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  #51  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 12:00 AM
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scorpiosis37 scorpiosis37 is offline
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Originally Posted by Topiarysurvivor View Post
Some things I would like to know - how many survivors of any type of exploitation have gone on to have therapy they saw as useful. I'd like to read more first person narratives by the therapists. I want to know if the period I had of relative strength for a year, then a complete crash based on a stressor is within the experience of other individuals. I'd like to see numbers on how many people filed complaints, how those complaints were settled, if people's lives were helped by filing complaints. I'd like to see more about the issues specific to GLBT ( forgive me, not meaning to leave anyone out) and therapy abuse. I'd like to know how many people were exploited in sessions vs in outside life.

I could go on and on.
I have not found any subsequent therapy to be helpful. I think one big reason for that is that no other T is willing to talk about or help me process the exploitation by ex-T. Another reason is that I think a lot of therapists use a cookie cutter approach that may work for those who struggle to understand their own emotions or need help with cognitive distortions, but are not helpful for those who don’t have those issues. I did not file a complaint, but two other clients of my T did and she lost her license. Then she attempted suicide. Then she failed to tell me she lost her license and continued to charge me for sessions for a few months. Then she told me she lost her license, but claimed she didn’t do what she was accused of, and then asked to be friends. I went with the friendship for 3 years, which was really abusive. The reason I never filed a complaint is because of what I saw go down with those who filed complaints. My T made up a story that she was sexually assaulted by the client she went to a bar and got drunk with. She then sued the client. Everyone in the community (a lesbian community in a place where we all know each other) has heard the stories on all sides and it’s a mess. I wanted no part of that. I do think the lines can get more blurry between a lesbian client and lesbian therapist. I did not have sex with my T, but the lines were sometimes blurry. She sat next to me on the couch and held me, she’s seen me in my swimsuit (and vice versa), we talk about sex and dating (she disclosed too), etc. Was that in the name of friendship or was it flirting? I can honestly say I don’t know. But my anger at my T is strictly for the unethical boundary violations she did under the assumption she was only acting platonically. She did enough damage as my “friend” that I don’t even need to add in anything that may (or may not) have been sexually charged.
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  #52  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 08:16 AM
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SalingerEsme SalingerEsme is offline
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Dr. Andrea Celenza does excellent work, though on explaining the why's about the perpetrators : Amazon.com: Sexual Boundary Violations: Therapeutic, Supervisory, and Academic Contexts (9780765708533): Andrea Celenza: Books
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  #53  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 08:22 AM
Echos Myron redux Echos Myron redux is offline
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Originally Posted by Topiarysurvivor View Post
Some things I would like to know - how many survivors of any type of exploitation have gone on to have therapy they saw as useful. I'd like to read more first person narratives by the therapists. I want to know if the period I had of relative strength for a year, then a complete crash based on a stressor is within the experience of other individuals. I'd like to see numbers on how many people filed complaints, how those complaints were settled, if people's lives were helped by filing complaints. I'd like to see more about the issues specific to GLBT ( forgive me, not meaning to leave anyone out) and therapy abuse. I'd like to know how many people were exploited in sessions vs in outside life.

I could go on and on.
I found a great therapist after my harmful experience. It took me a long time to trust him but it's been really positive. I know I'm very lucky and it's not always that easy to find a good therapist who knows how to help after a harmful experience.
  #54  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 11:05 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
Treating victims of therapist-patient sexual involvement

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1992-06283-001
Most libraries have electronic databases and might allow access to these journals. The more academic databases usually can be accessed through school affiliations, alumni associations or even community borrowing privileges offered by some libraries.
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  #55  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 11:22 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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The following viewpoint is my experience only.* I find recovery completely hinged on de-mystifying therapy and the therapist, demoting him, seeing him no wiser about life than anyone else. Nothing magical happens. They didn’t know what’s in my mind, what my family looks like, nor did they have special powers to “interpret” anything. The oracle showmanship primed me for the abuse to begin with. Since my subsequent therapists were unwilling to drop the mystification and veils of authority, they remained part of the problem.
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  #56  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
Dr. Andrea Celenza does excellent work, though on explaining the why's about the perpetrators : Amazon.com: Sexual Boundary Violations: Therapeutic, Supervisory, and Academic Contexts (9780765708533): Andrea Celenza: Books
Someone recommended me a therapist once who was trained by Andrea Celenze. I saw her once and was very disappointed. Sadly, she didn't have a clue of what a person with that kind of trauma is experiencing.
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  #57  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by missbella View Post
Most libraries have electronic databases and might allow access to these journals. The more academic databases usually can be accessed through school affiliations, alumni associations or even community borrowing privileges offered by some libraries.
Sometimes the author of the article or book will snailmail or email a copy of their article or a chapter from a book if you contact them and ask. I received a few articles from Ken Pope, Ph.D. and others that way.
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  #58  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 08:38 PM
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I just had a thought. Has anyone thought about writing to people like Ken Pope, Gary Shoener, Glenn Gabbard not to ask for a book, an article or any other information but to ask them about what is currently being done in terms of changing the psychotherapy training to make therapy induced trauma or trauma from therapy abuse a part of the official training curriculum? It's nice to have a few books on ethics and this specific issue written by them, but they don't change anything on the large scale. So, I'd want to know if they've ever started or partnered with any advocacy group that pushes for changes in professional training. Me think not.
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  #59  
Old Feb 15, 2019, 08:41 PM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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If there is an article someone really wants on an academic site I can see if i can find it via my uni library
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  #60  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 03:57 AM
Waterloo12345 Waterloo12345 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
I just had a thought. Has anyone thought about writing to people like Ken Pope, Gary Shoener, Glenn Gabbard not to ask for a book, an article or any other information but to ask them about what is currently being done in terms of changing the psychotherapy training to make therapy induced trauma or trauma from therapy abuse a part of the official training curriculum? It's nice to have a few books on ethics and this specific issue written by them, but they don't change anything on the large scale. So, I'd want to know if they've ever started or partnered with any advocacy group that pushes for changes in professional training. Me think not.
Is this what Dawn Deveraux is doing in the UK? I'm new to her (got her name from this board) so I can't vouch for her but from google she seems to be trying to get the training changed as well as helping those affected.
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  #61  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpiosis37 View Post
I have not found any subsequent therapy to be helpful. I think one big reason for that is that no other T is willing to talk about or help me process the exploitation by ex-T.
I wonder if this is because its sort of like the old' boys club like the say about doctors or lawyers? Not wanting to take another down so they tolerate all manner of abuses? Do you think your T was protecting her fellow therapists?
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  #62  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 10:01 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post

I wonder if this is because its sort of like the old' boys club like the say about doctors or lawyers? Not wanting to take another down so they tolerate all manner of abuses? Do you think your T was protecting her fellow therapists?
Bingo. That’s exactly what I experienced. They got all squirmy discussing a colleague’s misconduct or ineffectiveness. Then there’s the “protect the public” grievance process which I found a joke. A journalist told me infinitesimal number of these cases are found for the client.
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  #63  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 10:09 AM
missbella missbella is offline
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Originally Posted by Waterloo12345 View Post
Is this what Dawn Deveraux is doing in the UK? I'm new to her (got her name from this board) so I can't vouch for her but from google she seems to be trying to get the training changed as well as helping those affected.
Harmful therapy seemed to get more daylight in the UK with people like Yvonne Bates, Richard House and Colin Feltham, though I’ve no idea if there are new voices. As we’ve seen in almost predictable replication, the topic triggers apoplectic discomfort.
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  #64  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Waterloo12345 View Post
Is this what Dawn Deveraux is doing in the UK? I'm new to her (got her name from this board) so I can't vouch for her but from google she seems to be trying to get the training changed as well as helping those affected.
I got her name from this board several years ago, too. What I found then, and seems true still from the internet search I have done, is that her work is more oriented toward protecting the club and not protecting clients. Which isn't to say that it can't be helpful in the long run to help teach therapists how to avoid doing things that will result in clients from filing complaints about them. Just that her focus seems to be on the therapists, not helping clients.

Maybe there's something more current that someone else has found or has access to through data bases that I don't?

Also, I can't find a reference right now but I think I remember an article that she had experienced exploitation and/or abuse in therapy early on. So maybe she reasoned that the best way to help clients WAS to help therapists, like, in an airplane, putting the oxygen mask on your own face before you put it on your child's.

Last edited by here today; Feb 16, 2019 at 11:04 AM.
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  #65  
Old Feb 16, 2019, 12:28 PM
Waterloo12345 Waterloo12345 is offline
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Originally Posted by here today View Post
I got her name from this board several years ago, too. What I found then, and seems true still from the internet search I have done, is that her work is more oriented toward protecting the club and not protecting clients. Which isn't to say that it can't be helpful in the long run to help teach therapists how to avoid doing things that will result in clients from filing complaints about them. Just that her focus seems to be on the therapists, not helping clients.

Maybe there's something more current that someone else has found or has access to through data bases that I don't?

Also, I can't find a reference right now but I think I remember an article that she had experienced exploitation and/or abuse in therapy early on. So maybe she reasoned that the best way to help clients WAS to help therapists, like, in an airplane, putting the oxygen mask on your own face before you put it on your child's.
Interesting. I've only done a summary Google search and i did see as you saw it was oriented to training therapists as well as general education but I interpreted that through your plane example - to fix the system to stop people getting hurt.
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  #66  
Old Feb 21, 2019, 01:23 AM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
Once again, I will stress and underscore the word "formal" when I insist that emotional abuse can and does occur in therapy perfectly within the formal boundaries of what is considered a competent professional care.

When I show examples of how this can occur, we can all agree that the therapist's actions were emotionally abusive, but the issue is that the licensing boards, the professional ethics committees and the professional community as a whole do not see it as abuse. They see it as a therapist doing their job and a client demonstrating their lack of understanding that a therapist is simply doing their job, which, in their view, only confirms a client's mental disturbance, but in no way implies that a therapist did something wrong.

So what we see rightfully as abuse is not defined as such by the formal professional standards.

I think emotional abuse is at the core of all abuse, in that physical and sexual abuse usually comes only after the perpetrator has emotionally groomed the victim for some kind of dependency in them that will require loyalty and this almost always requires a trauma bond. Especially in this kind of relationship. I mean if you think about it many times the formal violations come very late in the game after much has happened thT can be explained away. The smart predator knows what tehy are doing bc plausible deniability is always needed until the victim is snared (I didn’t mean that! You misinterpreted me!) and emotional abuse is almost always plausibly denied to the victim and to the board if needed. Yet it is often the most damaging part of the experience when coming from therapist, lover, parent even if eventually sexual or physical abuse (the only abuse considered “real”) occurs.
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  #67  
Old Feb 21, 2019, 07:07 PM
Topiarysurvivor Topiarysurvivor is offline
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Originally Posted by blackocean View Post
I think emotional abuse is at the core of all abuse, in that physical and sexual abuse usually comes only after the perpetrator has emotionally groomed the victim for some kind of dependency in them that will require loyalty and this almost always requires a trauma bond. Especially in this kind of relationship. I mean if you think about it many times the formal violations come very late in the game after much has happened thT can be explained away. The smart predator knows what tehy are doing bc plausible deniability is always needed until the victim is snared (I didn’t mean that! You misinterpreted me!) and emotional abuse is almost always plausibly denied to the victim and to the board if needed. Yet it is often the most damaging part of the experience when coming from therapist, lover, parent even if eventually sexual or physical abuse (the only abuse considered “real”) occurs.
The trauma bond very much describes my experience as does your statement about the formal violations coming late in the game. It makes it very hard to sort out actual therapy experience from grooming and building dependency. There are many moments in therapy that felt "off" but didn't feel like part of the abuse until the whole story had played out. Shortest version of my story - I saw a therapist for 3 years without any identifiable boundary crossings. She coached me through leaving my husband, and through my first relationship with a woman. Now I know that she very much set the scene for my being free, then once I had broken up, she began the formal crossings - becoming part of a closed online group ( 30 members) of which I was a part, then creating a fake profile on Chemistry.com. She called me into her office one Saturday, equipped with a termination aggreement and a confession that she wanted to explore having a romantic relationship with me. I totally did not understand the risks, thought I could back out at any time. My daughter and I moved into her house about a year later. The situation became more and abusive for my daughter and I. I moved out after two years of living with her.
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  #68  
Old Feb 22, 2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
Once again, I will stress and underscore the word "formal" when I insist that emotional abuse can and does occur in therapy perfectly within the formal boundaries of what is considered a competent professional care.
Agree with this, and this is partly why I think the notion of therapy as a "safe space" is madness. Any relationship based on asymmetrical power dynamics leans toward abuse and exploitation by default, even if it's subtle. This is especially true when the relationship is isolated from all other people.
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  #69  
Old Feb 26, 2019, 02:20 PM
blackocean blackocean is offline
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apologies if this thesis has been posted already but it has a lot of data and such in it, though it is old (1996)

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/110866/1/W...rrett_1996.pdf
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