Electroconvulsive therapy

Have you tried it? What were results? How expensive was it?

Timeforsleep...yes I had ect last year for a severe bout of major depression and the results were good and lasted for about 9 months. Unfortunately I have chronic recurrent major depression so the depression has come back for me but this is not the case for all who have ect. It is rather expensive and if remember correctly about 2-3 thousand dollars per session. I had a total of 12 sessions over a six month period. Since my depession has returned and has gotten worse agin I am thinking about another round of ect and plan to talk to my doctor about it soon. I hope this is helpful for you. It works very well for some people and you never have to have it again but for others you may need follow-up treatments sometimes in the furure.

Thank you Littlemouse. It sounds worth doing. Being I'm a student who only works part time I cannot afford it. Maybe some time in the future.

I had a friend who did ECT for major depression. It really helped him. His depression came back later and he did it again. He was glad to find something that helped as the meds and psychotherapy he had tried had not. The only down side was that he seemed to suffer partial and permanent memory loss. But he felt ECT was worth it since it helped with his depression. Anyway, something to consider, I believe memory loss is a not infrequent effect of this treatment. Good luck

I had posted this in the bipolar forum about a question on ECT, so I'll just copy and paste.

I have never had ECT but I intern at a psych. hospital and a lot of my patients on the mood disorders unit were receiving it. A lot of them reported that it was the only thing that had ever helped their depression (most of them reported that relief would come after about 6 treatments). My patients reported minor short term memory loss, headache, and just feeling "out of it" after the treatment.

I have also observed ECT treatments. The patients are put out for a little while with anesthesia. It is very quick-- they sleep for a bit afterwards and then go home. When I was observing, by the time I was watching the 2nd patient get his treatment, the 1st patient had already gotten up to leave.

ECT in a psychotherapy forum. It strikes me as bizarre. My reaction to the basic idea is one of massive horror. I have briefly seen only a few people who have had it. With one, she did not seem to have a bad reaction. The other two that I can think of were different. But maybe my personal reaction is not a good guide for other people.

I had several rounds of ect a few years ago. My experience was pretty much the same as those described above. I have to add that the memory loss can be pretty severe. I know mine was. My memory did eventually return a little bit at a time. I found this pretty upsetting and scary. My depression did respond well. However, my depression is recurrent as well, so I don't know what the future holds. I may or may not ever need it again. It really isn't as archaic and frightening as many would believe.

I am going to return to this subject:

The intent of psychotherapy, as I see it, is to uncover in a safe way things (thoughts, feelings, memories) that, because they are hidden, are causing trouble. It seems to me that shock treatment does exactly the opposite: it keeps things covered, or tries to.

Of course, the proponents of shock treatments claim that, although they do not understand how it works, it does help. I wonder whom it really "helps"? It occurs to me that it "helps" those giving the treatments more than the victim. That is, it keeps things that otherwise might be very frightening (to some) from being revealed.

And after all, even proponents of this method admit that it does not provide a permanent solution...

I received ECT inpatient several years ago during a bout of deep untreatable (otherwise) depression. It was a life saving procedure that I would do again if need be. Considering the alternative, it is a very safe and effective tool in combatting severe symptoms of depression.

Yes, memory loss existed, and minor headaches afterward which were immediately treated by the nurses. I am certain if I was not offered this procedure inpatient, I would not be here today to relay my experience.

Good luck and take care of you!

Dee

Hi timeforsleep,

I, too, did ECT therapy. I had six treatments this past winter, to treat severe depression. In my case, it didn't help the depression, and it also left me with severe cognitive deficits and ongoing memory loss. The cognitive effects have improved a little bit in the ensuing 10 months or so, but at this point, I am beginning to think there is going to be permanent damage. Yes, it was also expensive - Medicare covered part of the expense, but I did also have had significant bills to pay on my own part.

I know ECT does help some people, but you should be aware that it does have significant risks. Knowing what I know now, I regret ever having done it. I would never do another ECT treatment for any reason in my own case. And for other people, I would only recommend it as a treatment of last resort, if you've tried all other available treatments - thoroughly, with your best effort, and with the best medical assistance you can access - and nothing has helped. That's my thought on it.

If you are a student (I think you said this in another message further down) hopefully you are able to get some sort of counseling support through your school or college. Many colleges have good counseling centers. Thinking of you - please take gentle care of yourself.

Take care,
ErinBear

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pachyderm said:
I am going to return to this subject:

The intent of psychotherapy, as I see it, is to uncover in a safe way things (thoughts, feelings, memories) that, because they are hidden, are causing trouble. It seems to me that shock treatment does exactly the opposite: it keeps things covered, or tries to.

Of course, the proponents of shock treatments claim that, although they do not understand how it works, it does help. I wonder whom it really "helps"? It occurs to me that it "helps" those giving the treatments more than the victim. That is, it keeps things that otherwise might be very frightening (to some) from being revealed.

And after all, even proponents of this method admit that it does not provide a permanent solution...

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Neither do meds or therapy, though. There is absolutely nothing that can be proven or guaranteed as a permanent solution. In fact, often clinical depression is a permanent problem that has to be dealt with throughout life.

Obviously I am the biggest fan of therapy since I am going to be a therapist myself, but there is a thing that exists that is treatment-resistant depression. When someone is depressed to the point in which all functioning as ceased, there is no time to wait for meds or therapy, especially if these things aren't going to work anyway.

Also, not everyone with depression has tons of stuff to uncover. Some people truly have depression rooted in a bioogical nature. That doesn't mean that there isn't always stuff to explore in therapy, but I'm just saying that there isn't always "hidden" stuff causing the trouble.

I'm not sure I understand how doing the treatments "helps" those doing them by keeping stuff hidden. It's not like the therapists themselves are doing the treatments. I know that where I work, the treatments are done by two specific psychiatrists at the hospital who don't have any outside ties to the patient.

I agree with you about the intent of psychotherapy. I have the strong belief that psychotherapy should accompany any other type of therapy-- whether that is medication or ECT. Even those that have depression that is mostly biological in nature-- there is value in psychotherapy-- at least to talk about the nature of the depression and how one is dealing with that. It makes me sad when I see how many individuals receive medication without any psychotherapy in conjunction.

> often clinical depression is a permanent problem that has to be dealt with throughout life.

Labelling it as "permanent" is quite a daunting prognosis, I think. Wouldn't you say it depends on the treatment? Something accepted (by "authorities") at one point may not be so accepted at another. The sufferer of the depression may be affected by the prognosis given by "authority."

> there is a thing that exists that is treatment-resistant depression

Indeed; I suggest as above, that is related to the "treatment" as well as the depression.

> Some people truly have depression rooted in a bioogical nature.

Do you know this as a "fact"?

> I'm not sure I understand how doing the treatments "helps" those doing them by keeping stuff hidden. It's not like the therapists themselves are doing the treatments.

No, psychotherapists don't do that kind of treatment. I think some "treatments" are done in haste to relieve the anxieties of the treaters (not psychotherapists in this case). I think that those who advise and carry out shock treatment call themselves therapists too.

Sorry [not really] if I offend anyone, but it is the interests of the patients (me) I have primarily in mind.

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pachyderm said:
> often clinical depression is a permanent problem that has to be dealt with throughout life.

Labelling it as "permanent" is quite a daunting prognosis, I think. Wouldn't you say it depends on the treatment? Something accepted (by "authorities") at one point may not be so accepted at another. The sufferer of the depression may be affected by the prognosis given by "authority."

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Which is why I said 'often,' rather than 'always.' There are various levels of depression and subtypes-- grief related, other situational types, major, dysthymic, chronic, melancholic, etc. There is a difference between curable and treatable and the truth is, a lot of times depression is treatable, but not curable. I just wanted to clarify that I was not trying to give depression a negative prognosis-- there is a lot of positivity and hope in the belief of treatment without the belief of a cure. I don't believe my depression will be cured or will go away permanently-- but I do believe that if find the correct meds (hopefully the one I am on-- the 15th one, is it) and keep working hard with T, I will be able to treat and manage my depression well. I agree with you that it does dependon the treatment. Also, the type of depression matters. Bipolar depression responds best to meds and therapy together. Situational depression responds best to therapy without medication. And I have seen quite a few of my patients at the hospital respond beautifully to ECT. But I will still maintain that psychotherapy should be used in conjunction with ANYTHING.

> I have seen quite a few of my patients at the hospital respond beautifully to ECT.

In what way?

Let me indicate to you why I am so involved with this question. Maybe this is a mistake. I really should not prejudice your answer.

I was "offered" ECT at least twice. I turned it down. But I did not believe at those times that it was really my choice. In my life, with my mother, I perceived that it was worth my life to disagree with her, to go against any wishes that she had, even if she "invited" me to make a choice. Any choice I made that wasn't what she wanted would likely result in severe punishment -- at times so frightening that I think I believed she would kill me if I made the wrong choice. She told me (and my brothers) she would "break" us.

This resulted, I think, in dissociation so severe, an internal "going away" in order to not experience the level of fear that I was feeling, that I have lost memories of a great deal of my childhood. I suppose you could say I "responded beautifully" to the treatment -- I forgot all about it. Almost. It came back to bite me when called upon to become a full adult. Now I am having to work through it again. Very difficult. But rewarding in a manner wholly different than forgetting.

I am now trying to become a real person, not the completely compliant one that my mother seemed to desire. I react to the thought of shock treatment as another attempt to make me into a robot, one who never disagrees, one who doesn't even think disagreement. Maybe others with a different history would not react the same way. The ones who offered me shock treatment never bothered to inquire into what was really going on with me to see how I might react to it.

I didn't think it was bizzare to post this here, pachyderm. Could you please recommend a better category? Please excuse my post I am kind of new here and I will try to be more careful about what I post here in the future. Thanks for your informative answers. You seem to know a lot about ECT.

Newer members are allowed some flexibility in which forum they post in as long as they seem to have appropriate intent. I have felt that this thread got pretty intense, and went off into discussions that lost the purpose of answering the original poster's question. ECT can be a hot issue. However, we all need to keep in mind that when we respond in a thread what matters is supporting the OP. If you're not sure what the OP is looking for, either post and ask, or PM and ask. If the issue brings up other things that you want to talk about, sometimes it is best to start a new thread.

Thanks,
Rapunzel

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timeforsleep said:
I didn't think it was bizzare to post this here, pachyderm.

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It is in my mind that the fear is about this topic. Not your fault.