[Merope]

I came across this in a lecture, though it wasn't specifically about therapists. I guess in a way, it's a no brainer....of course you "need" your therapist. Why else would you go to therapy if you didn't need something from them?

But how about when that "need" is more relational, such as when you begin to need them as a child would need the guidance of a parent. Is that "allowed?" Generally speaking, do therapists welcome that sort of need, or do they shy away from it?

Just curious.

[Elio]

I think that depends on the modality of the therapist.

My therapist welcomes this kind of need in my therapy. I'm not sure if that's a blanketed welcome for her or if she welcomes it in my case because she feels that is what I need to process through my issues. To some degree, I also think it is client specific. I think some clients need to learn how to trust and need others; while other clients need to learn to trust and lean on themselves; and probably everything in between.

[DP_2017]

Yes but

Some therapists are not as ok with it... they will keep boundaries tight so the need doesn't grow too much

And... you should be aware of it yourself and just make sure it doesn't become a thing where it's the biggest need in your life, and therapy basically becomes your life. That isn't healthy.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Merope

I came across this in a lecture, though it wasn't specifically about therapists. I guess in a way, it's a no brainer....of course you "need" your therapist. Why else would you go to therapy if you didn't need something from them?

But how about when that "need" is more relational, such as when you begin to need them as a child would need the guidance of a parent. Is that "allowed?" Generally speaking, do therapists welcome that sort of need, or do they shy away from it?

Just curious.

the mental health system in america is set up in such a way that treatment providers must work to promote independence and self nurturing of one self and their problems. there is a set amount of sessions per year someone can have and at intervals (usually on a yearly or every 6 months) the treatment provider and client must review why they are in therapy, what the therapy goals are and whether those goals are being completed. this doesnt leave a lot of room for a client to get dependent upon their therapist as in needing them to act as if they are parenting the client.

that said there is certain therapy techniques that do allow a therapist to teach how to self nurture and parent one self sometimes by way of demonstrating the skills their self. But even these have strict guidelines for the treatment provider to follow so that the client does not mis- interpret and or become dependent on the therapist for their self nurturing.

my suggestion is talk with your treatment provider, they will tell you whether they are able to do mirroring and role playing and modeling self nurturing skills by example doing them with you during your therapy sessions. They will be able to explain to you rules for this and at what times they are willing to hold you, sooth you and such as a parent would during your therapy sessions and how you will have homework to learn to do these skills on your own, and at what point they will have to tell you no they can not do so during your therapy session.

[Taylor27]

My new therapist has already told me i can call her in between sessions. I wont ever abuse that because i know if i become too needy that wont be too healthy for me. So yes im allowed to call if i need to talk about something that cannot wait or if i am in a crisis and she is in the office. I am scared to break boundaries because my very first therapist really hurt me over this type of issue unfortantly it never got fully resolved

[Xynesthesia2]

I think many Ts more than welcome that sort of need but it can depend on the modality they practice and probably their personality. To me, if someone hires a professional to get help with something they cannot resolve on their own, it means they need the help. But relational need is not always like a child's for a parent, I personally never felt that way with my Ts or anyone after my 30's and even then, as an adult, never felt that any of my needs were child-like. More than wanting a mentor or advisor, maybe a role model sometimes... but not a parent figure. Regardless, I think that need is okay, it is just that a therapist cannot really parent an adult client for many reasons IMO in a form that it'll be provided unconditionally and truly "as needed", and when clients expect that, it often leads to frustration. The way I can see a T is more like a consultant and I am perfectly okay with needing expert help sometimes if there really is something they can provide.

[toomanycats]

It's allowed in my therapy. If it wasn't, I wouldn't be with this therapist.

[Rive.]

I think you are allowed to need whatever you feel in any relationship. The problem resides in the expectation that other people (T in your case) have to satisfy it. They don't.

It is difficult to speculate how Ts generally welcome that relational need as it depends on how they practise. I would check this out with your particular therapist if it would put your mind at rest.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

the mental health system in america is set up in such a way that treatment providers must work to promote independence and self nurturing of one self and their problems. there is a set amount of sessions per year someone can have and at intervals (usually on a yearly or every 6 months) the treatment provider and client must review why they are in therapy, what the therapy goals are and whether those goals are being completed.

This is not true across the board in the u.s. = The two I hired did not work in this fashion. It may be true with some clinics or agencies or some insurance -but it is not accurate as a blanket statement for everyone in the united states.

The three I hired (one when I was in my 20s and the two I hired in my late 40's) all tried to get me to depend on them more. A common theme of all 3 was that they wanted me to rely on them (I have no idea why I would have wanted to do that -but nonetheless-they did encourage it). I thought such an idea was madness.

[starfishing]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

the mental health system in america is set up in such a way that treatment providers must work to promote independence and self nurturing of one self and their problems. there is a set amount of sessions per year someone can have and at intervals (usually on a yearly or every 6 months) the treatment provider and client must review why they are in therapy, what the therapy goals are and whether those goals are being completed.

What stopdog said--this isn't true across the US mental health system. Visit limits dictated by insurance are actually illegal in many situations in the US because of mental health parity laws. And there's no obligation to discuss goals. Personally, my therapist and I never discuss "goals" in the structured way you're describing. I would probably fire any therapist who did.

As for whether "need" is allowed... IMO feelings of need should always be allowed in therapy. Whether those needs are realistically ones the therapist can meet is a different story, but there should always be room to discuss the clients needs and wants and how they feel about them.

[magicalprince]

Would it make a difference even if someone somewhere decided it wasn't allowed?

Do people choose what they need and don't need?

[Merope]

Thank you all.

You’re right, it doesn’t make a difference if it’s “allowed” or not allowed...I guess “needs” arise in a similar way to how feelings arise...they just happen.

I’m not looking for my T to gratify these needs or even meet them...the fact that he accepts and holds them is enough for me. I guess it’s like allowing yourself to feel vulnerable so that you reach a new level of genuine connection.

[precaryous]

Previous T said, “Ask for what you need.” I didn’t always get it but, for the most part, I did. Even so, she went above and beyond what I expected.

Current T seems to encourage discussing needs that come up ‘as a child would.’ Maybe I’m just more open examining this area. I don’t think it would have come up at all if I hadn’t brought it up.

I have also had previous therapists who wouldn’t have welcomed this at all.

[LonesomeTonight]

Mine seemed to kind of push back against my needing him at first. But now he understands it more and where it's coming from, and he's become more comfortable with it. And, as a result, he generally seems willing to give me what I need. At the same time, he's also directing me toward finding other ways to cope, both on my own and using people in my outside life. He says his goal is a therapist is to work himself out of a job.

[Omers]

My T is hopeful that in time I will trust him enough to allow myself to need him emotionally in ways I will not now. I am so used to being an independent loaner he desperately wants me to be able to connect with him, he wants that opportunity to be a repairitive relationship, to be the “good enough therapist” where my parents could not meet my needs. He struggles with how dig in I am and how hard it is to connect with me.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Merope

I guess in a way, it's a no brainer....of course you "need" your therapist. Why else would you go to therapy if you didn't need something from them?

This post has got me thinking. I know it’s probably my own personal issue, but in my case, I’m not sure I actually “need” anything from my therapist. I’d like his perspective and I’d like to see if there’s anything I can learn from him which is why I hired him and I guess why I’ve stayed with him. The irony is that one of the things I have to learn might be about having needs. In my case, I haven’t asked for much from him. I did ask him to respond to emails and he said no which was a bummer and has me feeling cautious about asking for things. I’ve also asked about his pets and learned that he won’t easily disclose personal information even if it seems like a small mundane thing. So, bottom line is that I suppose it’s ok to have needs or wants or requests but they may not be met. Clear as mud!

[stopdog]

I did not need a therapist either. I chose to try to see if therapy could help with something (it didn't) but need didn't really enter into it for me

[starfishing]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

This post has got me thinking. I know it’s probably my own personal issue, but in my case, I’m not sure I actually “need” anything from my therapist. I’d like his perspective and I’d like to see if there’s anything so can learn from him which is why I hired him and I guess why I’ve stayed with him. The irony is that one of the things I have to learn might be about having needs. In my case, I haven’t asked for much from him. I did ask him to respond to emails and he said no which was a bummer and has me feeling cautious about asking for things. I’ve also asked about his pets and learned that he won’t easily disclose personal information even if it seems like a small mundane thing. So, bottom line is that I suppose it’s ok to have needs or wants or requests but they may not be met. Clear as mud!

Interesting! I like how you described it. I go back and forth on this, but right now I do feel like I need things from my therapist. I need him to be trustworthy and reliable, to be present and attentive during our sessions, to care about my wellbeing, to be knowledgeable about my needs, to be insightful and deliberate in what he says and asks, and I need to know that he and I are working towards the same things in my therapy. In some ways these are pretty basic job requirements, in others they're pretty demanding. Sometimes simultaneously both.

Some of these needs are "within therapy" needs, where it's more about what I require in order to engage in therapy. Some are just needs, that I could meet elsewhere too or instead. In some cases I do also meet those needs elsewhere. The general needs that I don't meet elsewhere tend to point to key things I'm working on in therapy, so it's interesting to think about what categories various things fall into.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by starfishing

Interesting! I like how you described it. I go back and forth on this, but right now I do feel like I need things from my therapist. I need him to be trustworthy and reliable, to be present and attentive during our sessions, to care about my wellbeing, to be knowledgeable about my needs, to be insightful and deliberate in what he says and asks, and I need to know that he and I are working towards the same things in my therapy. In some ways these are pretty basic job requirements, in others they're pretty demanding. Sometimes simultaneously both.

Some of these needs are "within therapy" needs, where it's more about what I require in order to engage in therapy. Some are just needs, that I could meet elsewhere too or instead. In some cases I do also meet those needs elsewhere. The general needs that I don't meet elsewhere tend to point to key things I'm working on in therapy, so it's interesting to think about what categories various things fall into.

Well, maybe it’s about semantics and how you define the word “needs” because I want the things you describe too. Consistency, reliability, trustworthiness and all the things you describe are essential and I suppose I would not have stayed with him without those things. When we start talking about emotional needs, I’m not sure that I “need” anything from him although there are things that would be nice, but not necessary if that makes any sense. I can certainly fulfill some needs elsewhere and I’m just not sure how to use my therapist for other “needs.” I’m still trying to figure that part out. I guess this is sort of what the OP was asking.

[starfishing]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

Well, maybe it’s about semantics and how you define the word “needs” because I want the things you describe too. Consistency, reliability, trustworthiness and all the things you describe are essential and I suppose I would not have stayed with him without those things. When we start talking about emotional needs, I’m not sure that I “need” anything from him although there are things that would be nice, but not necessary if that makes any sense. I can certainly fulfill some needs elsewhere and I’m just not sure how to use my therapist for other “needs.” I’m still trying to figure that part out. I guess this is sort of what the OP was asking.

Well, for what it's worth I initially wrote that list out as wants... And then realized that for me an (as you put it) "essential" want is another way of saying need. Allowing myself to need my therapist in a broader sense is at most a complicated work in progress for me, not a straightforward situation at all. But over time I've come to feel a bit more clearly that I have some needs I've been ignoring that are now showing up in therapy in various ways.

[Merope]

Originally Posted by starfishing

But over time I've come to feel a bit more clearly that I have some needs I've been ignoring that are now showing up in therapy in various ways.

This is how I feel as well. Seems like therapy unearthed some things I wasn’t aware of and now I have “needs” from him. I wish I could write a list, but I’m not actually sure what my needs are. Definitely nothing outside what is considered therapeutically acceptable, although sometimes i “need” to feel connected to him outside sessions, or know certain personal things about him, just so I can place him in the world and feel like he exists beyond our allocated time. Another need I have is to let him know about these needs. I “need” him to accept this neediness so that I don’t end up feeling that needing things from a human being with whom you have some sort of close relationship is intrinsically wrong and must be dealt with.

[Oxolyric]

This is an interesting thread-I wonder if UK and US interpret “need” differently -not majorly but in a nuanced way?
I can say that I definitely didn’t need (or want) a lot of what was given but did I get what I needed-I’ve no idea what I really needed -guess that’s why I employed a psychologist

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

the mental health system in america is set up in such a way that treatment providers must work to promote independence and self nurturing of one self and their problems. there is a set amount of sessions per year someone can have and at intervals (usually on a yearly or every 6 months) the treatment provider and client must review why they are in therapy, what the therapy goals are and whether those goals are being completed. this doesnt leave a lot of room for a client to get dependent upon their therapist as in needing them to act as if they are parenting the client.

that said there is certain therapy techniques that do allow a therapist to teach how to self nurture and parent one self sometimes by way of demonstrating the skills their self. But even these have strict guidelines for the treatment provider to follow so that the client does not mis- interpret and or become dependent on the therapist for their self nurturing.

my suggestion is talk with your treatment provider, they will tell you whether they are able to do mirroring and role playing and modeling self nurturing skills by example doing them with you during your therapy sessions. They will be able to explain to you rules for this and at what times they are willing to hold you, sooth you and such as a parent would during your therapy sessions and how you will have homework to learn to do these skills on your own, and at what point they will have to tell you no they can not do so during your therapy session.

That’s incorrect. The system you described might be true for some therapists or some mental health clinics or some insurance providers. It’s not how it works with every therapist and every clinic and every insurance plan (if one is using insurance for it, not everyone does).

[divine1966]

My t doesn’t foster dependence or need, the one I saw about 15 years ago didn’t either. I assume it’s allowed, why wouldn’t it, it’s just not something I want or therapist encourages

[SalingerEsme]

I relate with this. My T set about identifying and dismantling defenses with me, and then we spent two years working hard on eliminating extreme dissociation and learning new ways. I struggle with standing on my own two feet right after session, if we talk about difficult material. My old defenses had much more efficacy than my new "coping" skills, and I almost feel betrayed to be sent out to the streets after a degree of intimacy and self-revelation of which I am uncertain, and afterwards frightened on some superstitious level. The presence of my T, and his blue eyes eye contact unceasing , his way of asking me to try and trust him , help me take risks with topics, but I almost have a therapy hangover afterwards and feel like I need more support. My T is strict and boundaried, well trained, and I suspect he has a loving heart. However, things like extra sessions etc are not allowed. He is way too busy and doesnt believe in it. Anyway I see him 2x a week, so more probably wouldnt be good. I end of experiencing "needs" as psychic pain. He consistently asks me to attribute this back to my childhood experience of csa, which I understand is legitimate but feel like deflection in the moment. Therapy has revealed needs I formerly addressed within a self-contained system, and my T witnesses that but doesnt try to fulfill them. My BF and good friends dont have the expertise and experience my T brings into play, so I dont confront them with the degree of anguish I feel . It is a hard problem, and sometimes I resent my T and other times respect him. He is incredibly reliable and there/present during our time, and then he is gone.