Home Menu

Menu


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #176  
Old May 06, 2018, 05:12 PM
Anonymous52332
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
I find this blog to be interesting for several different reasons... Reasons which I will not comment about just yet...

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...pers-who-hurt/

Read this. I want to know what people think.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz
I've actually read the novel she's referring to...it's terribly written and totally unbelievable. I found the blog post to be terribly written and totally unbelievable as well.
Thanks for this!
HD7970GHZ

advertisement
  #177  
Old May 06, 2018, 06:22 PM
HD7970GHZ's Avatar
HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByStarlight View Post
I've actually read the novel she's referring to...it's terribly written and totally unbelievable. I found the blog post to be terribly written and totally unbelievable as well.
Hahaha awesome!
__________________
"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
  #178  
Old May 06, 2018, 06:30 PM
HD7970GHZ's Avatar
HD7970GHZ HD7970GHZ is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
Same tired argument... if people expose the dark side of therapy, it might discourage people from "getting the help they need". Yawn. It's also a paternalistic attitude... don't scare the impressionable child-like clients.

The occasional negative fictional portrayal is completely overshadowed by the reams of propaganda the biz churns out about therapy's unassailable righteousness and purity. Seems rather paranoid, worrying about every little criticism.

Plus who really knows how common overtly destructive therapy is.
I agree with you 100% Budfox.

I am baffled that people actually form this kind of logic and try to spin a negative on sharing our negative experiences in therapy. It is SO BIASED! How on earth can we trust professionals if this is actually what a professional thinks?! It is crazy making; it inadvertently asserts that sharing negative opinions is wrong because it could ruin the possibility of people reaching out for help and having a positive experience. How sad!!! I would LOVE to see how many "professionals" take this fallicious stance. I would hope that "professionals" would see the VITAL IMPORTANCE IN SHARING NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES SO THAT THEIR PROFESSION IMPROVES.

Anyways, I just cannot let this nonsense get to me; at this point it is laughable how illogical and fallicious this stuff is. I look back at the Catholic Church Scandals and see that the Church covered up the abuse because they were worried people would stop trusting the entire Clergy... This sort of behavior is what led to far more abuse and it is a prime example why it continues to happen in the therapeutic world. So so so so sad. How can "professionals" not recognize this? Seems they're okay knowing about these abuses and choosing to do NOTHING about it.

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything."
― Albert Einstein


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
— Edmund Burke

Thanks,
HD7970ghz
__________________
"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
Thanks for this!
here today, missbella
  #179  
Old May 07, 2018, 07:34 AM
here today here today is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ View Post
. . .

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything."
― Albert Einstein


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
— Edmund Burke

. . .
Thanks for bringing the "e. . ." word into this discussion.

I've spent a long time looking for what I felt was "e. . ." in myself. It's a scary word, hard to define sometimes.

The problem is that the "e. . ." we're talking about here is institutionalized, in the theories and the practices, the attitudes of therapists about their profession (and themselves) and their"relationships" with clients. I don't want to use the "e. . ." word about every therapist personally or even most of them. It's the institution that is evil to me, and which permits and even promotes practices which have an evil effect. The therapists I've experienced, who have been "e. . ." to me, were probably only dimly aware of it, if at all.

Some might say that cancer is evil. When I was a kid, they had very little treatment, a diagnosis of cancer was looked on as a death sentence, and people often weren't even told. Doctors told family members but not the patient. Why make the end of their life even worse worrying about something they could do nothing about?

According to the culture of the time, that approach seemed "kind". Increasingly, though, patients didn't like it, and when people heard that's what had been done to some in their community, they told their family members that's not what they wanted for themselves.

And the science of biology and medicine has marched on and now we do have better treatment possibilities for cancer, though of course they don't always work and there are side effects of the treatments, so that I think there, too, the patients need to be given more respect, as well as more knowledge, to help them deal with the difficult challenges and make their own decisions.

Compassion, not caretaking. "Taking over", or domineering, may feel good to the therapist/doctor but may not be good for the client/patient. And when someone is hurting or vulnerable already, they may grasp at straws, as I have done, too.

It's a taking advantage of the client/patient for the benefit of the therapist's "feel good" or ego, and that's e. . . Even if they don't fully understand it -- but they aren't listening to us about it, either.
Thanks for this!
HD7970GHZ, koru_kiwi, missbella
  #180  
Old May 09, 2018, 12:05 AM
Ididitmyway's Avatar
Ididitmyway Ididitmyway is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
I am back to the thread just to share a brief thought with those who are interested in changing the mental health system.

But first I'd like to thank everyone who offered kind words and gestures in regards to my father's recent passing. I really appreciate it.

In regards to the system change, I don't want to discuss all possible venues that can and need to pursued and all possible actions that need to be taken. There is just too much of it for me to lay out at the moment.

The only thing I want to say is that any positive change can be made possible only when the mental energy is directed towards working on solutions, not towards criticizing problems endlessly. It is one thing to point out systemic flaws that need attention and then immediately to switch focus to working on solutions. It is the other thing to get stuck in endless rants about how horrible things are. The former is productive, the latter is counter-productive as it changes nothing. When the mind is focused on thinking about problems and discussing problems most of the time, there is no energy left for the work that needs to be done to resolve those problems. There is also no energy left for one's healing.

That's my main "thought of the day". I don't think anything can be done unless those who want to do something shift their mind-set from problem-oriented to solution-oriented.
__________________
www.therapyconsumerguide.com

Bernie Sanders/Tulsi Gabbard 2020

Last edited by Ididitmyway; May 09, 2018 at 01:54 AM.
Hugs from:
AllHeart, koru_kiwi
Thanks for this!
AllHeart, amicus_curiae, koru_kiwi, mostlylurking, SalingerEsme
  #181  
Old May 09, 2018, 05:20 AM
here today here today is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
I am back to the thread just to share a brief thought with those who are interested in changing the mental health system.

But first I'd like to thank everyone who offered kind words and gestures in regards to my father's recent passing. I really appreciate it.

In regards to the system change, I don't want to discuss all possible venues that can and need to pursued and all possible actions that need to be taken. There is just too much of it for me to lay out at the moment.

The only thing I want to say is that any positive change can be made possible only when the mental energy is directed towards working on solutions, not towards criticizing problems endlessly. It is one thing to point out systemic flaws that need attention and then immediately to switch focus to working on solutions. It is the other thing to get stuck in endless rants about how horrible things are. The former is productive, the latter is counter-productive as it changes nothing. When the mind is focused on thinking about problems and discussing problems most of the time, there is no energy left for the work that needs to be done to resolve those problems. There is also no energy left for one's healing.

That's my main "thought of the day". I don't think anything can be done unless those who want to do something shift their mind-set from problem-oriented to solution-oriented.
Unfortunately, I disagree. I have had a solution-focused outlook most of my life -- how to solve problems in my family, how to solve problems in myself. I was a problem analyst and solver by profession (software developer).

But what I was doing or was trying to do with the people-problems and even therapy problems I saw was to try to solve simple problems that I could easily see, and did not, have not understood the systemic problems in all their complexity.

I have found the "endless rants" here to be useful and helpful in uncovering deeper levels of the problem -- as I pointed out in my post above.

It's scary, for me, to recognize something I can't or couldn't escape from as "evil". But important to do so if I am to attack or attempt to overcome it. "Attack" energy doesn't have to mean criticize. But until I know for sure what problem it is that I need to try to solve, criticizing seems to me to be a useful part of the "analysis".
Thanks for this!
BudFox, missbella, Mopey, mostlylurking
  #182  
Old May 09, 2018, 05:47 AM
Anonymous50987
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
Unfortunately, I disagree. I have had a solution-focused outlook most of my life -- how to solve problems in my family, how to solve problems in myself. I was a problem analyst and solver by profession (software developer).

But what I was doing or was trying to do with the people-problems and even therapy problems I saw was to try to solve simple problems that I could easily see, and did not, have not understood the systemic problems in all their complexity.

I have found the "endless rants" here to be useful and helpful in uncovering deeper levels of the problem -- as I pointed out in my post above.

It's scary, for me, to recognize something I can't or couldn't escape from as "evil". But important to do so if I am to attack or attempt to overcome it. "Attack" energy doesn't have to mean criticize. But until I know for sure what problem it is that I need to try to solve, criticizing seems to me to be a useful part of the "analysis".
It is not something you can discover alone. It has to be done with many people involved. Because if we are to make a change, then it has to be made together.
The idea is as I’ve stated many times, is that mental health is allowed to be abused without taking care of the abusers. Putting the focus on the abused turns the abuse into an even more one-sided situation where there is too much focus on the abused and NO focus AT ALL on the abusers
Thanks for this!
BudFox, here today, koru_kiwi
  #183  
Old May 09, 2018, 07:19 AM
missbella missbella is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
I tried to begin a discussion on Amazon around a practice ethics book which I felt utterly ridiculing of clients. The author and her supporters completely rejected my assertion. And apparently they failed to understand the simplest concept —that maybe an ethics discussion shouldn’t ridicule the population it purports to minister. When profession discusses harmful therapy, I see little interest in hearing from consumers. That’s a large obstacle.
Thanks for this!
Daisy Dead Petals, here today
  #184  
Old May 09, 2018, 07:28 AM
Anonymous50987
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella View Post
I tried to begin a discussion on Amazon around a practice ethics book which I felt utterly ridiculing of clients. The author and her supporters completely rejected my assertion. And apparently they failed to understand the simplest concept —that maybe an ethics discussion shouldn’t ridicule the population it purports to minister. When profession discusses harmful therapy, I see little interest in hearing from consumers. That’s a large obstacle.
Tackling one part of the equation will not change its entirety
Thanks for this!
missbella
  #185  
Old May 09, 2018, 07:56 AM
here today here today is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian View Post
It is not something you can discover alone. It has to be done with many people involved. Because if we are to make a change, then it has to be made together.
The idea is as I’ve stated many times, is that mental health is allowed to be abused without taking care of the abusers. Putting the focus on the abused turns the abuse into an even more one-sided situation where there is too much focus on the abused and NO focus AT ALL on the abusers
I agree that it is not something you can discover alone. It needs lots of different points of view.

One of the difficulties that feels . . .not helpful. . .to me is the (over) use of the term "abuse", which is currently rampant in our society, promoted I think largely by the mental health profession, in regards to families, etc.

This is in contrast to the denial and not talking about problems in families in the 1950's when I grew up. Which wasn't good either.

But there are feeling connotations with the term "abuse". Like "evil". An implied moral or even possibly criminal accusation against the "abuser".

But from within themselves, the "evil doers" or "abusers" may not be fully aware of the effects of their actions or all of their own (unconscious) motivations, and any defense mechanisms from their own "abuse" that make it hard to see, or be fully conscious of, what is going on. That may make it very difficult for them to do differently very well. Plus, there are realistically very different points of view and responses to things by different individuals so that -- realistically -- how can others really know unless we all talk about stuff? Which may take a while, and be unpleasant and repetitive sometimes.

An "abuser" is a "bad guy". The abused is the victim. But just as it doesn't seem to me, either, that the overall problem can really be solved by focusing only on "healing" for the person with the victim-status, attaching a bad-guy label on the "abuser" won't solve it either.

How to identify and address the "system" problem? It would be great if some of this discussion could go beyond the limits of this forum. But, even if it doesn't, I think the discussion helps me get a better understanding.
  #186  
Old May 09, 2018, 07:57 AM
here today here today is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian View Post
Tackling one part of the equation will not change its entirety
No, but it may be a start. And the reported results of trying it may help provide more information about the scope of the problem.
Thanks for this!
koru_kiwi
  #187  
Old May 09, 2018, 08:58 AM
Anonymous50987
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
No, but it may be a start. And the reported results of trying it may help provide more information about the scope of the problem.
Well it is better than nothing
Thanks for this!
here today, koru_kiwi
  #188  
Old May 10, 2018, 09:15 PM
amicus_curiae's Avatar
amicus_curiae amicus_curiae is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2018
Location: I wish they all could be California gurls...
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
I agree that it is not something you can discover alone. It needs lots of different points of view.

One of the difficulties that feels . . .not helpful. . .to me is the (over) use of the term "abuse", which is currently rampant in our society, promoted I think largely by the mental health profession, in regards to families, etc.

This is in contrast to the denial and not talking about problems in families in the 1950's when I grew up. Which wasn't good either.

But there are feeling connotations with the term "abuse". Like "evil". An implied moral or even possibly criminal accusation against the "abuser".

But from within themselves, the "evil doers" or "abusers" may not be fully aware of the effects of their actions or all of their own (unconscious) motivations, and any defense mechanisms from their own "abuse" that make it hard to see, or be fully conscious of, what is going on. That may make it very difficult for them to do differently very well. Plus, there are realistically very different points of view and responses to things by different individuals so that -- realistically -- how can others really know unless we all talk about stuff? Which may take a while, and be unpleasant and repetitive sometimes.

An "abuser" is a "bad guy". The abused is the victim. But just as it doesn't seem to me, either, that the overall problem can really be solved by focusing only on "healing" for the person with the victim-status, attaching a bad-guy label on the "abuser" won't solve it either.

How to identify and address the "system" problem? It would be great if some of this discussion could go beyond the limits of this forum. But, even if it doesn't, I think the discussion helps me get a better understanding.
I would trust that I can say that I’m on the up-and-up when I say that the legal system uses the term ‘abuse’ more that psychotherapy. And secondly, in most as in physical cases — spousal abuse, child abuse. We used to defer to the kinder phrase, ‘child molestation,’ which discretely meant some vague form of ‘sexual-touching-with-a-child’ (which is sick and I don’t want to think about) — oh — and ‘spousal abuse’ was simplified ‘wife beating.’ “Wife beating” was in the boroughs, of course, where the bus drivers dwelt.

Yes. Abuse. Largely a legal term (and lots-of-Latin-Phrases), it broadens in use and is a loose word used in tandem with others to describe physical-harm as well as any ‘other harm suffered.’ Surely ‘abuse’ can be used to describe the survivors of abusive psychotherapy? I’m not sure why you think ‘abuse’ to be promoted by the mental health system? Psychotherapy abuse?

Mmm. Families. I had so many. My birth family. Short-lived. Various families for a couple of years. Dad and me. Evil stepmother family. Free until I married. Wife, child, and me. Unstable, now, these 21 years. Son of none, bastards of young. I, too, grew up in the 1950’s. For a kid with only temporary families, my childhood was okay. My dad — nor anyone else — never said “we can’t afford that.” If my dad explained his reasoning well, I usually saw his point of view. When I criticised my dad about his lack of foresight for not purchasing an early CBS-COLUMBIA color television, I saw his point. Finally.

And, no, I don’t think that ‘abuse’ was most often used for ‘families.’ Even in the 1950’s ‘abuse’ was more legal than physical. We didn’t just leap from ‘wife-beating’ to ‘spousal abuse,’ it took effort. I would hate to think of all the effort gone for naught.

Maybe it’s because I’m old but I believe the word is broad enough to encompass enough shades of nefariousness-ness so that ‘evil’ should certainly not be in it, or of it.

But you can write “evil-doers” or you can write “abusers.” Doesn’t matter to me. But the evil-doing psychotherapists are unconscious of the evil that they do... and they use doing evil to others as a response to having evil done to them. It’s a snake eating it’s own tail — evil upon evil upon evil from the mid-1930’s-onward. Almost one century gone and evil becomes an unconscious trait, with unconscious evil being meted out in measure.

Yes. People usually do talk during psychotherapy. Not me! Not for over a year! I didn’t speak during that period... but I acknowledged yes and no, even started writing closing in on the end. But the evil-doers talked to me, so maybe they found redemption.

Yes. There are many points of view, so unique that one is never like another. Seldom like another. How can one (psychologist) hope to every know everything about another? I believe that they would agree that what’s impossible is impossible. I’m guessing that their abusive minds have flashes of reality.

It doesn’t matter what you call the abuser or the abused. I don’t follow your reasoning for wanting to change the words to fit a psycho-psychologist but you can have your diagnosis and I, mine.

I don’t know, but if this problem is systemic (an over-abused word) then it would blow a hole in the psychotherapy tire. As there’s no proof of a systemic hole, nor a bulge on the tire. No, it is impossible for the greatness if “some of this discussion could go beyond the limits of this forum.”

Just when I think that “I gots it,” I’m drawn under by this evil begetting evil conundrum that blows all but the abused stories. Do you fellows agree? Or are there other theories?
__________________
amicus_curiae

Contrarian, esq.
Hypergraphia

Someone must be right; it may as well be me.

I used to be smart but now I’m just stupid.
—Donnie Smith—

Last edited by CANDC; May 14, 2018 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Guidelines
  #189  
Old May 13, 2018, 06:22 AM
koru_kiwi's Avatar
koru_kiwi koru_kiwi is offline
Veteran Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2011
Location: the sunny side of the street
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post

The only thing I want to say is that any positive change can be made possible only when the mental energy is directed towards working on solutions, not towards criticizing problems endlessly. It is one thing to point out systemic flaws that need attention and then immediately to switch focus to working on solutions. It is the other thing to get stuck in endless rants about how horrible things are. The former is productive, the latter is counter-productive as it changes nothing. When the mind is focused on thinking about problems and discussing problems most of the time, there is no energy left for the work that needs to be done to resolve those problems. There is also no energy left for one's healing.

That's my main "thought of the day". I don't think anything can be done unless those who want to do something shift their mind-set from problem-oriented to solution-oriented.
i definitly agree with all that you're saying. personally, i believe i have done most of my own healing with plenty of my whinging and ranting with others about my own harmful therapy and have also offered a sympathetic ear and support to those in similar situations, especially to let them know they are not alone. i do feel that i, as a harmed client, am ready to move forward from that 'problem-oriented' mindset/process to actually start doing the 'solution-oriented' mindset/process, but for me, that is where my desired quest comes to a frustrating halt. i, and i assume those of us who have that same desire, have yet to figure out how or what is the most effective way to accomplish that goal...??? one thought that comes to my mind is how do we go about engaging a solution when those of us who have been harmed by therapy (and will openly discuss it) are literally in the minority and often are quite easily shunned or dismissed by both the professionals and clients who have had positive therapy experiences? what is the best way to get the community or society to listen to our concerns and even contemplate a change?? these are just things i ponder at times...

i guess the good thing about coming here to a forum like this is there is a possibility to get the word out, and share experiences to those willing to listen and perhaps help gather the 'masses', but unfortunately, our masses of 'openly' harmed clients is so minuscule. i just wish there was an easier way to really get this 'solution' rolling. honestly, i'm growing frustrated and disheartened of repeatedly hearing many of the same or similar stories of the harm caused in therapy to others over and over again.
Thanks for this!
AllHeart, here today, Ididitmyway
  #190  
Old May 13, 2018, 09:17 AM
here today here today is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,517
Something I think needs doing, somehow, is plowing through the stories to find common factors. Seems to me there are some. Feeling rejected in some way by the therapist is one that has already been identified by a psychologist. It definitely applies to me. But then what? The profession as a whole doesn't seem to be listening much, or is slow to change?

Excessive self-centeredness, or narcissistic traits, on the part of the therapist also seems to be a factor in some cases. The therapist may not be fully aware of it, and/or can't be made or allow him/herself to be aware of it. But other clients, like me, may have numbed out the ability to be aware of it, too, due to narcissistic traits in the family of origin.

Any other common factors, in the clients who have been harmed, the therapists who have harmed them, or the general methods, practices, theory, etc., in the profession that anybody would propose?

A major research project involving "narrative analysis" or something might be ideal. But to my knowledge that hasn't been done. Maybe it's in process somewhere? But until that kind of effort gains some traction, I think writing about our experiences here at least gets it "out there". For ourselves and, for whoever picks up on it, for others. It's something. Wish I knew what, and how, to do more.
Thanks for this!
koru_kiwi, missbella, mostlylurking
  #191  
Old May 14, 2018, 01:03 PM
BudFox BudFox is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 3,983
I don't see what there is to fix or reform. The system exists to feed itself and has evolved to its present state around that need, and around the limitations of a relationship-for-hire.

In another thread someone reported that their therapist refuses to bend on rules because following rules has made the therapist successful. If this makes the client suffer, that is a secondary concern.

If the client presses the therapist for better care, there is no incentive for the therapist to do anything differently, and it's easy to neutralize the problem. Plus, you can't make someone care, even if you pay them.

With modern plagues like depression, anxiety, mental fog exploding due to an increasingly toxic environment and healthcare system, there is a huge supply of misery to be tapped by professional helpers. If a client becomes a nuisance or liability, not hard to replace them with fresh blood.

Last edited by BudFox; May 14, 2018 at 04:55 PM.
Thanks for this!
Mopey
  #192  
Old May 15, 2018, 06:26 PM
amicus_curiae's Avatar
amicus_curiae amicus_curiae is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2018
Location: I wish they all could be California gurls...
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
Something I think needs doing, somehow, is plowing through the stories to find common factors. Seems to me there are some. Feeling rejected in some way by the therapist is one that has already been identified by a psychologist. It definitely applies to me. But then what? The profession as a whole doesn't seem to be listening much, or is slow to change?

Excessive self-centeredness, or narcissistic traits, on the part of the therapist also seems to be a factor in some cases. The therapist may not be fully aware of it, and/or can't be made or allow him/herself to be aware of it. But other clients, like me, may have numbed out the ability to be aware of it, too, due to narcissistic traits in the family of origin.

Any other common factors, in the clients who have been harmed, the therapists who have harmed them, or the general methods, practices, theory, etc., in the profession that anybody would propose?

A major research project involving "narrative analysis" or something might be ideal. But to my knowledge that hasn't been done. Maybe it's in process somewhere? But until that kind of effort gains some traction, I think writing about our experiences here at least gets it "out there". For ourselves and, for whoever picks up on it, for others. It's something. Wish I knew what, and how, to do more.
If you read the series of diagnostic criteria for your mental disorders in the DSM-5 and feel the wickedly cold and tingling flesh of realising that there are others like you, I would not be surprised. Read of yourself and learn how close you must be to the village post office lady.

I wrote a story today about a family of three, the parents musicians, the child gifted with golden chords. They did not take the paper. They did not watch the news. The gifted child knew nothing of current events. Almost removed from a civics class, a sociology class, and a history class. The child’ name was ‘Ada.’ In college, Ada learned to enjoy reading the news with her coffee and she kept a small television on her kitchen island, always tuned to CNN. She had first seen CNN in Mexico. Ada’s parents loved to travel. Ada often wondered if she had more exit and entry stamps on her passport than her sixth grade classmates. She did. Not a question that you ask aloud. Ada was pleased to have found a copy of an English paperback of Ray Bradbury stories in a posh shop in Mexico City.

If ‘feeling rejected’ is pandemic, I’m not seeing that reflected here, although I will admit to finding romantic feelings toward therapists more common here than elsewhere (which is to be expected). Endemic, maybe. But, yes, there are (far too few) stories and one has to walk between raindrops to feel anything more common than keeping the conversation going.

As said elsewhere — this isn’t a long-lived treatment. It will change as we grow to know more about the brain and mental disorders. The industry to falling and reforming but we don’t know what the next century will bring, quite yet. After a lifetime of being mentally disordered, I hope that next century is better.

I don’t think I’ve ever felt a shrink ‘narcissistic.’ Maybe a little too self-aware, though, spilling all the “I know more about psychiatry than you” drops o’erhead.” It may be part of soft education — we need to brag on ourselves until others begin. We’re not the wood, metal and glass collegiates. Can’t fix yer car, babe, best buy something new! Sorry I forgot to take the garbage out, ma.

No one would gamble against a narcissistic therapist — but I don’t suspect that there would be many. Therapists advertising is based upon ‘good reviews.’ Word of mouth. NOTE: I don’t recommend therapists found on “Craig’sList.”

I also doubt that a therapist would be unaware of her narcissism. They know this stuff. They’re probably better therapy clients than we are. I’m not certain. I’m going in circles around the presence of narcissism, really, so I’ll acquiesce on that one.

The most common mistake in shrink circles, these days, is in not assuring the client that treatment of psychiatric disorders is in an infancy that includes “as good as it gets” treatments.

This ain’t no party. This ain’t no disco. This ain’t no fooling around.

Far from needing “narrative analysis,” (just more anecdotes) you should use some of the many polling companies to gather scientific analytics of the analyst in practice. If the practice of the mean, evil, self-serving therapist is not so pervasive, maybe it’s the negative that’s more important?

I don’t know. I know that I breathe today and that I may draw my final breath tonight.
__________________
amicus_curiae

Contrarian, esq.
Hypergraphia

Someone must be right; it may as well be me.

I used to be smart but now I’m just stupid.
—Donnie Smith—
  #193  
Old May 16, 2018, 08:57 AM
here today here today is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
I don't see what there is to fix or reform. The system exists to feed itself and has evolved to its present state around that need, and around the limitations of a relationship-for-hire.

In another thread someone reported that their therapist refuses to bend on rules because following rules has made the therapist successful. If this makes the client suffer, that is a secondary concern.

If the client presses the therapist for better care, there is no incentive for the therapist to do anything differently, and it's easy to neutralize the problem. Plus, you can't make someone care, even if you pay them.

With modern plagues like depression, anxiety, mental fog exploding due to an increasingly toxic environment and healthcare system, there is a huge supply of misery to be tapped by professional helpers. If a client becomes a nuisance or liability, not hard to replace them with fresh blood.
There is, sadly, a lot of merit to this perspective, I think.

There does seem to be a huge supply of misery that is fostered by modern life, and which individuals -- and the society at large -- look to professional helpers to help with. Ordinary family members, neighbors, etc., just can't be bothered, don't know what too do, it's too much trouble in addition to their own struggles with modern (individualistic) life.

Alienation, depression, and anxiety, they seem to me to go hand-in-hand -- the real problem IMO is alienation. The "mental health" system that you described, Budfox, seems part-and-parcel of the alienation that is rampant in our current lifestyles.
Thanks for this!
Daisy Dead Petals, koru_kiwi
  #194  
Old May 16, 2018, 09:40 AM
Anonymous50987
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
I don't see what there is to fix or reform. The system exists to feed itself and has evolved to its present state around that need, and around the limitations of a relationship-for-hire.

In another thread someone reported that their therapist refuses to bend on rules because following rules has made the therapist successful. If this makes the client suffer, that is a secondary concern.

If the client presses the therapist for better care, there is no incentive for the therapist to do anything differently, and it's easy to neutralize the problem. Plus, you can't make someone care, even if you pay them.

With modern plagues like depression, anxiety, mental fog exploding due to an increasingly toxic environment and healthcare system, there is a huge supply of misery to be tapped by professional helpers. If a client becomes a nuisance or liability, not hard to replace them with fresh blood.
Then Google better stop advertising suicide hotlines and lie-feeding articles such as “depression/anxiet/getting help is a sign of strength, NOT weakness”
  #195  
Old May 16, 2018, 12:00 PM
Anonymous55498
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I agree with the idea that, especially in this era, alienation is a big factor that underlies a lot of anxiety and depression. I personally don't see it as a sole reason and not relevant to every case, but often and significantly enough. And here is exactly how therapy can make those cases where it is a factor worse by expecting one-sided openness and vulnerability within a very unnatural and limited structure. And how a T suddenly cutting such a client off or even just grossly misinterpreting can add to the alienation big time.
Thanks for this!
here today, koru_kiwi
  #196  
Old May 16, 2018, 12:57 PM
Ididitmyway's Avatar
Ididitmyway Ididitmyway is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by koru_kiwi View Post
i definitly agree with all that you're saying. personally, i believe i have done most of my own healing with plenty of my whinging and ranting with others about my own harmful therapy and have also offered a sympathetic ear and support to those in similar situations, especially to let them know they are not alone. i do feel that i, as a harmed client, am ready to move forward from that 'problem-oriented' mindset/process to actually start doing the 'solution-oriented' mindset/process, but for me, that is where my desired quest comes to a frustrating halt. i, and i assume those of us who have that same desire, have yet to figure out how or what is the most effective way to accomplish that goal...??? one thought that comes to my mind is how do we go about engaging a solution when those of us who have been harmed by therapy (and will openly discuss it) are literally in the minority and often are quite easily shunned or dismissed by both the professionals and clients who have had positive therapy experiences? what is the best way to get the community or society to listen to our concerns and even contemplate a change?? these are just things i ponder at times...
(
Right.

The individual "solution", which, in my world, is healing one's own wound, and the collective "solution", which, again, IMO, is changing the system are two separate topics to address, even though they might be interconnected.

For my own healing forums like this one or support groups have been very limited in terms of helping me to deal with the aftermath of the trauma that the therapy system inflicted on me. Aside from the initial validation, which WAS helpful, I found no value in debates about the usefulness of the entire system, in condemning the founders of the system, in analyzing therapists' personal insecurities and wounded egos that make them do what they do. All that was not where I needed to spend my energy on. I needed to spend my energy and time on finding how to alleviate my own personal suffering, how to release my pain and how to move on with my life. In other words, I was interested in healing myself, not in "saving" the world from the evil "industry" or "biz". Also, what I needed least of all is to get attacked by some survivors for not seeing the issue of harm in therapy the same way they were seeing it. That was the opposite of "support" those groups claimed they provided. Those groups/forums were not safe places for someone who was severely wounded to be in. They are also not the places I would refer other survivors to. I've been privately contacted by many people who were abused in therapy and most of them didn't even consider joining online support groups for the reasons I described above.

I, personally, don't believe that any systemic "solution" is possible until those who look for solutions deal with their own individual pain first. When one's heart is not at peace, any kind of activism would be motivated by the ego and nothing transformative or evolved would come out of their actions. Time and again I see all kinds of activists, social justice warriors, revolutionaries, organizers fighting for the causes they feel passionate about and I see that, instead of building a more evolved system, they create new problems and new dysfunctions because the real reason why they do what they do is to boost their self-image a.k.a ego, not really to deal with the problems. The solutions in the outer reality, or the more evolved state of outer reality, cannot be achieved unless the inner reality (one's mental state) is evolved. Einstein said it best: "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
__________________
www.therapyconsumerguide.com

Bernie Sanders/Tulsi Gabbard 2020
Thanks for this!
feileacan, koru_kiwi, Mopey
  #197  
Old May 16, 2018, 01:26 PM
Anonymous55498
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Ididitmyway, re your post above, may I ask when, you think, someone has healed past trauma sufficiently and is ready to do advocacy for a cause they consider important? What are the markers of that ready state?
Thanks for this!
koru_kiwi
  #198  
Old May 16, 2018, 01:30 PM
Anonymous50987
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The problem is wider than that.
It’s the confusion and loss of behavioral codes across the land
I think it’s meant to be somehow resorted through psychology and “universal human behaviors” such as emotions in order to have a more global mapping of how we are meant to be and how not. It’s like religion all over again in a way
Nothing wrong with it though. I am highly in favor of social codes to keep us well together
  #199  
Old May 16, 2018, 02:27 PM
Ididitmyway's Avatar
Ididitmyway Ididitmyway is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xynesthesia View Post
Ididitmyway, re your post above, may I ask when, you think, someone has healed past trauma sufficiently and is ready to do advocacy for a cause they consider important? What are the markers of that ready state?
There are no specific "markers". I know I have healed sufficiently when I am able to make an honest assessment at each given moment whether my intentions come from the ego or from the higher purpose. It means that before taking any action I have to contemplate on what my true intention is for taking it. If the intention is pure, I would feel completely at peace with what I do. If it's not pure, I would feel conflicted, anxious, may be agitate or even angry, in which case I'd know that the action should be postponed until I am able to better understand my intentions.
__________________
www.therapyconsumerguide.com

Bernie Sanders/Tulsi Gabbard 2020
Thanks for this!
feileacan, koru_kiwi
  #200  
Old May 18, 2018, 02:42 PM
BudFox BudFox is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 3,983
I feel no responsibility to offer solutions for what I perceive to be a largely exploitive and deceptive practice. I see no evidence that therapists are keen to learn from clients, or that they even hear the client's voice.

It’s a largely closed system that drives people in circles, narrows focus, and blocks the exits. Even people who’ve been burned many times will hear the standard refrain “find a new therapist asap”. I think it’s important to expose the inner workings. It’s a form of advocacy.

BTW, anger can be a healthy response. Righteous anger is different from ego-driven anger. Seems to me clients are encouraged to be docile and compliant. Maybe more anger and outrage would be a good thing.
Thanks for this!
koru_kiwi, missbella, Mopey
Reply
Views: 65234

attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:48 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.