Couch 177: I Get a Strange Magic - ELO

Yes, she does that and it probably qualifies as acting out. But bullying?

A patient acting out can be a sign that she's not comfortable raising the real issues in session. T needs to make it easy for her to do that, not slap her down when she does.

Friend made a hurtful assumption about me because she was/is in a high amount of emotional pain. Still hurts because the things she assumed I don't understand because I supposedly haven't been through it... I actually have... Intensely, acutely for years.

I was able to set aside my baggage (luckily it was via text!) but it's been hours and I'm still off-balance.

I realise I'm not the kind of friend who can hold space for a friend who is suicidal AND making assumptions about me and my life. It's not that person's fault. It's that the assumption that I've never experienced X and am able to get Y, and being told "You don't understand because you have XYZ and I don't!" is particularly triggering due to my own history.

Yeah, I had and have X Y Z. They look like good things to someone who didn't have them. I get it. That's precisely why I don't talk about it...

Lol, I can never work as a therapist I have too much unresolved baggage haha.

I'm...really not the type of friend I think that person wants me to be... I get too easily triggered. With other friends, I'm not triggered when they're expressing suicidal despair.

Can you tell this friend that you're maybe not the best person to run to after this episode is over? If you don't feel up to the task, you don't have to talk to people. Yes, it will suck a bit for them, but you have to look after yourself first! And you can still be friends with someone even if you don't share every feeling during a crisis with each other.

My strong attraction to blue is making my paintings all look the same, when i try to pint something else i just want to flood it with blues. Wish i wasnt colourblind. Blues and yellows reabout it.

I don't how I can tell them I'm not the right person when the episode is over. They're now saying they need to learn to ask for help, and I know it's difficult for them to actually ask for help. :/ How does one literally tell a hurting other "I care about you but you can't come to me when you're suicidal."

I can't say it's a blanket boundary because I'm actually OK with certain friends. And I'm afraid that if/when I tell them, they'll say "It's because I'm not one of your closest people. That's why you won't help." and the lack of close people is one of the sources of their anguish.

They're a person I care about quite a lot (not that they know it) but I keep a degree of distance because they directly trigger A LOT of my unresolved crap. They know the distance exists (comments they said) but not why.

There's no right answer to your question. But having been in the shoes of that friend, while it will always hurt to hear you can't go to somebody for help, I'd personally like to know if that's the case. I myself would probably word it something like 'I'm currently going through a lot of my own and while I don't want to share what exactly it is, it's hard for me to listen to your issues because of my own struggles'. Then I'd also add that I still care about them and that I'd very much like to help them out again when I'm feeling better myself. If they start telling you it's because they are not a close person, tell them that if that were the case you'd simply not respond to such messages or you'd tell them that they can't come to you at all. Somehow stress that it's really about you, not them. If they choose to not believe that, that's their problem in the end, even if it sucks.

Maybe also add something like that while you can't always listen to their problems, you are willing to just spend time with them without discussing the issues. I mean, when I'm suicidal I usually would love to just talk about the weather with a friend for five hours, just to give me some distraction. You can still be there for somebody without hearing every traumatic thing going on in their life.

Oh, and about the asking for help thing. Most mental health professionals I've talked to agree that while reaching out to friends from time to time is beneficial, it should not usually be your first line of defense when it comes to suicidal thoughts. Because most friends are not equipped to deal with that and will leave in the long run if you continuously come to them talking about these things. So maybe you could also mention something like that, of course don't blame them for it, but say that it won't be possible for you to continuously support them through these thoughts and that they could instead ask for help in the form of just spending time together doing something nice.

Chewing on your words!

I definitely am capable of being a hangout buddy, a friend to talk about distracting things. Someone to grab food and drink with...

Yes, I really want to emphasize that it's not their fault, that I'm simply not capable of being the type of supportive friend they long to have. I do care and I believe they matter, and I want them to have the friendships and loving relationships they've expressed so much longing for.

Thinking on how to word it all. Not to tell them now, of course.

I know that I didn't help them (despite my best efforts) last night when they reached out because they kept saying I have loved ones to seek comfort from, so I don't understand years of chronic loneliness. That I don't understand not mattering to anyone, that I don't understand no one will miss them or that people will get over their grief after some time. I DO understand somewhat. I have similar thoughts when suicidal. Will not presume I understand exactly of course. Because I'm not them. Even if we had the exact same experiences, we're different people.

That last part. I'm sorry you're feeling that way. Big hugs!! I just want to share that I've gone through periods of feeling trapped in the relationship with my t too. It sucks. But I tell her and we talk through it. Or, I quit, and then later regret it and go back and then we talk through it. I'm starting to understand after going back in July (after I quit in June) that this is just going to repeat with me and her until I truly start giving to myself what I get from her. And I think I am finally starting to find that with last night's realizations. More hugs. This stuff is so damn hard.

Oh, and you do matter! You do have value.

Hes just an easier target. He wouldnt kill her like her family would. Im surprised he doesnt see that. She bullies him because she is being bullied. Sorry, Lemoncake! My parents pushed me in college too, to graduate in 3 years. So i would be "only 21" - not too old to get married! At least yours have a sensible reason behind their pushiness? Mine were simply crazy.

Lemoncake, I just don't get how he can charge you for the sessions you are planning to miss. I understand if he is frustrated with your frequent cancellation retractions, and can even understand if he feels manipulated, but I don't get how he has any basis for charging you for sessions you are cancelling ahead of time - unless he has a really long notice period. Also, did you mention to him why you want to take the break? That you have told your mother that you aren't seeing him, and don't know how to explain the time away? And that it's triggering for you to come to his house? I think those are legitimate concerns. What exactly does he feel like you're trying to bully him into?

Some therapists see clients as paying them a salary and collect their fee no matter what any time a client cancels. I don't think it is all that prevalent in the u.s., but it can happen. I think it is less unusual in Europe or the UK where clients contract for such.
I wouldn't do it.
I think that jerkwad Joseph Burgo sets his practice up like that but I don't know why anyone would hire him and deal with his enormous ego to begin with - his fees are outrageous but not his biggest flaw in my opinion.

It seems to me many therapists have a very low threshhold for feeling bullied. They are delicate flowers.

This morning I am fighting an urge to drive to Piaf’s office and scream at her for being a bigot.

They certainly can be super fragile. Self-awareness is really not their hallmark.

I wrote a long post, and lost it.

I've done that, it stinks. Next time you could try typing it in Microsoft Word or a similar program and copying and pasting it to the forum, seems to have a less chance of getting lost that way.

Sorry to anyone who posted in my thread after 10.30pm BST last night. I asked for my thread to be deleted and didn't look again. Someone told me you send me a supportive reply ruh roh, so thanks

I remember there being a warning somewhere when you submit posts about the fact that if you haven't refreshed your browser for too long, the post won't get through. But now I can't find it anymore.

Yeah, I often type mine as a Gmail draft, then copy/paste. I have to fix spacing, but Gmail saves like every 30 seconds, so safer. Plus then I have a copy in my drafts folder.

"Hold the feelings". What does that even mean actually. I told t last night that I'm getting all stupid attached again and that I don't want that and that I need to know what to do with the feelings, specifically to make them go away. She said you don't need to do anything with them just hold them like you have been. I said but.... she said you know the saying the only way out is through. I told her I want a plan for now thru October. Our plan is to revisit where we're at when mid-late October gets here.
Eta: that isn't exactly what I had in mind of course. I so rebel against this open ended, let it unfold stuff. Hmmm.

Sounds like the same as Info’s sit with the feelings stuff. Acknowledge the feelings but don’t act on them.

So like yesterday with your math course instead of going right to “I am going to fail this course,” acknowledge to yourself you feel overwhelmed, maybe take a break, think up solutions—rather than call yourself names or assume the worst case scenario.

Or with the attachment, OK, you’re attached. Stop fighting it, that just makes it worse. Acknowledge to yourself that you love this woman. And there is nothing bad about that. The pain is really coming from the unbalanced nature of a relationship with a therapist.

I think "hold the feelings" means just sitting there with the feelings and not trying to change them actively, just letting them be. My former T said "containing" the feelings a lot which made me think of take-away food and putting it into a container. But I don't think it means exactly that. I think its a passive sense of keeping the feelings where they are and not trying to feel something else until your emotions naturally shift.

Thanks @@ and slumber. Patience is just not one of my strengths when it comes to myself. I hated feeling about 2 years old during my session yesterday evening. Surprised the hell outta me. And her comment comparing me quitting and then coming back to a little kid playing peekaboo... (I deleted that post)... making sure mommy is still there... I don't know how I feel about that. That was when I started sobbing and recognized it was sorta how I felt and it also hurt. A lot. I guess that's how I feel about it. Hurt. I hate how therapy feels sometimes.

Yet I have learned so much, made tremendous progress since I started and many positive changes in my life. And yes. I love that woman. Can I say that without adding an "ugh"? Probly not.

I know I am ping ponging all over the place again.

We were supposed to be getting slammed with rain but so far it is dry. I even managed to get the grass cut because if it does start pouring down rain for the next two days, the grass will be taller than the dogs by the time I am able to get it done.

I think I'm done crying for now unless I start crying tomorrow in Tony the Tiger's office. In which case, I'd probably flee as there are no pillows to hide behind or hug on in her office.

You could take one with you. And a blanket, too!