[Tbhimscared]

I saw my T today and when I answered a question she said something along the lines of "That's what I love about you" or "that's something I love about you". It was quick and cheerful comment and I know ethically T's aren't really supposed to love their clients but I keep thinking about it.
What do you think this means? I want my T to love me but I know that that can't happen and that feeling is part of my abandonment issues and problems with my family. A lot of the time the word "love" is thrown around in common phrases and I'm sure this is what she meant by it.

Can Ts ethically have those feelings for clients?

[fille_folle]

I don't really think it's a question of ethics. Feelings don't care about ethics.

[Merope]

I recommend this article:

https://emmacameron.com/therapy/do-t...their-clients/

[lucozader]

Yes, Ts can ethically have those kinds of feelings for their clients, and many do. The ethical grey area is in what they do with those feelings and how/whether they express them to their clients. I don't think your T did anything unethical, anyway. Having said that, it's clearly stirred up some strong feelings and confused thoughts for you so in that sense perhaps it's something she shouldn't have expressed so seemingly thoughtlessly.

The only way of knowing exactly what she meant is to ask her...

[Ididitmyway]

Feelings don't follow ethics :-) So, therapists, like all humans, feel whatever they feel. Ethics instruct them on how to deal with their feelings appropriately, not on whether to feel them or not.

If a therapist begins to feel love for a client, he cannot ethically act on it, and, in most cases, he is supposed to refer a client to a new therapist.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Feelings don't follow ethics :-) So, therapists, like all humans, feel whatever they feel. Ethics instruct them on how to deal with their feelings appropriately, not on whether to feel them or not.

If a therapist begins to feel love for a client, he cannot ethically act on it, and, in most cases, he is supposed to refer a client to a new therapist.

I think it depends on the type of love. If it's just platonic love, I don't think a T would have to refer a client out.

[zoiecat]

Before you went on with your interpretation of what she meant I took it just as a common saying that everybody says I love this I love pizza I love snow I don't think she really meant romantic love or even family type love just more of a saying kind of along the likes of that's what I like about you. I know you were hoping for it to me more but honestly if it were me I wouldn't read anything into it.

[JaneTennison1]

My T has said something similar. That's something I admire or like or maybe even love. I don't really remember what she said exactly. My point is that ethically.its probably ok for a t to say they love something about you

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I think it depends on the type of love. If it's just platonic love, I don't think a T would have to refer a client out.

If it prevents him from seeing the client objectively, yes he would. The same with any feeling whether it's love or anger or irritation or anything really. When a feeling crosses a certain level of intensity, the therapist is unable to fulfill his professional duty. But it feels good for many people to believe otherwise.

[SalingerEsme]

I wish my T held some kind of love for me, but I really think he doesn't. I don't think he dislikes me either- he is invested. In the beginning either there was a spark, or I misunderstood therapy, but my T is seems like someone who expects even more from himself than from others. If he did feel love, the patient would never know.. . In this case it was a fleeting attraction period, but the topic is too serious for that. I wish he loved me. Not romantically- more like that agape kind of thing or something sweeter. I am not sure I am capable of that lofty a love, or if anyone is or my T. He wants to do his job, then do a five day weekend every week. I have loved students and clients, in a homespun, loyal way. I don't think My T loves me like that either. Or at all.

[rainbow8]

I was very surprised when my T started signing her emails "love." She said it was "therapy love" but she also said that most Ts develop love for their clients. When she told me "I love you" in the session once, I had her repeat it because I didn't believe her! But, this kind of love is more like "caring deeply." There are many forms of love, and now I know T doesn't mean she loves me in the way love is depicted in our society. I think she loves all her clients the way she loves me, or at least the long-term ones. It's the way I love her too. It's why she liked calling ourselves heartmates.

[Jazz1971]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I think it depends on the type of love. If it's just platonic love, I don't think a T would have to refer a client out.

Therapists have feelings just like anyone else and they do need to keep them in check. Affection for a client is one thing, but something more than that, platonic or not, is something else. What your T said doesn't sound like this, in my opinion. I do think people use the word very loosely and sign emails "love" or say they "love" someone all the time when they don't mean it in the true sense but rather mean a strong "like". I think it's more professional if Ts to steer clear of this kind of language since it can cause confusion and suggests they aren't staying objective. Everyone's different however and if it otherwise doesn't impact therapy it shouldn't be an ethical problem.

[junkDNA]

my t once told me that I am a "loveable pain in the as$"

it sparked me to ask him if he does love me

he said that love is a difficult and loaded word especially given my history (true). he said I care about you very much

I don't find a therapist having any feelings to be unethical. what I do find unethical is how the therapist deals with these feelings in regards to the client and their therapy. I think every situation is different on the topic of a therapist expressing love to their client. I find what is appropriate and what isn't varies a lot given the context

Originally Posted by Tbhimscared

I saw my T today and when I answered a question she said something along the lines of "That's what I love about you" or "that's something I love about you". It was quick and cheerful comment and I know ethically T's aren't really supposed to love their clients but I keep thinking about it.
What do you think this means? I want my T to love me but I know that that can't happen and that feeling is part of my abandonment issues and problems with my family. A lot of the time the word "love" is thrown around in common phrases and I'm sure this is what she meant by it.

Can Ts ethically have those feelings for clients?

[junkDNA]

I agree and I think maintaining objectivity is one of the most important things in any therapeutic relationship. however I also think it's one of the hardest things

my former pdoc told me he had lost objectivity and could not be my pdoc anymore

once a mental health professional has lost their objectivity... I think treatment goes out the window

but I do think it's something that can be slightly out of control until it becomes apparent... and stepping back from that is probably very hard as well

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

If it prevents him from seeing the client objectively, yes he would. The same with any feeling whether it's love or anger or irritation or anything really. When a feeling crosses a certain level of intensity, the therapist is unable to fulfill his professional duty. But it feels good for many people to believe otherwise.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

I agree and I think maintaining objectivity is one of the most important things in any therapeutic relationship. however I also think it's one of the hardest things

my former pdoc told me he had lost objectivity and could not be my pdoc anymore

once a mental health professional has lost their objectivity... I think treatment goes out the window

but I do think it's something that can be slightly out of control until it becomes apparent... and stepping back from that is probably very hard as well

I agree. I would even say that complete objectively is impossible to achieve and maintain. As humans, we always look at everything through the lenses of our experiences and biases, at least to some extend. It also has been shown scientifically that our physical sense such as hearing, sight, smell, touch can detect a very limited range of sensations/information on which we base our view of the world, and so our view of the world and other people is very limited.

However, when one is in a professional role, he has to be aware of those limitations and make his best effort to detect how his feelings, beliefs, attitudes etc might affect his view of his clients and his work. When he is making this effort then he is fulfilling his responsibility to stay objective. Any "big" or fairly intense feeling like love, whether it's platonic or not, or anger or frustration will affect his ability to do that and so, when he detects it within himself, he is supposed to refer the client to another practitioner, as, at this point, he is unable to do his job.

I'd also say that if therapy was done differently, it it was more like a consultation where T answers specific questions/concerns and gives his professional opinion on the situation as opposed to engaging in a "therapeutic relationship" and endless analyses of that "relationship" and endless unfocused talks about how the client feels at the moment and what happened to her during the week, most of which goes nowhere, then no strong feelings would ever arise on both sides.

[Thalassophile]

I would think it almost impossible for a T to remain completely objective at all times particularly with longterm clients. I mean they are human and can't just switch 'off' feelings'. Feelings are a natural part of being human and inevitably they will develop one way or another. I would think the important skills is in being able to identify their feelings, understand where that feeling is coming from (e.g past or present etc), process it and make sure it doesn't impact the therapy in that whatever they say or do continues to be with the clients best interests in mind. I don't see that a T would have to refer a client just because they felt 'love' or even a dislike for them unless they felt that they weren't skilled enough to handle their feelings without them negatively impacting the therapy. To me, that would highlight they need to do more of their own work and/or more training. That's obviously just my opinion though.

[stopdog]

Those guys say all sorts of crazy things. The woman, in her final fit of cluelessness, told me she was fond of me and would remember me with affection.
WTF

[Myrto]

I don't think it's unethical for therapists to have "love" feelings for their clients but honestly it's obvious that this is mostly wishful thinking on the client's part.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Thalassophile

I would think it almost impossible for a T to remain completely objective at all times particularly with longterm clients. I mean they are human and can't just switch 'off' feelings'. Feelings are a natural part of being human and inevitably they will develop one way or another. I would think the important skills is in being able to identify their feelings, understand where that feeling is coming from (e.g past or present etc), process it and make sure it doesn't impact the therapy in that whatever they say or do continues to be with the clients best interests in mind. I don't see that a T would have to refer a client just because they felt 'love' or even a dislike for them unless they felt that they weren't skilled enough to handle their feelings without them negatively impacting the therapy. To me, that would highlight they need to do more of their own work and/or more training. That's obviously just my opinion though.

There are no skills that help therapists not allow their feelings to affect therapy negatively, if the feelings cross a certain threshold of intensity. There is no training that offers such skills. And no amount of personal therapy would ensure that the therapist's feeling for the client will not affect his work. The notion that therapists can somehow acquire and possess magical powers to separate their feelings from their work is wishful thinking that many clients and therapists alike share. It's a fantasy based on misinformation being perpetuated by the profession that is one of the major reasons many people get re-traumatized in therapy.

As a licensed therapist, who has received all the required training and who has always sought consultations and personal assistance with my clinical cases, I can attest that there IS NO training that teaches therapists "skills" to overcome their feelings to such extend that they wouldn't affect their work and there IS NOTHING a personal therapy can do in that regard either beyond simply tracing where the feeling is coming from, which might be helpful for the therapist's own self-awareness of his/her limitations and detecting the right time to refer the client out.

Feelings cannot be "overcome" and "put aside" for the sake of anyone else's well-being. At least, not when they are strong. They will always affect one's actions, and when one is a therapist, he'd damn better be fully aware of that reality so he would only work within his natural limitations and not give his clients a false hope that he could do more than what he is naturally capable of.

[Thalassophile]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

The notion that therapists can somehow acquire and possess magical powers to separate their feelings from their work is wishful thinking that many clients and therapists alike share. It's a fantasy based on misinformation being perpetuated by the profession that is one of the major reasons many people get re-traumatized in therapy.

As a licensed therapist, who has received all the required training and who has always sought consultations and personal assistance with my clinical cases, I can attest that there IS NO training that teaches therapists "skills" to overcome their feelings to such extend that they wouldn't affect their work and there IS NOTHING a personal therapy can do in that regard either beyond simply tracing where the feeling is coming from, which might be helpful for the therapist's own self-awareness of his/her limitations and detecting the right time to refer the client out.

Feelings cannot be "overcome" and "put aside" for the sake of anyone else's well-being. At least, not when they are strong. They will always affect one's actions, and when one is a therapist, he'd damn better be fully aware of that reality so he would only work within his natural limitations and not give his clients a false hope that he could do more than what he is naturally capable of.

I wasn't suggesting that feelings can be 'overcome' or put 'aside'. I was saying that they need to first at least be aware of them and as best possible try not to let their feelings impact the client negatively. Of course, that is not black and white and rather difficult thing to do and many therapists will fail at this. It's about always trying to see if their actions are in the best interest of the client or are they doing/saying something based on themselves. Of course, their judgement might be slightly clouded but a good T IMO will also be able to see that and it can be why consulting with other T's is also important.
We can't control our feelings but we can control what we choose to do WITH those feelings and to me, that is where the damage can lie. I don't think it's as simple as if a therapist has intensely strong feelings for a client they must refer them is all I was originally trying to say really. I mean if that was the case clients would be moving around a lot!

This may or may not be a good analogy but I have lots of feelings for the people I work with. Some of them are nice, well rounded, friendly, respectful and want help others can be rude, selfish and on the surface don't seem to care about wanting my help or anything much really (of course it goes far deeper than that). On the surface I find I enjoy working with those who want my help far more. If I was to let my feelings 'take over' completely without examining them and being aware of them I might find myself unfairly giving those more attention and putting more effort into helping them etc. Because I am aware of them though and am able to look at them at a deeper level I can choose how I deal with them so that it doesn't negatively impact those I work with.

This will effect different people in different ways.
Some it will terrify. Others, comfort them. Best to talk about how it made you feel.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

Before you went on with your interpretation of what she meant I took it just as a common saying that everybody says I love this I love pizza I love snow I don't think she really meant romantic love or even family type love just more of a saying kind of along the likes of that's what I like about you. I know you were hoping for it to me more but honestly if it were me I wouldn't read anything into it.

I have to agree with zoiecat.I feel it was just an expression,a common saying,which I have said myself to people in RL.It doesn't mean I really love them or have any feelings for them at all for that matter,it's just a saying.

It's so easy for us to read into things our T's say or do.I am guilty of that myself,questioning and analyzing everything,trying to place meaning on things.99% of the time I have been way off on my perceptions though and have caused myself so much turmoil.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Thalassophile

It's about always trying to see if their actions are in the best interest of the client or are they doing/saying something based on themselves. Of course, their judgement might be slightly clouded

Not "slightly", unfortunately..Strong feelings cloud judgment strongly.

Originally Posted by Thalassophile

but a good T IMO will also be able to see that and it can be why consulting with other T's is also important.

Not in my experience. The therapist who had a platonic "love" for me couldn't see **** precisely bur he firmly believed that he was acting in my best interests when he wasn't. He did consult with his colleagues but that didn't help him clear his judgment. The whole reason why strong feelings of any nature that T feels toward client are destructive is because they make him unaware of how his judgement is clouded. And those who are aware of that refer clients out when they truly think of their clients and their own best interests which are not mutually exclusive but, in fact, can only co-exist.

Originally Posted by Thalassophile

We can't control our feelings but we can control what we choose to do WITH those feelings

Not when your judgment is clouded, which is mostly the case in this situation.

Originally Posted by Thalassophile

I don't think it's as simple as if a therapist has intensely strong feelings for a client they must refer them is all I was originally trying to say really.

You don't have to refer them immediately once you realize you feel strongly about them. Sometimes, honest self-reflection and tracing the origin of the feeling will make the feeling dissipate or will lessen its intensity greatly.

Originally Posted by Thalassophile

I mean if that was the case clients would be moving around a lot!

I see nothing wrong with that. It's a much better outcome for me that to be stuck with a "love-sick" or angry therapist who doesn't know what he is doing but believes that he does. But the movement of client wouldn't be necessary if the whole system worked differently, which is an entirely separate discussion.

Originally Posted by Thalassophile

This may or may not be a good analogy but I have lots of feelings for the people I work with.

That's fine, Not all the feelings you have as a T are obstacles for doing a good work. If they are mildly negative (irritation, not anger) or not intensely positive (liking a client vs "loving" them) they could be constructive. They could give you ques about what the client is feeling and could become a great opportunity for you to work with your Shadow so to speak. Feelings of mild intensity don't have a grip on you and allow you to create a necessary distance between them and your objective neutral observer that makes decisions about what to do and what not to do.

But here we are discussing "love" for a client, which I prefer to call a "temporary insanity" that therapist experiences. This type of feelings IMO is way too intense and, frankly, toxic for a T to be able to fulfill his/her duty. The only responsible thing a T is able to do in this case IMO is to be honest about the reality of what's going on, to recognize that he is currently not in a mental state that is required to do his job well and to refer the client to someone who can serve them better.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My T says she only uses the word love towards her family. She said that her feelings about me might be similar to my feelings for her, but we both agreed that my feelings are more intense. And that's okay. I wouldn't want her to care about me as much as I care about her. What's most important is that she cares about me.

[elisewin]

Of course there can be and often is loving feelings involved.