[unaluna]

Topic suggested by content in another thread.

Do you debate with your therapist? Why or why not? If so, about what? If not, why not?

[Argonautomobile]

I try - he doesn't usually take the bait. I think because I have a tendency to go cognitive and he wants to talk about FEELINGS.

[here today]

I did not debate with my last therapist. Or rather my therapist did not debate with me. I tried to contrast our points of view. I asked for feedback from her about how I came across to her. She would/did not give any. I am wondering if "feedback" to her had an element of feeling value, and judgmentalism, that it doesn't necessarily for me.

I've also asked for feedback here on PC. And went to a couple of therapists asking for a "therapy" or something where they could give me feedback. They were mystified and clueless.

Feedback is different from criticism. It's saying "what you just said affects me like this" or something like that. Clear definition and "boundary" between one person and another. Doesn't imply, or minimizes the implication of, a value of either person.

I feel like I have needed that -- the bumping up against another human being -- in order to understand better who I am, as well as them. Sure, if the "bumping up" is too hard, it can hurt. So, for me, some experience with that in a "safe place" where I was not judged too harshly but nevertheless given feedback information, would have been a big help, I think.

[atisketatasket]

I think Piaf's style is debate. She doesn't seem into feelings.

Or possibly she's just decided that's the best way to work with me. Certainly I do better with therapists who can hold their own in a debate and not get defensive.

Other. I would have liked to have healthy debates if our opinions were in disagreement, but it never worked well. One of them always took it personally, became very defensive and passive aggressive. The other (much smarter) T mostly avoided diving into disagreements and had a quite masterful way of responding to critical feedback in neutral or validating ways, which often seemed very professional, but was also avoidant. So we mostly had many varied, pleasant conversations but never going anywhere really deep.

[stopdog]

I don’t know why it would not be a place for debate if that is what the client found useful. Therapists are not gods or even smarter or more knowledgable about anything than others. One need not take their word as gospel and one should be able to expect anyone they hire for a service to be able to explain it, justify it.

[missbella]

When my therapy became a weekly debate about my desire to terminate, I finally managed to. He did this whole authoritarian act thing that my no meant yes, my I don't like you meant I don't like dad, and that my "this is useless" meant I was on the very of a starburst breakthrough. I even said this had become a (colloquial word for urination) contest and he was indignant about that.

None of this helped me.

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

I try - he doesn't usually take the bait. I think because I have a tendency to go cognitive and he wants to talk about FEELINGS.

Ditto. . . ..

[Salmon77]

To me it really depends. Sometimes we disagree and talk about why and that can be fun. It's also good for me to work on asserting myself and stating my opinions. But "debate" implies trying to win an argument and I don't think there's any point in that, in the end it doesn't matter if we agree.

The dialogue of differing ideas it what makes discourse interesting. It would be pretty boring if I just sat there and nodded my head.Nope, we actually talk.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Salmon77

. . .But "debate" implies trying to win an argument and I don't think there's any point in that, in the end it doesn't matter if we agree.

That's not my understanding of "debate" and doesn't seem to me to be what this online definition says, either:

a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.
synonyms: discussion, discourse, parley, dialogue;

Seems to me like a motivation to "win" can be a part of that, but not necessarily the most important part. Sometimes it's hard to try to struggle through and put forward one's point of view. So, at least for me, I think some people may think that energy is directed toward "winning" when it's not.

Exploring different points of view, neither or either of which may be "right", is something I feel I need, or at least would like, in order to understand the world better.

[lucozader]

Me and T1 did a lot of 'debating'. It was almost all we did for a while. Sometimes I enjoyed it but I absolutely don't think it was therapeutically useful or beneficial and I don't think I should have paid for it.

[GeekyOne]

Debate... not for me. But discussion? Absolutely.

In my experience, when people are debating both sides have firm opinions on a matter and their goal is to convince the other party. There is typically little to no consideration of the opposing view. It's very much a "I'm right and you're wrong!" mentality that takes over.

In a discussion, the goal is not to change a person's opinion, but rather to fully understand it. Since you're not on edge about being told you're "wrong" you can be more open to hear alternative viewpoints.

For me, therapy is a place for discussion. The therapist should be listening and working to understand all of what I am saying, and thoroughly explaining their thoughts and process. My job as the client is to carefully consider what they're saying and how that fits with my experience and world view. Not blindly accept what they say because of their title, and not completely ignore them because their approach to life is different than mine. Just consider it, wholly and fully.

If someone insists their reality should be your reality and you protest-is that an argument or a debate?

I don't know. I don't react kindly to gaslighting and don't put up with anyone's crap anymore.

Originally Posted by Rayne_

If someone insists their reality should be your reality and you protest-is that an argument or a debate?


I don't know. I don't react kindly to gaslighting and don't put up with anyone's crap anymore.

This ^!!!!!
I often feel as though t rejects my reality and often tries to push her version of reality onto me.
We often debate certain topics- the most recent being whether evil exists in the world. If people are born evil or whether they adapt to their environment. T started going on about choices and how people chose to be evil and how I chose to see the evil rather than the beauty.
That really annoyed me and I said excuse me, I have a balanced view on life, it’s not just a black and white view. Some people who have done evil things can be really beautiful too, it’s not just that easy and who are we to judge who is evil. See t is a very catholic woman and sometimes, well a lot of the time we don’t see eye to eye on things, like the upcoming abortion referendum and repeal the 8th amendment.
I like a good debate but t often pushes her view and rejects mine.

[nottrustin]

We don't debate we both state our thoughts but she will almost always either we can agree to disagree or that whatever I decide she will support me

[here today]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

This ^!!!!!
I often feel as though t rejects my reality and often tries to push her version of reality onto me.
We often debate certain topics- the most recent being whether evil exists in the world. If people are born evil or whether they adapt to their environment. T started going on about choices and how people chose to be evil and how I chose to see the evil rather than the beauty.
That really annoyed me and I said excuse me, I have a balanced view on life, it’s not just a black and white view. Some people who have done evil things can be really beautiful too, it’s not just that easy and who are we to judge who is evil. See t is a very catholic woman and sometimes, well a lot of the time we don’t see eye to eye on things, like the upcoming abortion referendum and repeal the 8th amendment.
I like a good debate but t often pushes her view and rejects mine.

When I read this, in the context of this thread, it struck me that it's as if she doesn't realize you have you own different reality.

Since I have had problems with identity and sense of self, authentic ego, etc., I can relate to being caught up in my own reality, or sometimes taking on somebody else's. Of course consciously and intellectually it was not like that. But emotionally and interpersonally? It's very hard to describe -- several years ago, when I think an authentic ego was finally beginning to develop, I experienced something like a transparent bubble around me. I could "see" the shimmery "skin" of the bubble, and realized that other people have that, too, with their own reality inside. But before -- I didn't, even though of course I intellectually knew they were people with their own independent existence.

Given the trouble you have had with this T, I thought this observation might help confirm what you have suspected about her, that her ability to really care about you is compromised. She, like perhaps I did and maybe sometimes still do, does not, cannot understand that you really have a different reality in you.

I now work consciously on trying to keep awareness of the separateness of people in mind. But before I developed enough and had that "bubble" experience I would not have been able to, no matter how much I tried.

[InnerPeace111]

My T and I do not debate. I don’t like to debate.

There have been a couple of times where mine shut down debate before I even thought I was debating. For instance, she always asks if I have guns in my house (I say "no") but then last session, I then indicated that I felt like people without my history (suicidal thoughts) should be able to have them at home and she said, "we are not here to debate gun rights"--it was something I quickly threw in but wasn't planning on continuing to discuss.

In my case, she sometimes tries to guide our conversation because I can be all over the place (talk about too many topics at once, be confusing )--when she does this, I get a feeling that reminds me of my mom and husband. My former therapist's more easy going ways (she just let me meander) did not remind my of my mom/husband......

I think therapy is a place where the T should mostly listen but if the client is not realistic/living mostly in fantasy/etc then debating psychological things like coping strategies, reactions to other people, etc but would understand why a therapist might shut down some debates such as political debates; however, I think if a person is constantly thinking about politics (that is the only thing they talk about/read, etc) -- they could be using politics as a way to escape their lives and then the topic should be explored. I am not saying is wrong to be politically active only that in everything in life we must maintain a balance. A therapist should mostly listen, not debate but debates should not be totally off limits.....

[amicus_curiae]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Topic suggested by content in another thread.

Do you debate with your therapist? Why or why not? If so, about what? If not, why not?

I selected the “not debate, exactly” choice. I can become stealthily argumentative. Usually, with reason. Sometimes I am like my selected mood: *****y. That means unreasonable arguments. I’m called out and I let the topics die.

This new shrink doesn’t know me like my old therapist. But I have a feeling, based on two sessions, that she’ll not humour my crap. Sometimes my old therapist would take the proffered bait. My shrink is young and lovely but tough; very smart and tough. My old therapist wasn’t as assertive as he should have been and he recognized that as a fault. He danced around my crap rather than questioning certain hostile behaviors.

My answer is heavy on my impressions of my new shrink and lighter on the realities of getting by with my old therapist.

Sigh. I want a good argument to flush the bile from my blood.

I need to be vampirised by one smart cookie. Talent is difficult to find.

Real talent is so hard to find.

[precaryous]

No, we don’t debate. Have never liked debate.

[annielovesbacon]

I don't know if this qualifies as debate? But oftentimes T will bring something up and I will push back, usually just because I feel like being difficult, but she is very patient with me (which annoys me sometimes, lol). We also will tease each other back and forth or banter, but I don't really consider that debate either.

[bobcat21]

I hate to admit it we have had our debates it’s not something I’m not necessarily proud of but sometimes if I feel like I’m right about something she does get into a debate and soon she’s raising her voice at me and I’m not raising my voice I’m the calm one.