Feeling bitter and resentful about therapist's situation

@SalingerEsme: Yeah; that does put things into perspective. I'm also feeling disillusioned: at the end of the day, this is just a job to them. I'm skeptical that therapists actually care about us as individual persons than cases to work on. We sit across from them, talking and sharing our thoughts, feelings, and history with them. But I have this image in my mind where therapists just view us as ink on paper - an object without feelings that they can throwaway. I don't think that we're worth anything more to them than the money we pay them or the narcissistic pleasure that we give them when they think that they're helping us.

At the end of the day, it's an illusion - all forms of relationships. We may live in a shared space in time, but there is no such thing as a shared reality; each person's reality is an isolated experience. We give each other the illusion that we are connected, but in reality, we are not. Life is futile. We do so much, but it's all in vain. Some people realize this living hell while others are oblivious to it. How much deader can one actually get when they physically die.

Couldn’t agree more.

I’ve had absolutely no luck confronting my therapist about it though. She seems to just not get it.

I find the deliberate — and I do think it’s deliberate — obtuseness to be rather callous and cruel. Even more so than the actual injury.

I've also been thinking about what is it that I'm really angry at.

Sure; this triggers unresolved infancy issues, but I don't think that's the primary reason that's making me angry or the only thing that's making me angry about this situation.

If the therapist tells me that she isn't needed there, but wants to move because it would give her meaningful joy to be with family, I would respect and appreciate that and wouldn't be so angry. In fact, I think imagine much of my anger fading away if that's her reason.

If the therapist tells me that she is needed or wanted there, so she is moving, I find it difficult to respect or appreciate it.

I posted on a forum for moms and babies to find out what it's like raising a premature baby and whether they'd want their mom or MIL moving in with them. The general consensus was that help was appreciated - specifically help with cooking, cleaning, and laundry. And for some of them, they said that their mom did move in to help for a couple of weeks to a few weeks. One said four weeks, and that it was plenty. And a few others said that it's definitely possible for even one parent alone to raise a premature baby - so let alone two parents and now the therapist as a grandmother. A couple of sessions ago when my anger was triggered, I asked the therapist if this was a golden baby or child.

So this is what I resent and cannot appreciate and makes me angry - if the therapist is moving because she is wanted over there for whatever reason. I think that if two people decide to have a child, they should bear all responsibilities and consequences - even if it means that one parent has to be the sole breadwinner of the family while the other parent delays his or her career and becomes a stay-at-home mom or dad. And even though I say f**k family, I wouldn't want my mom cooking, cleaning, and doing laundry regardless. Every once in a while is fine, but to move in for that reason is absurd. As much as I f**k family, my mom isn't a maid. No; the therapist's family isn't the kind that would "fall into economic hardship in the face of adversity." If the therapist is moving to help cook, clean, do laundry, and so they can have the career that they dream for, I cannot appreciate that and am angry about it. I believe in utilizing one's own internal resources. Not that I don't ask for help, but I think that we should exhaust our own resources first before we look to others. I also think that we should be responsible for our decisions and consequences and not expect others to help make sacrifices for us.

And maybe I just don't have that maternal or paternal instinct in me. I asked a few friends who are moms who said that they'd move to help while my male friends all said it's absurd.

Maybe I'm reading too much into what your are writing, mindmechanic, but it seems to me that you are expressing envy.

You need your T and now there are these people who claim to need your T more than you do and your T also considers their need to be more important than your need. Moreover, you have done your research and convinced yourself that they cannot possibly need your T that much and thus it is even more unjust - because your T is still prioritising their need higher than yours. I bet that realisation can make very angry which actually covers the envy.

Maybe the t wasnt around for her daughter as an infant?

I didn't do research because of this. I already knew the therapist's background when we started working together two and a half year's ago. I don't want to disclose details of her personal or professional information, but it was not difficult to find anything about her on the web.

I'm not sure it's envy so much anymore because like I said, if she tells me that she isn't needed or wanted there, but wants to move because it'll give her meaningful joy, much of my anger was dissipate.

Do they, though, have that responsibility commensurate to their level of tone and what they portray as if"? We are just a job to them. They aren't actually any personal significant figure in our lives.

I can totally get behind the idea that they don’t.

But, my problem then is that they really lay it on thick with the “as-if”.

I’d so much rather prefer honesty, brutal as it may be.

I tried explaining to my therapist using Coleridge’s “willing suspension of disbelief” — at some point, the make-believe-ness of it is hard to sustain for the client. And, it’s only the client who pays the price for it, imho.

[QUOTE]My T would say you are on the right track here putting your finger on what it is that comes up for you with this. For us the patients, we experience real attachment; for the T's for all they may or may not like us, they maintain a detachment. I would say they take us more personally than an accountant but less personally than a great teacher in high school. However, our brains and nervous systems and hearts think we are having a real attachment experience. I wonder though- we could never afford it- if we saw as many T's as they do clients- or if we saw 3 T's a week, if that power to make us ignore reality would dwindle? If the power did dwindle, so would their influence that cures/ heals. Therapy is weird bc it is kind of based on a lie for our own good. My T is harsh, but he is honest. He doesn't really pretend hr cares . He just says he is really good at his job and has successful outcomes treating trauma, he is empathetic and uses all the interventions and skills really seenlessly and he pretends to care. After a while it feels real, until the next bump in the road.

I do believe two honest mature people can transcend isolation sometimes and reach each other. I think even in sessions, patients and T's have breathtaking moments of connection that are real & raw. They just don't add up to a real life relationship. Martn Buber had his theory of I -it and I-thou relationships. I-it is when you use people for something; I thou is a tender altruistic seeing & feeling of the other person's humanity. Martin Buber didn't think there was a god above us but a god amongst us, and if you picture a kid's game of connect-the-dots, god is the lines drawn between the dots when humans learn to love. I don't doubt that humans can love, but I do think the T's sometimes pretend the relationship is I-thou when it is more I-it.

Hmm; even if my needs are true, the therapist doesn't act like a parent and I don't experience her as such either.

Anyway, yes, I doubt that she is absolutely needed. The baby already has two parents. And like a few people on the forum for moms and babies said, one parent is enough to raise a premature baby, let alone two parents and now a grandparent. How does that compare to fifteen over patients who might not have anyone? I doubt that this is envy. People say that family comes first. Personally, I'd go by whoever needs me the most and also how many people actually need me versus one person. Need sounds dependent, but I can't think of another word at this point. Benefit?

This sounds a lot like what people say in many circumstances where they feel wronged. "If only my abuser would apology to me, I could heal."

If someone would just do X, it would be better for me. I'm not sure this IF-THEN scenario is ever accurate, but it's untestable most of the time because it depends on someone else doing or saying or being different than they are.

I think it's natural to feel wronged when a T leaves a job or a community, ultimately leaving clients. Anger like anything else is just anger. It doesn't hurt anybody unless you act on it. I'm not criticizing you or judging you for it. I do wonder if it would be helpful for you to be inquisitive about your beliefs and the reasons for them. For me, focusing on myself in a situation where I have no control helps me understand myself better and cope with the stress of what is going on.

[QUOTE=SalingerEsme;6169035]Great minds think alike.

I spent many an hour discussing exactly this (okay, arguing) — “If you can see other clients, I can see other therapists”.

She didn’t seem okay with the idea that I could see other therapists — she didn’t say an outright No to seeing me under those circumstances but said she’ll have to think about it.

She also didn’t have an answer to why it wasn’t okay other than muttering something about transference. Then, she essentially threw her hands up in the air and apologized for not having a better reason why and then said that when she was in therapy, she couldn’t imagine seeing two therapists.

But, I’ve heard this from other therapists as well.

Btw, I used to think the power of therapy would dwindle but I’m beginning to think that it’ll actually be really freeing and empowering (cost aside).

I think I would be so confused if I saw that many therapists. LoL. But it's an interesting thought in theory.

@Anne2.0: I see myself as being concrete and realistic when I say that. Maybe that's because I don't understand the value of family. Or maybe it isn't something to understand. Maybe it's just a different belief system. If a family member needs help, but someone who I work with or a friend is in greater need of help or would benefit more if I'm to help them, I'd help the latter. I hope this doesn't make me a heartless person. I cannot make it to attend a sibling's wedding ceremony because I work in a crisis setting that's understaffed this summer. I weigh objectively the benefits and make a decision. How someone is related to me doesn't matter.

I do think part of your not being to understand or relate to t’s reason for moving might have something to do with your not understanding what family can mean to some people. Many people do put family first over everyone else.

I do find it interesting that you think if she told you the reason she was going there would be meaningful for her, you wouldn’t feel angry anymore, but if it is “just” to help, that is not okay? Also, can’t both be true?

Another point of view-I was born at 24 weeks, and was in the hospital for 4 months before I was released. I also massively beat the odds. I had a 10% chance of survival, and even less chance of not having any sort of health complications. I had the “normal” problems of a baby born that early, and it was touch and go for a bit-but i left the hospital without any complications. This is rare. Anyway- my parents moved into my grandparents house for a year. I may have been relatively healthy, but i still wasn’t like a fully developed newborn. It took my mom HOURS to feed me 2oz of milk. My grandparents helped a lot that first year.

I know you don’t know the baby’s situation, but there can be many complications, and a premature birth is traumatic for all involved.

[QUOTE=awkwardlyyours;6169049]My past T involved another T in my therapy the last year that I was with her. She had no problems and actively encouraged me to see this T. My current T wants me to see an EMDR T, so i don’t think it isn’t as foreign of a concept.

Yeah; it doesn't sit well with me if she is going there just to help not because meaningful joy is the only or primary reason.. Because like I said, I'm sure fifteen over patients would benefit from her staying here than one baby would benefit if she moves to help it.

If she tells me that she is going there because that one baby's life would benefit more than over fifteen patients lives would benefit from her staying here and not moving, I'd also be okay with that. Fair enough for me.

Thank you for sharing what it was like when you were a premature baby.

Is it possible that she will get "meaningful joy" out of helping her daughter and grandchild? It doesn't have to be either/or--helping or joy.

@LonesomeTonight: I thought about that. If her child or grandchild doesn't actually need her, but she is going there because it'll make her happy, I'd be okay with it. Helping can certainly bring joy, but I'd be okay with it only if it is actually needed and they would benefit more from her than over fifteen patients would if she stays here. Yeah; that seems to be what I believe.

Mindmechanic, the more you write, the more I really get where you’re coming from. It’s interesting to see the process of all this unfolding, and seeing how a really rigid position can soften and let other people in enough to find at least a path to a solution. I’ve got a lot to learn about that myself.
Something jumped out at me when you talked about what you imagine your Ts role will be when she moves, that made me think ‘oh. There’s something quite protective of the T in there, too. This isn’t all the singular me-me-me stance it felt like at the start (I hope you don’t mind me saying that, it’s not what I see now).
Maybe part of it is also that you can’t stand the thought of her ‘throwing away’ what you see as skilled and vital work, to take on someone else’s housework. I kind of see you shaking your head and thinking, ‘what are you DOING?! This is not you!’.
Maybe it’s also too much mundane reality - I can imagine feeling
like T had somehow fallen from a pedestal and suddenly become very human,
bad life decisions and all.
Reading what you wrote at the start of the thread it felt a bit to me at the start of the thread was you were almost expecting T to be some kind of Super T, like a super hero who surpassed the pesky dramas and pulls of every day to be the perfect professional.
Again, no judgement here, while I don’t feel that way when I’m adulting, when I slip into a child like place, things that I purport to accept as a grown up are not at all ok for me. In some ways, I think you’re actually just more honest and braver in expressing those uncomfortable, sometimes shameful feelings than the rest of us. Where it gets tricky, of course, is where things are acted out, rather than dealt with in words, the only thing we really have available to us in therapy. It seems to me that you are using your words very well, and in a way that is protective of what is an important relationship to you. There are a ton of dark and difficult behaviours that this could go to, but you’re not going there. I think you’re doing great, and I admire your ability to really reflect on things and be flexible, but also hold your ground here and not get pulled into conflict over some of the more challenging comments.

Exactly. This was actually exactly what I said to the therapist. I said to her that she didn't go through all this training in the recent years and to be dedicated to her work only to become a nanny and raise a baby all over again. And her child and spouse can't be dependent on her indefinitely; she's not going to live forever or outlive them. That's why I said on here and to the therapist as well that I'd be so mad if she went there to also do house chores like cleaning, cooking, and laundry - cleaning her grown child and the spouse's bathroom, folding their clothes and undergarments, scraping dirt out of the oven, et cetera. I said to her that that isn't her responsibility. As much as I'm schizoid and do not value family, I wouldn't treat my mom like that even if I'm down in the dumps. If my mom insists on helping and wants me to go back to work part-time, there's a chance I might agree to it if my mom doesn't have a job that's like being a therapist. In which case, I'd consider myself extremely lucky and privileged. I think that the therapist's child, spouse, and grandchild are extremely lucky and I hope that they are grateful and appreciative. They better be. And I also think that one year is a whole lot of commitment. Three months to six months and then assessing the situation to see if the stay should or needs to be extended is more understandable and wouldn't make me so mad. Anyway, that's why I was put off when some people on the forum for moms and babies said that they appreciated their mom coming over or staying for a few weeks to help cook, clean, and do laundry. Maybe it's generational. It seems that millennials are more dependent on their parents than people born before the 70's. The therapist doesn't even plan on retiring and instead plans to see patients until she is unable to do so anymore. She worked as an MD - generalist or something like that - all her life, but only switched to psychoanalytic psychotherapy and analytic work the past ten years or so and is now a therapist. She better not be washing anybody else's undergarments - or socks! I think it'll be easier she just tells me the reason that motivated her move because she thinks it's justifiable. Even if I don't agree with it, at least I can understand it from her point it view. It's better than guessing.

And yes; I'm very honest and blunt when it comes to expressing what's on my mind. I can be diplomatic if I can keep my sh-!t together; otherwise, I am not someone who sugar coats things. I'm real like that. I've been called an a-hole in other places because of this, so it's not only being attacked or whatever on this forum. Well; in terms of this situation sending me to dark places, I don't self-harm, do drugs, or drink, so no worries there. It's more emotional pain to put it simply, maybe some depressed and tired days, and losing appetite.

I see the therapist for in-person the second last time in about two hours.

!!!!!!!!??????? If she wants to take on this responsibility, who the H are you to tell her she can't?? This is about her and her needs not yours. Deal with it.

@justafriend306: Every time you post on this thread, you trigger my anger.

That is the perfect way to phrase this. I have been grappling with this one different levels- the ethos and the ethics of it.

yeah mine too, and i am not in this situation. there is a better way to word things without blaming and shaming.

If a therapist leaves a client hanging, even for a good reason, it's still FAILED THERAPY.

She should not have sewn the seeds of dependency when doing so could lead to a disaster. Yes, relationships in real life can end suddenly, but people pay therapists for the alleged "safety". Either therapy provides a measure of real safety, or it does not. If it does not, then starting the process with people who tolerate ruptures badly is unethical.

It's weird that people defend the therapist on the grounds that she is not required to do this or that. Of course she's not, the system is set up to serve therapists.

Seems to me prospective new therapists should have a sliding scale for people who've endured failed therapy. Most therapists are overpaid parasites anyway. When i was shopping for a new one, a few wanted $200-220/hr. Cute.