media or on forums like this one. So, we'll see little change in our life time.

I actually don't either, not anytime soon. Was a bit of wishful thinking. But the internet has changed everything and probably has at least started the process.

I don't know that I am "awake" to all of it, but I'm as clueless to know what to do about this as I have been blind to so much social stuff. I don't know how to organize a campaign, or how to present things so that other people will be interested. Any ideas? Or anything to help generate a "critical mass"?

I had a really good therapist, I thought he was nearly perfect. But something happened to cause him to terminate me almost out of nowhere, without any clear explanation. Technically speaking, I quit, because he was stonewalling me and he was so cold and removed that it was traumatic to see him and I had no choice. I don't think he violated any guidelines. He was crafty-- he made me leave.

But what he did to me on a personal level is horrible. I came to see him for low self-esteem, self-criticism, shame, a history of being rejected socially when I was of school age. My worries that he did not like me and did not want me as a client came up several times in the course of therapy. I always worried about not being a "good client." I worried he was just pretending to like having me as a client, I worried about being terminated.

To be rejected by him -- and in a really, devastatingly cold way -- it has undone most of the benefit I had gotten from therapy, if not all of it. It makes it all seem like lies and a bag of tricks. To have someone who knows everything about you and is familiar with the "child parts" of you decide they can't stand you -- it is a rejection on a level that is almost impossible in normal relationships. And now I am so deeply ashamed and so terrified of running into him that I am having difficulty leaving my house. The nearest grocery store is not far from him, and I was able to buy groceries this week only by texting constantly with a friend to help me manage my anxiety. On a human level he has hurt me worse than anyone has hurt me since high school. I am exhausting all my social supports. I would go to a therapist but I don't think I can ever, ever do that again for the rest of my life.

But technically he did nothing wrong.

I can't say he was professionally unethical, and in fact I think this disaster in my life was caused because he actually thought he was being ethical. But their ethics are nothing but a bunch of CYA ivory tower philosophizing. Just as medical students' empathy scores fall during their schooling, I think therapists lose touch with being decent human beings. Two weeks before he destroyed me like this, my T actually cited first do no harm. The irony makes me feel like my head will explode. First do no harm? Nobody has hurt me like this in decades.

Man, that hurts. My story reads somewhat like this. Like getting stonewalled out so I had to quit and her thinking she was being ethical but those ethics doing absolutely nothing for me except giving her an excuse to treat me like I don't exist. Really broke me for a long while. anybody who had been through this would not wish it on their worst enemy. It's sad that some therapists can just do this with no self-awareness as to how much they are hurting someone. And no consequences.

You stated this really well. I fear I am in the midst of this as well. My T has become distant, cold, frustrated, short, curt, and actually a bit mean recently. All since I admitted my attachment. She is pushing me so much, it's like she is trying to force me to terminate.

I'm really sorry. Attachment is normal and can often facilitate healing, I don't know why some of them get so squirrelly about it. I'm sorry she's having a negative reaction. Maybe you could ask her to consider this article that LabRat found, which was really good? To educate her a bit? Some T's like to learn from clients and some think they already know everything, but it might be worth a try. I very much hope that things smooth out for you and that your T's discomfort resolves in a positive way.

Yes. Exactly this. Exactly!

I'm so sorry you've been through this too.

I'll come back to this thread to share some ideas. My father just passed away.. Surreal..I need some time to process it.. Later..

No, I don’t mind sharing the specific, at all. And I think that these ‘stories’ might be more ‘humanized’ if actual stories were told. He was my third shrink. I was having a problem with controlling my sexual behavior, so we, naturally talked about that. He invited me to a party at his home — never exactly saying that it was a sex party, but I had been to enough sex parties to know what I was getting into, even as he told me that there would be plenty of girls from the finest strip club in the city attending.



He did nothing to help solve my sexual proclivities — but I can only guess what was going through his mind at the time (I have one sure guess that I’ll not repeat here) — but I think that his biggest crime was not that he was harmful or unethical but that he, like the majority of his patients — mentally disordered. In the very short tales that I’ve read here, the shrink is Ill-informed, petty, wanting his or her way, etc., but never thought as mentally unstable.

I was not, during this period, unaware of what I was doing, either. I was a willing participant and I had come to care deeply for the girl involved.

I’m not probably not an advocate for harmful or unethical simply because of my willing participation. And I no longer think of my 3-4 months with him as part of my psychiatric treatment — my 10-year treatment with my following shrink was so much better that (even today!) I have forgotten my short time spent with that challenged psychiatrist.

In spite of this hiccup in my pysychotherapy, I have been unable to find a preponderance of datum to suggest that harmful or unethical therapy is the norm, or even representative of a proper minuscule percentage of available data. If I thought that 3-4 months of therapy negated the remainder of 33 years, and that the synopses of studies failed to produce much larger percentages of the efficacy of therapy than not, I would surely jump aboard your bandwagon.

Firstly: I don’t buy the theory of agreeing to disagree; it negates everything that I learned in the Cambridge Debate Union. Secondly: I agree with the Christian call to love my neighbors and, as we are neighbors, part of a digital community, I love you — all here — and I am guilty in not relaying that message, properly. Thirdly, I love your nickname: It could serve as my neighborhood nickname although me, as a white male could negate the nickname or this could be a 1930’s film and I could be Bwana. Or Tarzan.

So: I hope that you don’t drink too much! I’ve never been I big fan of alcohol — I used to buy a bottle of Jack Daniels to spice eggnog at Christmas but I’ve not since 2013.

I don’t wish to come off — even in tone — of being unsympathetic to others’ feelings. My hyphenation of phrases isn’t meant so set a tone at all! I play with hyphenation freezing, e.g., he-stripped-to-his-boxers, any and all phrases that I feel should be hyphened. You’ll find one of my shared-stories in a previous message (maybe). I am so sorry in thinking that everyone here are long-past the need for psychiatric care — thank you for the kick in the rear end. I think your opinions may offer more legitimacy than others. Do you feel that you can share a story — or maybe I’ve missed it?

Yes, there are many stories of unethical/harmful therapists here. But I think that we need to be careful in awarding the stories merit, so to speak: someone may feel greatly harmed because their therapist would not (or could not) loan them a quarter so that they might quench their thirst for a Pepsi, and others may feel that their therapist is unethical in their failure to buy roses for their patient’s birthday. I stay out of those convos because I realize that many people feel strongly about their emotional tie to their therapists (although I think that the idea of ‘transference’ has been long, long dead).

I don’t mean to come across as invalidating tales of harmful or unethical therapy at all. I only read the polling-study studies that show a very small percentage of patients report such therapy. I admit that I’m not a user of Google but am rather skilled at LexisNexis, etc., searches. I’m unable to supply links to proprietary networks, obviously, but (and I’m going with lowballing that ‘fit my case’) I’ve found that in over 500 studies 3-8% of those in psychotherapy, past or present, have found the practice harmful or unnecessary while still 75-80% have found the practice useful.

Let’s talk some more. About the titled subject. If I can ever (hope) to get on my mania roil, again, I’m thinking of writing a long article about the help that psychotherapy has rendered me. Short. 10,000 words or less.

I'm so sorry, Ididitmyway. Wishing you peace and solace in your grieving.

I have never seen any ethics guidelines that contained meaningful protections for clients beyond the obvious. They are official authorization for therapists to do what they please. Carrying out an emotionally abusive relationship is well within guidelines. Therapists are accountable to no one, unless they do something really awful.

I agree!

Unfortunately the demand for psychotherapy has only declined as the (often patient-prescribed) demand for psychotropic medications have increased and equitable insurance has decreased. GP’s are frequently playing the roles of psychopharmacologists in treating depressed or anxiety-ridden patients. There is a great deal of data to support this but I only need to look at my own situation: I had to go-out-of-my-way to find a shrink who would accept me as a patient whilst I continued to take my PCP-prescribed Xanax. My PCP doc has treated me for 10-years and knows that I’m about as much an addict as an alcoholic: That is to say, I am neither. But, after entering my 34th year taking Xanax, I am dependent on it; I can’t get through a day without it. I don’t buy it or sell it, I’ve never taken more or less than that prescribed, and it’s that bespoke suit which draws so many well-wished-compliments that I wear as often as possible. I wallow in anxiety. Xanax helps. But only my PCP will prescribe it, now. Hence I agree with the ‘experts’ — as psychotherapy declines, the chairs are full of GP’s playing at first-year-MD-psychiatric-residents are more than willing to offer psychotropic medications. I’ve had this discussion with my GP... he will not script me for one antidepressant or a host of antipsychotics. I could call him an unethical crackpot for failing to meet my needs or I can (and do) credit him for not playing psychiatrist.

The majority of the decline-data seems fixated upon those who have no insurance. Psychotherapy is a pay-service, like the services of a Nephrologist, and if you lack insurance you are likely to forgo these services and find the very cheapest form of ‘treatment’ — and you know to ask for Prozac because it has such a wide audience (I don’t know of a book titled, “The Thorazine Nation,” for example). Or Abilify (with their overwhelming television commercials). The secondary-decline may be the lack of new medications from Big Pharma. Tricyclic antidepressants may work better than SSDI’s and Lithium remains the gold standard for mood-stabling drugs. The best medications may be the oldest. Why, yes, heroin does help my jitters!

While psychotherapy has seen a decline, psychiatric care has been in decline, too. Are both bad things? I’m not sure how to answer that — I think that I can say, as a one-time and to-be-continued research psychologist — that my greatest hope for we mentally disordered folks lies with neuroscience. The study of the living brain has long-passed the ability to produce laughter whilst stimulating one portion of the brain (in general, BSR) but neuroscience was only legitimised in the late 19th century. Because of it’s dependence upon psychology-as-science, it may be a challenge to psychiatrists and psychologists.

[An admission: my last experience with a Neurologist was horrible — I had a stroke during the Christmas week of 2016 (2015? I can’t remember!) and I had a hospital-appointed neurologist who suggested — with no evidence — that the stroke was due to a nefarious clot that had made it too my brain: I was rewarded with some over-priced and so overly-rare treatment that residents were crowding my ICU room to ask me how I was feeling. I was supposed to keep still for 24-hours, promised that I would sleep the time away and receive the same meds as I took at home. I didn’t and I didn’t. I roared like a profane lion for 24-hours and, not receiving my painkillers or any psych meds, my roaring became sacrilegious and litigious at the same time. Like a mad cardinal-attorney. And bound-and-gagged like Bobby Seale. I didn’t sleep the necessary 24-hours, etc. I probably did have an ischemic stroke but probably didn’t have a giant clot coursing through my body. I later learned that my assigned neurologist was a ‘pain management’ specialist in real life. End of admission.]

Anyway, that would be my bet if the angels were to relieve me of my red shoes. Honestly, though? I’m not sure of how much Luddite-inspired anti-science this nation can take. Maybe we’re locked into circa 1930-1950’s drugs. Maybe quetiapine, lithium and Thorazine will always be my night-night meds. The Luddites worry me. More and more, the Luddites worry me. I feel as if there might be established a new Know-Nothing party. I can only hope that I don’t see 2020. If I hear, “now I don’t know but I feel like...” chimpanzees feed in pecan trees, my head might explode.

I don’t think that it’s millions of websites promoting cures that are to blame but (paradoxically) the pharma television commercials. Yes, many people have internet access but (and I’m not even going to use an L/N search) I would guess that more people have commercial television access. And that they see how those taking Abilify seem so much happier at the end of the commercial that they may speak to their GP about feeling ‘down’ or ‘blue.’ A GP will know about their insurance and might prescribe Abilify or suggest Dr. Parsons, the psychiatrist, down the road. The next move is largely dependent upon the judgment of the community standards which may stigmatise psychiatric care or not. It may be the safest thing to say that therapy COMBINED WITH psychotropic drugs is best for most people suffering from difficult mental disorders.

(I would define difficult mental disorders as those that disrupt mental or physical behaviours. Or both. My mental behavioural disruption might be seeing my long-deceased father mowing the grass. My physical behavioural disruption might be walking along him and speaking to him as he mows.)

Not so much an admission, just an long-stated fact: between 1999-2003, I lived in a state-run mental health hospital. I think that I can say that I “saw it all” during that confinement. From 2005 to late 2011, I lived in the psychiatric ward of a nursing home. I was an all-night coffee-consumer and part-time hospice assistant. So much the latter that I would be requested to “watch me tonight? I feel like I might die.” They did. Maybe two-three in one week? All sorts of hospice nurses — I felt like throttling the unmerciful.

Psychotherapy is probably promoted as being efficacious because it is more efficacious than not. I’m going to lowball the lowballiest (that’s not really a word) and say that psychotherapy is 70% efficacious and that the percentage jumps when combined with psychiatric treatment.

I admit that I know nothing about “the match.” First that I’ve heard of the concept. I’m sorry to say that it seems like a “best friend” therapist search rather than finding a paid-professional efficacious therapist. The concept of best-friend therapy is anathema to me. The one time that I crossed that line my name and photo ended up in the newspaper and I never allowed it to happen again. I’m always amazed to read of people here who expect friendship with therapists when they would never expect the same from their dentists. Yeah, my shrink knows me more intimately than my dentist but I don’t expect birthday gifts from either. Come to that, my ex-wife knows me more intimately than my current shrink and she’s not even sent me a card in 23-years! My thought would be that I might be sicker than I think if I need to go through years of shrinks (therapists) to “find the right match.” I’ve never heard of that as an industry practice?

I guess that the worst thing that I can confess is that I’ve never actually been dismissed by a shrink. I’ve been referred to another shrink, mind you, but only because the number of my queer diagnoses were more the particular expertise of one shrink rather than the current. I don’t find that strange at all. Upon moving back here, my first GP was a friend. After a few months he said, “Krypto, I don’t know how to treat you — you need to see...” with a list of specialists in his hand. Had he not sent me to those specialists I would not be alive today. Why should a shrink be different? I may get a referral to a shrink specialising in eating disorders, ADHD, child and adolescent psychiatry. If not at our first meeting, at our second she will surely suggest that Dr. Crapshot, who specialises in bipolar, anxiety, schizophrenia and borderline personality disorders might be a better “fit” (or “match”) for me.

Maybe you would trust an MD/shrink to operate more judiciously than a PhD/therapist? I have no experience with ‘Counselors’ who may have MA’s, etc. I have no patience with those who’ve less university terms than me. Call me a psycho-snob. My single PhD/therapist was damned good, though. I liked him when he rolled his quadriplegic body out in his super-wheelchair. I liked him more when I told him that I thought that CBT was crap. We had a great professional relationship. I still like him. I just don’t have a ride to go out to his office. I’m back to an MD/shrink. She looks like the smartest/hottest woman in the world: Ana Marie Cox. Ana Marie Cox looks like Kirsten Dunst. My social worker swears that my ex-wife and Kirsten Dunst are twins. Me? I feel transference coming on (JOKE!!!).

I cannot find data that supports a patient spending years and years with a shrink/therapist only to discover that they’ve not been beneficial. I’m not disputing your analogy, particularly if it’s part of your personal narrative, I simply cannot find data to support that this is even peripheral datum. I am not trying to dismiss the harm and unethical behaviour that you’ve endured but I can’t find any studies that support that these behaviours are pandemic in this country. Or even reaching the level of epidemic. Or epizootic. (Give me a break! I never get a chance to use the -zootic words!!!).

I’m with you 100% when you write “So it seems to me some skepticism, questioning and balance is positive and healthy. After all, in the US at least, healthcare is a product of capitalism.”

As an atheist, you can expect skepticism from me; questioning, too. Balance? I’m ‘iffy’ on balance. Fox News may be balanced but I think that I’m too corrupt to be balanced. I’m close to your belief — I just think that capitalism drives healthcare rather than reverse. Unlike unethical attorneys (my bailiwick) I don’t see doctors advertising their services on billboards or on the sides of buses. It isn’t illegal (SCOTUS) — but it’s thought unethical (AMA). Conversely, Hospitals (AHA) spend a fortune on advertising. I’m sure that you can guess the largest healthcare industry advertising (questionably-worthy) products: Big Pharma. Only in the U.S. of A. And New Zealand. Healthcare is largely free — or heavily subsidised — in New Zealand, though. See PHARMAC. Or don’t.

I’m aware that doctors and associations “advertise” on the internet. Usually within the ethical parameters of the FTC and various medical associations. I find that unfortunate as I paid big money to copyright “Dyno-Gyno.” Nonetheless...

I’m not (yet) convinced that the health industry — or even the medicinal-weed-farming industry — doesn’t have the health of it’s patients at the core of the industry. “Bad doctors” usually don’t get referrals and, sans advertising and referrals, doctors don’t make money. Specialists, which include doctors of psychiatry and of psychology, have found it more lucrative to form associations than to set up single-shingle shops. I’ve found that practice sound as no association wants a ‘bad’ associate giving all the hurls because of one bad egg. There will always be — there cannot help but be — not just exceptions to the rule but even HUGE exceptions.

I think that this website can be a great place to have ones’ say but I’m not sure that even a couple of hundreds of threads constitute a movement to protect others from harmful or unethical psychiatric behaviours. NAMI, however, is an exceptional case of “grassroots done right,” and serves so very many mentally disordered folks that they would be the first line (to call — I couldn’t stop it) for reporting harmful or unethical treatment.

I feel the need to repeat this several times in these long messages: I do not doubt, I would never doubt, it’s not within me to doubt, that you and others have been harmed by the unethical treatment of therapists (MD, PhD, MA, BA, AA, certified, whatever). I’ve simply not been able to find data that supports that this treatment is in any way common. My experience, save for one short episode that I believe that I could have avoided, has been that all of my therapists have had >me< at the centre of my therapy and that all have acted professionally in treating me.

That’s it. Sorry for mistakes - I wrote this too quickly and let the spellcheck automatically correct misspellings.

Peace.

I found that as well. Screaming, bullying, contempt, trying to retain me as a client when the relationship clearly was antagonistic was perfectly fine according to the grievance board who heard my case.

Then when I posted an Amazon review complaining that an narrative ethics book was contemptuous of clients, it caused a little backlash uproar. Instead of provoking the slightest bit of thinking, the therapists all went to their battle stations. And this was the audience for an "ethics" book.