[darkside8]

My T knows I had some coping strategies when i was a teenager, however, I have refused to ever share these and have said i believe they are not important. She smiled a bit at that part lol and said she can explain why they are important - your coping strategies as a little girl will say a lot about how you are coping now etc. Made some sense, but I still refused due to the discomfort.

How am I left to feel now? Guilty of course. I feel bad for blatantly refusing to share something with my T who i know has my best interest at heart, and who also believes this is important. Can anyone provide more explanation as to why this is important to share? These are no longer my coping strategies. Thanks.

I think the word is YET.
You may not be ready yet to share.
Time changes a lot in therapy.

[piggy momma]

You will share when you are ready.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

I agree with the others, if you don't feel like sharing it right now, you can decide to do so later, or even not at all. Don't push yourself to talk about things you don't want to currently.

That being said, why your T might be asking about these past strategies is because it tells your T how you were able to deal with things when you were younger. Some people already have good coping strategies at a young age. Others never develop any healthy strategies and continue unhealthy ones into adulthood. Some grow out of unhealthy ones, but it still says something about your mind at that time, even if it doesn't directly connect to something that's happening now.

[darkside8]

Originally Posted by ChickenNoodleSoup

I agree with the others, if you don't feel like sharing it right now, you can decide to do so later, or even not at all. Don't push yourself to talk about things you don't want to currently.

That being said, why your T might be asking about these past strategies is because it tells your T how you were able to deal with things when you were younger. Some people already have good coping strategies at a young age. Others never develop any healthy strategies and continue unhealthy ones into adulthood. Some grow out of unhealthy ones, but it still says something about your mind at that time, even if it doesn't directly connect to something that's happening now.

Makes sense - thank you for the clarity!

[Anne2.0]

For me, control is a big thing. I want to control what I disclose and when in therapy. But my T was never pushy about encouraging me to share. He has actually been the reverse, encouraging me to wait until I'm ready, until I had to ask him to push me.

For me, being open in therapy encourages me to be open in real life, and I don't mean just "sharing" everything with people, but being open to doing things differently, seeing things in new ways or at least understanding there might be a better way to do and see things. I used to be closed off to others, and closed off to myself.

It seems like you have posted a few threads that are thematic about information sharing, as if you are afraid of disclosing things about yourself. If this is true, what's that about? Are you afraid your T will judge you, or that it will reopen old wounds?

[darkside8]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

For me, control is a big thing. I want to control what I disclose and when in therapy. But my T was never pushy about encouraging me to share. He has actually been the reverse, encouraging me to wait until I'm ready, until I had to ask him to push me.

For me, being open in therapy encourages me to be open in real life, and I don't mean just "sharing" everything with people, but being open to doing things differently, seeing things in new ways or at least understanding there might be a better way to do and see things. I used to be closed off to others, and closed off to myself.

It seems like you have posted a few threads that are thematic about information sharing, as if you are afraid of disclosing things about yourself. If this is true, what's that about? Are you afraid your T will judge you, or that it will reopen old wounds?

correct...

I think sometimes people develop not-so-healthy "coping" controlling or avoidance strategies that manifest in different forms throughout life unless we recognize and understand them, then make efforts to do it differently. Many of these tend to be very ingrained and hard to change behavioral tendencies, I think this is why a T might be interested in past ones. For example, I had different issues with self-defeating control and excess such as an eating disorder, substance addiction, excessively using various things to avoid/escape something I don't want to deal with momentarily. For example, when someone has addictive tendencies, they often trade one for another in a long chain, another example could be engaging with abusive people repeatedly. If you have difficulties fearing judgment in various situations, that might also be something like that. I think it can also be helpful to revisit how you were able to get out of unhelpful strategies in the past and develop new one - what worked in the past might work again to beat something current.

In general though, I agree with those saying that you do not have to disclose to your T anything you don't want to. It is perfectly okay to tell them you don't want to talk about XYZ. I did that sometimes in therapy because he T seemed specially interested in a particular topic but I felt it was irrelevant to my problems or who I am. I don't think therapists are psychic or even wiser than the average educated person, they make a lot of guesses and assumptions, especially when they don't know someone well yet. What, I think, is worth doing though is assessing whether a topic is truly irrelevant or there is some more complex insecurity/avoidance associated with it. I personally would have liked my Ts to be more inquisitive and probing into my avoidances and BS instead of just accepting everything. It is not easy to do well though and can lead to serious misunderstandings, why it is useful to tell them directly if a topic is relevant/wanted or not.

[DP_2017]

I had a similar one, I ended up writing it down and handing it to him. His response "That's common" and we talked about it from there. It mad me feel ok about it right away when he didn't shame it or make it seem odd etc.

It is scary for sure but it could be good to get it out

[darkside8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I think sometimes people develop not-so-healthy "coping" controlling or avoidance strategies that manifest in different forms throughout life unless we recognize and understand them, then make efforts to do it differently. Many of these tend to be very ingrained and hard to change behavioral tendencies, I think this is why a T might be interested in past ones. For example, I had different issues with self-defeating control and excess such as an eating disorder, substance addiction, excessively using various things to avoid/escape something I don't want to deal with momentarily. For example, when someone has addictive tendencies, they often trade one for another in a long chain, another example could be engaging with abusive people repeatedly. If you have difficulties fearing judgment in various situations, that might also be something like that. I think it can also be helpful to revisit how you were able to get out of unhelpful strategies in the past and develop new one - what worked in the past might work again to beat something current.

In general though, I agree with those saying that you do not have to disclose to your T anything you don't want to. It is perfectly okay to tell them you don't want to talk about XYZ. I did that sometimes in therapy because he T seemed specially interested in a particular topic but I felt it was irrelevant to my problems or who I am. I don't think therapists are psychic or even wiser than the average educated person, they make a lot of guesses and assumptions, especially when they don't know someone well yet. What, I think, is worth doing though is assessing whether a topic is truly irrelevant or there is some more complex insecurity/avoidance associated with it. I personally would have liked my Ts to be more inquisitive and probing into my avoidances and BS instead of just accepting everything. It is not easy to do well though and can lead to serious misunderstandings, why it is useful to tell them directly if a topic is relevant/wanted or not.

I second the liking T's to be more inquisitive and probing into avoidances. Your examples of coping remind me of my past and current ones. They have all served one purpose - to help me run away/avoid certain thoughts/feelings. So I assume simply telling my T, for now, that my coping strategies have been that, an addiction to one thing, which I would eventually leave for another, and here we are today, continuing to develop new unhealthy ones for temporary healing. Should perhaps be a decent amount of information to move forward without explicitly sharing what they are, till I'm ready...

If you have tendencies for addictions/excess to avoid things, I would keep an eye on how you use therapy. The biggest problem for me was that it ended up being yet another addiction, it became a distraction more than anything else. I talked to the Ts about all sorts of things, including the addictions, but it became very diffuse and went all over the map instead of actually addressing the one thing (or a few) that truly caused pretty much all of my problems - the unhealthy avoidance strategies and seeking immediate gratification/escape from feelings and discomfort. And making my discomfort much worse in the long run with engaging in bad habits, including some that really affected both my physical and mental health. My therapy was not successful because first I chose the wrong T or me, then someone good but I more engaged in enjoyable conversations with him or used him as a dumping ground rather than actually changing/developing something better. And unfortunately he went along with it for some reason, probably in part because he tried to be careful and did not want to push me and, I also believe, in part because he actually avoided truly working his role and got hooked on the interestingness and variety of our interactions and a sense of similarity between the two of us. Now if I ever wanted to try therapy again, I would only choose and stay with someone truly pragmatic, unlike my last T who claimed that but did not demonstrate at all.

Also, I don't want to divert the topic of this thread but I read on another one from you that you like how your T appreciates your intelligence and insightfulness. I had that experience as well with both. That was not what got me hooked but it's been the code of my life and my most characteristic go-to, something that I received attention for in my whole life, including my family of origin, schools, career, friends... and I use it as an easy/effortless way out of many hard situations. The addictions, for example, which have nothing to do with being intelligent and insightful, they are dysfunctional actions driven by momentary feelings and cannot be resolved by even the most extraordinary insight or deep conversation, only hardcore action and doing things differently. And sometimes it involves going to places we don't want to reveal and address. If you have addictive issues, I would suggest that you don't wait until you feel more comfortable to tackle them - it may well never happen and the problems will only persist. I often see on this forum people advocating that it is not a good idea to put pressure on negative feelings and allow them to exist until someone is ready... I tend to disagree with that because, I think, often that "ready" never comes until way too late, when there is already a lot of destruction, wasted time and regrets. Feelings and discomfort actually often respond to constructive action and interaction very well, the problem is that we wait for some motivation too long to get into it. That we need time to get ready. For me, none of my significant problems were of that nature (something that would really need waiting), that sense and perception was more my own avoidance.

I don't personally tend to fear judgment and criticism much but I think the avoidance due to that fear is also an act to "prevent" momentary discomfort. Many of my best experiences of personal growth have come when I pushed myself and acted in spite of my anxiety, shame, or a sense of lacking the necessary resources. Another problems with waiting much in therapy, I think, is that we might be with the wrong T and not find out until so much time and money is wasted on it, on actually seeking comfort at the expense of true growth and change.

[darkside8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

If you have tendencies for addictions/excess to avoid things, I would keep an eye on how you use therapy. The biggest problem for me was that it ended up being yet another addiction, it became a distraction more than anything else. I talked to the Ts about all sorts of things, including the addictions, but it became very diffuse and went all over the map instead of actually addressing the one thing (or a few) that truly caused pretty much all of my problems - the unhealthy avoidance strategies and seeking immediate gratification/escape from feelings and discomfort. And making my discomfort much worse in the long run with engaging in bad habits, including some that really affected both my physical and mental health. My therapy was not successful because first I chose the wrong T or me, then someone good but I more engaged in enjoyable conversations with him or used him as a dumping ground rather than actually changing/developing something better. And unfortunately he went along with it for some reason, probably in part because he tried to be careful and did not want to push me and, I also believe, in part because he actually avoided truly working his role and got hooked on the interestingness and variety of our interactions and a sense of similarity between the two of us. Now if I ever wanted to try therapy again, I would only choose and stay with someone truly pragmatic, unlike my last T who claimed that but did not demonstrate at all.

Also, I don't want to divert the topic of this thread but I read on another one from you that you like how your T appreciates your intelligence and insightfulness. I had that experience as well with both. That was not what got me hooked but it's been the code of my life and my most characteristic go-to, something that I received attention for in my whole life, including my family of origin, schools, career, friends... and I use it as an easy/effortless way out of many hard situations. The addictions, for example, which have nothing to do with being intelligent and insightful, they are dysfunctional actions driven by momentary feelings and cannot be resolved by even the most extraordinary insight or deep conversation, only hardcore action and doing things differently. And sometimes it involves going to places we don't want to reveal and address. If you have addictive issues, I would suggest that you don't wait until you feel more comfortable to tackle them - it may well never happen and the problems will only persist. I often see on this forum people advocating that it is not a good idea to put pressure on negative feelings and allow them to exist until someone is ready... I tend to disagree with that because, I think, often that "ready" never comes until way too late, when there is already a lot of destruction, wasted time and regrets. Feelings and discomfort actually often respond to constructive action and interaction very well, the problem is that we wait for some motivation too long to get into it. That we need time to get ready. For me, none of my significant problems were of that nature (something that would really need waiting), that sense and perception was more my own avoidance.

I don't personally tend to fear judgment and criticism much but I think the avoidance due to that fear is also an act to "prevent" momentary discomfort. Many of my best experiences of personal growth have come when I pushed myself and acted in spite of my anxiety, shame, or a sense of lacking the necessary resources. Another problems with waiting much in therapy, I think, is that we might be with the wrong T and not find out until so much time and money is wasted on it, on actually seeking comfort at the expense of true growth and change.

I'm so glad you mentioned keeping an eye on how I use therapy because I'm literally using it as a coping strategy. The thought of quitting, which I've had because now therapy is all I think of, immediately makes my life so much harder to manage. Therapy is currently always on my mind, distracting me from other thoughts that cause me anxiety. Though the thoughts about therapy do somewhat cause me to spend hours ruminating, I prefer that over other thoughts and feelings. It hasn't been healthy. I do also agree with some things having to be said as soon as, rather than waiting, but if I mention this to my T, how may she respond? How could she possibly help with this?

If she is a decent person and professional, I doubt she would judge you negatively, more likely that she would be glad that you shared as that can guide her to focus on your true problems rather than surface cover. I guess a T could help to keep the focus on the real issues and challenge you if they are so inclined (unlike mine in the past). I had a few people in my life (not Ts) that were immensely helpful in that way and it always involved calling me out on my BS and avoidance, or the excessive thinking and rumination as yet another way to diffuse things and escape. I also found that the people who were truly good at this and helpful never approached it from a sense of negative judgment and superiority (those are just signs of one's insecurity I think) but because they were genuinely interested and actually understood me rather than misunderstood or projected their favorite ideas. I grew up with a father like that so it is easy for me to recognize when it is truly constructive, but I think one can learn it as well. I really think that therapy can lead people onto many false tracks and useless investigations if it is not approached with a critical attitude. But I think only the client can really lead that, Ts usually do not initiate scrutiny unless they become defensive for their own sake. You see, one reason for sharing uncomfortable things with the T is exactly to see how they respond. If the responses are not helpful, you can look for someone else already knowing what did not work.

I definitely had that issue with therapy-related stuff occupying my mind excessively. Many people on this forum experience a version they describe as attachment, for me it wasn't that, it was literally getting stuck in analysis paralysis, which I am very prone to by default and have always been. I often experienced it as very stimulating and gratifying - I like to dissect things and find patterns in everything, to understand how things related inside out, and for a while it felt like therapy was the perfect playground, doing it with someone else interested and apparently trained to do just what I like to do on my own as well! But it wasn't really helpful and did not solve anything for me, it was mostly just another introspective journey without substantial practical benefit.

What you described

always on my mind, distracting me from other thoughts that cause me anxiety

is very much how I tend to exacerbate my anxiety as well. My baseline anxiety is really not that bad but I can expand it and make it unbearable with avoidance and with unhealthy habits, which never actually work because I am not dissociative and those things never get out of my awareness, it is just like taking a pain pill that does not even work well and will wear off in a couple hours. If the strategies help in critical moments, only if temporarily, I think it is good. But eventually it is better to get to the roots rather than just medicating the symptoms, if possible. I think this is why Ts generally like to explore the past, because the roots are often there. But not always, sometimes they are just a physiological condition more than anything else that generates the thoughts and feelings, a brain that tend to be hyperactive and overstimulated. I think anxiety is often very much like that, especially generalized anxiety. Then we project it into all sorts of external things or try to manage it with actions and experiences that alleviate the anxiety in the moment, for a short while. It ultimately works much better to learn to tolerate it and not get paralyzed by it. I think many people who suffer with excessive rumination and a distractible mind can also benefit from medications, but those effects often don't last and then the meds need to be re-adjusted or changed.

[darkside8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

If she is a decent person and professional, I doubt she would judge you negatively, more likely that she would be glad that you shared as that can guide her to focus on your true problems rather than surface cover. I guess a T could help to keep the focus on the real issues and challenge you if they are so inclined (unlike mine in the past). I had a few people in my life (not Ts) that were immensely helpful in that way and it always involved calling me out on my BS and avoidance, or the excessive thinking and rumination as yet another way to diffuse things and escape. I also found that the people who were truly good at this and helpful never approached it from a sense of negative judgment and superiority (those are just signs of one's insecurity I think) but because they were genuinely interested and actually understood me rather than misunderstood or projected their favorite ideas. I grew up with a father like that so it is easy for me to recognize when it is truly constructive, but I think one can learn it as well. I really think that therapy can lead people onto many false tracks and useless investigations if it is not approached with a critical attitude. But I think only the client can really lead that, Ts usually do not initiate scrutiny unless they become defensive for their own sake. You see, one reason for sharing uncomfortable things with the T is exactly to see how they respond. If the responses are not helpful, you can look for someone else already knowing what did not work.

I definitely had that issue with therapy-related stuff occupying my mind excessively. Many people on this forum experience a version they describe as attachment, for me it wasn't that, it was literally getting stuck in analysis paralysis, which I am very prone to by default and have always been. I often experienced it as very stimulating and gratifying - I like to dissect things and find patterns in everything, to understand how things related inside out, and for a while it felt like therapy was the perfect playground, doing it with someone else interested and apparently trained to do just what I like to do on my own as well! But it wasn't really helpful and did not solve anything for me, it was mostly just another introspective journey without substantial practical benefit.

What you described is very much how I tend to exacerbate my anxiety as well. My baseline anxiety is really not that bad but I can expand it and make it unbearable with avoidance and with unhealthy habits, which never actually work because I am not dissociative and those things never get out of my awareness, it is just like taking a pain pill that does not even work well and will wear off in a couple hours. If the strategies help in critical moments, only if temporarily, I think it is good. But eventually it is better to get to the roots rather than just medicating the symptoms, if possible. I think this is why Ts generally like to explore the past, because the roots are often there. But not always, sometimes they are just a physiological condition more than anything else that generates the thoughts and feelings, a brain that tend to be hyperactive and overstimulated. I think anxiety is often very much like that, especially generalized anxiety. Then we project it into all sorts of external things or try to manage it with actions and experiences that alleviate the anxiety in the moment, for a short while. It ultimately works much better to learn to tolerate it and not get paralyzed by it. I think many people who suffer with excessive rumination and a distractible mind can also benefit from medications, but those effects often don't last and then the meds need to be re-adjusted or changed.

I often experienced it as very stimulating and gratifying - I like to dissect things and find patterns in everything, to understand how things related inside out, and for a while it felt like therapy was the perfect playground, doing it with someone else interested and apparently trained to do just what I like to do on my own as well! - what I am enjoying most about therapy!

Thank you for you insight. I feel like I can talk to you for hours!

I often find this forum very stimulating as well in a similar way therapy was for me. Just much better because it’s not only one person but many and not as distracting/addictive I think a big part of the reason this is not as distracting is because it is not forced into a specific structure and time windows and because this does not have the complex interpersonal dynamic therapy involves (or only very lightly), mostly just discussion. Minimal challenge, no risk, no threats. My therapy remained on the same level mostly and if I were to go to therapy again, I would definitely push the Ts and myself much more.

[darkside8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I often find this forum very stimulating as well in a similar way therapy was for me. Just much better because it’s not only one person but many and not as distracting/addictive I think a big part of the reason this is not as distracting is because it is not forced into a specific structure and time windows and because this does not have the complex interpersonal dynamic therapy involves (or only very lightly), mostly just discussion. Minimal challenge, no risk, no threats. My therapy remained on the same level mostly and if I were to go to therapy again, I would definitely push the Ts and myself much more.

How is everything you say so on point?

Originally Posted by darkside8

How is everything you say so on point?

We probably have some similarities I hope your therapy will be more useful though than mine was, given that you are more on the starting side. These tendencies about the addiction and distraction is something I now would always tell a T right in the first session and ask them to keep an eye on it and push me a bit if they see I get into that pattern, onto all sorts of irrelevant tangents all over the map etc. Ask to push me back in line with my goals (this can only apply to you if you have specific goals though and willing to work on the blocks both in and outside of therapy). I actually did tell my Ts, including that I had a tendency to email too much and use that as distraction as well - my first T got totally confused and entangled himself, second T did not reinforce it but unfortunately never said anything I did was wrong or not in my best interest either. I wound be much more mindful not to let that happen now but, as I imagine, only I could lead that, many Ts tend to be too drawn into all the interesting but often useless tangents and investigations and don't care much about seeing practical benefit, or say it will take time. Of course, then we pay them longer...

[Rive1976]

If they were negative coping strategies I understand not wanting to share and if your not using them now it doesnt matter.

[darkside8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

We probably have some similarities I hope your therapy will be more useful though than mine was, given that you are more on the starting side. These tendencies about the addiction and distraction is something I now would always tell a T right in the first session and ask them to keep an eye on it and push me a bit if they see I get into that pattern, onto all sorts of irrelevant tangents all over the map etc. Ask to push me back in line with my goals (this can only apply to you if you have specific goals though and willing to work on the blocks both in and outside of therapy). I actually did tell my Ts, including that I had a tendency to email too much and use that as distraction as well - my first T got totally confused and entangled himself, second T did not reinforce it but unfortunately never said anything I did was wrong or not in my best interest either. I wound be much more mindful not to let that happen now but, as I imagine, only I could lead that, many Ts tend to be too drawn into all the interesting but often useless tangents and investigations and don't care much about seeing practical benefit, or say it will take time. Of course, then we pay them longer...

I was going to suggest perhaps giving it another go by sharing these thoughts during the initial contact phase and someway judging whether they're a fit through their response and level of thinking - I believe this is where the issue somewhat lies - we humans all think on different levels and it's about finding one that thinks, or is able to think, on yours. And one that is able to explore on this level without fearing stepping away from the standard, which more often than not is flawed. Only then are they able to identify and appropriately challenge the BS you and I get ourselves into because a person on the same level would have understood how much of an issue it really is. For every other therapist, discouragement will not occur, perhaps because it is a way to keep the client coming back for more, particularly one who is able to think on a level where at times they may know more than the therapist, and thus, the only thing bringing them back for more is therapy as a coping strategy.
However, your last point could be the unfortunate reality, making all of this effort pointless.

I will nonetheless take your advice and share this with my T this week. She appears to take my insights into great consideration. Curious to see where she goes with this..

Yes. do believe there are Ts who might not get hooked on this dynamic though - my last T at least did not with the emails. There is also something about the specific interpersonal combo IMO - I very much know what kinds of people are most likely to get at least somewhat blinded by the interactions with me if they are not keenly aware of this possibility and tendency, if they had not experienced it before etc. So I now would very consciously avoid that combo. For example, I am female and this most often happens with men or LBGTQ women that are older than me, curious and free spirited, at least somewhat introverted, high achievers with high standards, somewhat eccentric... Now I would rather choose a straight woman, not one that is very different from me in her thinking style and preferences but who would more likely not get distracted by the implicit, subtle sexual tension that is often present in my relationships as an unspoken undercurrent and that I tend to enjoy very much. Of course that will always involve a tendency of wanting to derive pleasure and please/impress the other person on both ends, especially if the involved parties are not aware of it (but even with awareness). I like these also because they can make some of the best work collaborations, mentor-mentee pairing, friendships, romantic relationships. But not so much when I want someone to see through me and challenge me constructively, not as competition or as a reaction fueled by insecurity either but with true confidence. I usually find that when a relationship is completely free of that dynamic, then the "calling me out on my BS" thing works much better. Of course, people who primarily want to impress and get their own pleasure out of it will be less inclined to risk conflict even if they have clear and accurate perceptions about what is going on. It is very tempting to just go with the flow and enjoy. My first T was actually better at the end in that sense because it turned out we had very little in common... but that became the other extreme, so little in common that we constantly misunderstood each-other and had very different, pretty incompatible values. So somewhere in between would be more ideal. You said that your T is asking you lots of questions - I would think that is a good approach even if she gets into uncomfortable zones with it? I liked when mine asked questions very much, they just never did enough.