A Former (Hurt) Client Thinking of Becoming a Therapist...

So until recently, I've been in therapy for about the past five years, seeing about 11 individual therapists and being in numerous groups (including inpatient/residential settings). As I talked about in another post ("This Is My Story, Harmed by Psychotherapy"), I was traumatized by one therapy experience. It was the most painful thing I've ever experienced (I've been through severe anorexia and all the **** that comes with "Borderline Personality Disorder," along with several other diagnoses, and the trauma from this therapy experience beats all of that for me). I did EMDR therapy after that bad experience, and it helped me beyond belief. I am in such a better place now (not that it totally erased what happened; a bitter taste is still left in my mouth, but I'm not in near-constant agony every day like I once was... things are immensely better because of EMDR).

Anyway, the study of psychology has fascinated me since high school (AP Psych anyone?), and I ended up majoring in Psychology in college, so now I have a BS in Psychology. I want to go to grad school, but I'm conflicted because on one hand I truly find myself interested in different theories and I find myself reading about psychology for pleasure (and I generally hate reading, so...), but on the other hand, I know how much this profession/field/system has hurt me. And I know from reading others' posts on this forum that others have been harmed beyond belief by psychotherapy as well. Yet I also know it has helped many people, myself included. If/when I do go to grad school, it's likely going to be for a counseling program, a clinical psychology program, or a social work program... essentially something that would allow me to become licensed to practice as a mental health professional. But I'm scared... I don't want to hurt people. I would never do it intentionally of course, but I know what T8 did to me was not intentional either... yet she caused me so much harm. I was suicidal from unintentional harm by a therapist. I don't ever want to accidentally do that to someone, and being a mental health professional would give me that power I believe. Additionally, I just have a lot of more general ethical concerns with the field/system. I think the DSM-V is a mess, and I'm not sure about how I feel about being in a position where I may have to diagnose someone using this shitshow of a book just for insurance purposes. I don't even want to have to buy a copy of it for a grad school program. I don't want to support the APA. I don't want to be part of such a flawed system if it means that I am contributing to those flaws. I've seen several people post on these forums that they believe the system cannot be reformed from within. I want to believe that is not true but I just don't know. So I am left with these questions...

Is it possible to be a part of this field in a truly ethical way, and if so, what does that entail?

Which route would be best for me if I do decide to pursue this career (LMFT, LMHC, LPCC, psychologist, etc)?

If I keep my focus mainly on more holistic, trauma-informed therapies such as EMDR, somatic experiencing, neurofeedback, etc... I have a big interest in somatic therapies... **** the CBT and all that jazz), would I be maintaining a more ethical practice (assuming other more obvious ethical practices are used)?

What if I went for a PhD or PsyD and focused more on research instead of actually practicing any kind of psychotherapy (although I know most programs would require that component as well)?

I am so interested in things like EMDR, somatic experiencing, neurofeedback, IFS, and the like after reading The Body Keeps the Score and after having a much more positive experience with EMDR. I wasn't ever a hugely academic person in high school, but now I find myself so immersed in literature about somatic therapies, trauma-informed therapies, things like Polyvagal Theory, developmental trauma, C-PTSD, etc... I have never been so passionate about something, and I would love to be a student again (never thought I would say that, but alas...). But I just want it to be ethical and I want to feel good about what I'm doing. So I'm looking for other people's input on this... what are your thoughts? Whether you are someone who has been harmed by psychotherapy, or you went to grad school for psychology and loved it, hated it, whatever... I'm interested in what you have to say. Is there a way to do this ethically? I hope so, because I really do want to formally study this and be able to apply it and help people. I just don't want to hurt people, even inadvertently. I do believe that psychotherapy can change a person's life for the better, but I also know that it can do the opposite. I want to be part of the former (changing people's lives for the better, if that's what they want), so I'm just wondering if this is the route for me to do that... Maybe there are other ways (I've considered things like movement therapy, equine therapy, etc... thoughts?).

Anyway, if anyone has any insights as to how I might follow this passion of mine while still feeling like I am not going against my values, I would love to hear what you have to say. I have looked into a few programs a little bit, and I'm leaning more towards places like Pacifica Graduate Institute, JFK University, California Institute of Integral Studies, Lesley University, Alliant University, and Antioch University (all private schools.. yikes on the wallet, but these are places that emphasize somatic studies). (I live in Los Angeles currently, but willing to relocate). So if anyone here happens to have experience with those by any chance, please also let me know about that experience. Or if you have any other programs that come to mind that you feel are ethical...

Other random facts, in case anyone wishes to comment on these or take them into consideration:

- Also have some interest in how trauma affects the body and can lead to things like autoimmune disorders... maybe there's a similar field I can go into regarding things like this?

- I don't see myself having a private practice. I think I would rather prefer to work in group settings, on a college campus as a counselor, or possibly in a residential setting? I know when I was in inpatient care, we had a psychodrama specialist therapist... that was cool. He was cool. Also had equine (I love horses and used to ride a bit), art, and music therapists... also interesting.

- Love Polyvagal theory and can see my future work (if I do go into the field) being heavily based around this theory.

Any input is welcome. Thanks in advance!

In any profession, particularly in professions that are "helping" professions, there are going to be instances of good and bad because, by nature, these professions work with people on a very personal level when people are often very vulnerable whether it be age, health, trauma, etc.

I'm a teacher. I have a friend who was an excellent teacher but she got so disenchanted due to educational politics,etc., that she left the profession. The shame is that no more students are being blessed by her gift for teaching. I wish she would have stayed and persevered despite how political and unsupported teachers often are. I choose to stay, despite all the administrative b.s. I choose to stay because I know I am there for those kids. Yes, I get frustrated, fight bouts of low morale, get angry with politicians and administrators who don't really know what goes on in a classroom, but I take a deep breath and turn around and see my kids. That's why I teach and will teach until I retire.

I hope you can trust your own abilities, your own dedication to helping others, your own experience that will serve as a great reminder of what not to do, and pursue a profession that seems to be calling to your interests.

On music therapy:
If you have a musical background, music therapy is one way to work with clients that you could pursue. My son's university is one of the few music therapy programs in our state and he considered it as an option so I know some about it. It is NOT for the faint of heart. You are expected to know the technical aspects of music theory, composition, instrumentation as a music major (you have to be skilled on at least one instrument), etc., plus the course load for the psychology load, and most music therapists need a doctorate anymore.

I am not as familiar with other variations of ways to use your psychology background. I hope you will find the direction that works for you.

I have had several bad T’s and now one awesome T. I have my BA in psychology and started my masters. Personally, I found the training programs very traumatizing and you have to pretend to buy into what ever your school thinks is best until you are out. Depending on what state you are in licensure is different as is the level of supervision. Personall, after my experience, I would not try it again. I found training programs to be especially bruital if they find you have a mental health history. Just my experience.

in all honestly, the Ts that i have the most respect for are the ones who fully understand complex trauma, how it effects the body, and know how best to treat those effects with the body centered therapies. unfortunately, there are not enough of them in this industry. i don't have much respect for the Ts who go out to a weekend training course or complete an online course just so they can add the right buzz words to their Psychology Today profile to attract more clients or charge higher fees. i reckon those Ts, along with the ones who haven't fully dealt with their own sh#t, are the ones actually causing the most damage and harm and clients with truama histories should avoid.

from what you shared, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and the passion to do what you feel is best after your own experiences. because of this, i reckon you already are miles ahead of many of your peers if you were to pursue a career in this industry.

That was beautifully put and reassuring. Thank you for sharing!

Thanks for your input. Hard to hear that you found it traumatizing, but I appreciate your honesty in your experience. I definitely think that picking the best school for myself will be extremely important, if I do decide to go that route.

Thank you. Very reassuring

That sounds awesome! I’m excited about your future, your commitment to ethics, and your love of trauma-informed somatic work.

I have a Ph.D. in psychology from a large public university. I would NOT recommend getting a Ph.D. given your interests. Although I’m also fascinated by polyvagal theory, it’s not exactly empirically supported and you won’t get to learn about it in a PhD program. Instead I would recommend getting a masters in counseling or social work, then doing additional training to get your somatic experiencing certification. Also go to workshops and seminars on healing through the vagal nerve. There’s actually one coming up next month in Los Angeles!
I would NOT recommend a pricy private for-profit college. They are money pits of doom. Many don’t properly prepare you for licensure, even if they are considered APA accredited programs of study. Even though the APA sucks in a variety of ways, you need to complete your degree from an accredited program to successfully work in the US. The for-profit programs are also generally poor quality. My work has NEVER hired an applicant with a degree from one of these places. The degrees are kinda thought of as a joke, and the resumés of the applicants just highlight the lack of preparation and experiences they’ve received compared to other applicants.

My current T has a PhD in clinical psychology from a large public university. She didn’t like grad school. She got her SEP certification afterwards and goes to lots of workshops about healing trauma, somatic stuff, and vagal nerve techniques. I’m lucky to have such an educated provider. Another T in the office got her M.Ed. in counseling, is certified in EMDR, and is a current student in somatic experiencing. That seems like a less torturous route.

Ethics concerns are everywhere, though. In research, funding and publications typically are biased towards popular topics, and statistical tests can sometimes be tweaked to show certain outcomes. In holistic treatments: is it ethical to use procedures that are only based on anecdotal evidence and pseudoscience? Also why do the holistic trainings and treatments cost so much money? Someone somewhere is profiting from others’ trauma... These are just some of my thoughts to take or leave.

I predict that the study of the connection between the mind and body will explode in a good way in the next 15 years. The connections between the vagal nerve, autoimmune disorders, trauma, physical health, autism, cytokines, sickness behavior, depression, motivation, multiple sclerosis, social engagement, etc. are amazing. If you want to become a researcher, look into a field called psychoneuroimmunology. You might just love it!

There is no way you can ensure you never hurt someone. It sounds to me like your fear on this topic might make you useless as a therapist - or worse, bring about the very thing which you fear - inadvertently hurting somebody.

As for the idea about focusing on research rather than client care... It sounds like you have very strong opinions on right/wrong modalities. I'm not saying having an opinion is wrong (I also don't care for CBT), but to be a good researcher you have to be more objective than it sounds like you might be able to be on this topic. I could be wrong. I'm just going off of your enthusiasm for EMDR and hatred of CBT. How would it make you feel if you had to work on CBT studies, as they are more common than any other type, in grad school or when you are a junior researcher (or whatever you would call it)? It's not like there are constantly a ton of studies going on of other modalities, unfortunately - so you would be lucky if you managed to get in on a team studying one of your areas of interest. Do you think your dislike of CBT would influence your work? And the same question for EMDR or one of the other areas you expressed a positive interest or experience with - do you think those could unduly influence you if you worked in a research capacity? Would you be willing to relocate to live wherever the studies take place? I have looked into participating in studies (as a client) before, but there were never any near me - and I don't live in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, just a few things to think about. I wouldn't become a therapist if you think you'll be constantly questioning and doubting yourself. That would be miserable for you and also make you pretty ineffective probably. If you want to pursue research, just make sure your passion is harnessed appropriately and doesn't impair your ability to think objectively.

I am currently a student (not in this or a related field) and I honestly can't wait to escape. Not sure anything could possess me to return to this life of penury if I had escaped it. I preferred working a 40-50 hr workweek much better. But that's me.

ETA: Also, I think that while doing research sounds exciting, it might not actually feel like it if you were involved. Actually, I am talking about myself here, because I think it would be extremely boring. Research involves so many stages and is such a long, drawn out, laborious process that I feel like pulling my hair out just thinking about it. Months or years. Then more months and months analyzing the data and months and months writing a report of the findings and submitting them for publication. Ugh. Academia is not for me.

I think to be a part of this field in a truly ethical way would entail being brutally, unflinching honest about the damage people in this field have done to people who have come to them for help, and the ways in which the structure of the profession, the training methods, theories and their inadequacies, and the ethics and complaint processes, hide and even promote what is happening and will continue to happen. If you can do that, then maybe go for it. If not, I think you're fooling yourself, doing what you want in spite of the ethics, or both.

It is not psychology or the profession that is flawed. It is due to (some of) the individuals practising. This is true for any profession - there are inevitably bad apples in every walk of life.

Going into the field doesn't mean you will be part of the 'dark side'. That depends on you, the individual. If you are aware, ethical, own your behaviour / take personal responsibility and remain kind and compassionate - this is what ultimately matters.

Even if you do mess up, acknowledging your responsibility rather than denial or blaming the client will make a difference. It would have to be a monumental screw-up (totally unaware, ego trip, not caring about one's client etc.) for you to traumatise a client..


As to what to 'specialise' in, that really depends on what you are interested in or passionate about. Don't let bad examples deter you. Use these instead, to ensure you know what not to do or how not to be.

Ahh, thank you so much for this. I really appreciate your perspective and the input of someone who has a PhD in the field. I hadn’t considered some of the things you mentioned, but I will definitely keep them in mind now. Also will be looking more into psychoneuroimmunology — I had heard of it just briefly before and it got my attention, but then it sort of fell to the wayside. So thank you for the reminder! I think you are right that ethical issues can and do arise in every part of this field... and probably in most other fields too. Maybe it’s just about doing the best that I can as an individual by staying informed of ethical concerns and holding myself accountable when necessary.

Thank you for your input! Definitely some things to consider.

Thank you, here today.

Thank you for your input!

I have met quite a few people who considered becoming a therapist as a second career at midlife, often after experiencing serious mental health issues and recovery. You don't mention your age and current profession but the following is the advice I usually give people when they bring up similar things. It is great that you have so much interest and enthusiasm and perhaps you would become a truly outstanding therapist, but I would consider practical elements before making a decision/commitment and they will contribute a lot to how fulfilled you would feel with the choice. There is a lot of (usually quite expensive) training going into becoming a licensed therapist and it can be quite competitive. It also won't earn you very much money during those years and perhaps even later if you don't want to have a private practice. Depending on the location, you might compete for jobs with people who went into it immediately at the beginning of their education and career and are already much more advanced at your age (unless you are quite young). There is also the element that it might not end up being as rewarding a career as you imagine now - depending on the specific mental health concerns you would be interested in, it may not be packed with successes for you as someone helping people to recover. If you can do it more because it interests you regardless of outcome, you might turn out happier more consistently and not become jaded. Also, especially if you want to work for organizations rather than becoming independent, you will inevitably deal with a lot of the BS of the system and others in the profession and might have to face a lot of antagonism and even ill will if you openly want to think/practice differently. I personally believe thinking that you can be above all that by the virtue of your own morals and conduct is a bit naive, even for a private practitioner.

I have a PhD in biology and in the last 10 years have been doing mental health-related research in academia, meeting and working with lots of therapists and psychiatrists. Many of them split their time between their clinical practices and research, which is absolutely doable and many people like it a lot, but can be challenging and demanding. If you see yourself as someone doing decent research in the future, I would probably get into a clinical psychology program as it tends to be more science-heavy and you can build connections more easily IMO and you get to learn more about the neuroscience aspects of mental health, which are important to know in this era if you want to be effective, especially if you are interested in stuff that is more brain/body-based. There is ample room for doing research related to trauma and early life experiences - this is also an area where I do some of my work and it can be super interesting as we actually get to know why those experiences can be so powerful and generate long-term, often life-long struggles, why it is so difficult to heal etc. I ended up doing most of my research in an area that I personally experienced and recovered from and all the knowledge helps me a lot with my personal journey as well still, knowing my tendencies and predispositions. I can also use my personal experiences to guide my research and the work is much more inspiring for me than other areas I worked on before, which had nothing/little to do with my own life. This subjectively-driven focus is very common in clinicians as well.

A few years ago I also considered training to become a T but rejected the idea in part for the practical considerations I mentioned above and because I figured I don't have the right personality for it - not so much of a helper kind of person and I get easily frustrated with persistent stuckness,I am also much more technical than interpersonal, likely would not have the patience. I find education and mentoring much much more suitable and fulfilling and it satisfies my drive to help people in ways I know I am competent. I think it was the right decision for me especially given how critical and skeptical I became about therapy with time and experience, but I get to interact with clinicians a lot and that can be fun and productive. So there are definitely different ways of satisfying the motive to do useful things in mental health. I also do some clinically-oriented research in collaborations that have elements of therapy or developing treatments/tools for it. If you have an interest in EMDR, that could be an exciting area for research as it is definitely quite organic and there is so little understood about how it works. Could combine interests in trauma and the science of memory processes nicely.

I have also come across some people (including on this forum) who became therapists largely or partly driven by the hurt and trauma they experienced as clients in the past. One important factor there, IMO, is to be able to overcome the past adverse effects enough be think/practice in a realistic manner and have an ability to see things from many angles. Not to get carried away with some simplistic, subjective (usually not quite correct) perception that one is better than everyone else and understands everything better, then use traumatized people to reinforce and validate self-importance and anger.

Neuroimmunology. It is a very hot, rapidly developing area these days, both in research and the clinic. I have many colleagues who work on this field and there is certainly a lot to be done.

Thank you. I read both your posts here and I value the input very much. For reference, I am 24 years old, graduated undergrad last year, and have recently started a job as a behavior therapist. I work one-on-one in schools with (elementary) students who have disabilities. Essentially my job is to implement behavior modification strategies (not developed by me, but by my supervisor) with these children in order to help them be successful and included in a typical school setting. It's certainly challenging, but I am learning a lot from this experience and it feels valuable to me -- the children teach me a lot and I'm always trying to improve myself so that I may be more helpful for them. I've learned a lot about patience and recognizing progress in seemingly small accomplishments and to feel rewarded by those things.

I will definitely be looking more into neuroimmunology. Another user mentioned psychoneuroimmunology as well. Thanks again for your thoughts!

I was semi-traumatized by a well-meaning run-of-the-mill therapist. Therapists are not the problem. Therapy is the problem.

Most therapists appear to be unaware, and/or on an ego trip (or have insatiable need to be needed). But they are probably largely benign in real life. It's when you give them the power to play god in a closed room with wounded people that problems arise. Lot comes down to context.

I'd like to see people personally harmed by therapy who want to be in the mental health field think of ways to support the therapy system's casualties. And not with the usual semi-predatory psychotherapy approach wherein the victim is blamed and gaslighted and fed transference drivel and then exploited long-term for profit, etc.

I agree.

The results of the classic Milgram experiment come to mind, the "power to play god in a closed room". Even therapists who sexually exploit their clients probably don't do it that often, if at all, with people who are not in a closed therapy room with them.

It’s not what the experiment was about. Not playing G-d in a privacy of the room. It was about humans’ tendency to be obedient and follow authorities under certain circumstances. It sadly explains how genocides and such make possible. Nothing to do with people doing things in private versus in the open.

People who exploit others sexually or otherwise usually do it behind closed doors or at least with no witnesses, therapists or not. Your comparison with the experiment would be relevant if therapists sexually exploit clients because they were ordered to do so by their supervisors

Being fairly benign and appearing normal in every day life is not uncommon in cases of all kind of harmful behaviors and criminal activities. Even serial killers often have normal daily life and are often loving fathers and husbands and they certainly don’t go around killing people in the open.

Part of that experiment was doing as one was told to another human being (the participants thought) in the privacy of the room. Under the instructions of the authority, yes. The similarity with therapy, which I left out of what I said, is the authority which comes from therapists' role, their license, and perhaps their training, which are given -- authorized? -- to them by society, by social context.

Not a one-to-one analogy for sure. But Bud's quote did bring that experiment to my mind.

The Stanford prison experiment is another one about the effect of social context. Not a lot of similarity with therapy, maybe, but still illustrates the effect that context can have.

I see what you are saying. I just don’t see in what way therapist’s license and training authorize causing harm. Society authorizes therapists to provide therapy, not whatever other things.

By this logic teaching license authorizes teachers to molest students and nursing license authorizes abuse of patients. In every profession people have an opportunity to mistreat and abuse. Especially helping type professions. It doesn’t mean profession itself is any way authorizing mistreatment of anyone.

Yes, It's in the one-on-one situations in the consulting room that the therapist's presumed authority might --in my experience, often does --become a detrimental factor. Though the authority in group therapy, too can be detrimental.

That then gets into the perhaps more general questions about power imbalance, etc., in therapy.

I think It's likely that reducing harm in therapy may come more from looking at the potential for harm that the structure sets up, and changing that, rather than focusing on individual therapist misbehavior. Though certainly in some cases we've heard about on this forum therapist misbehavior has been gross and inexcusable and probably not the effect of context, although the context may have contributed to it happening.

I understand your point but don’t agree with the premise. I see it as any set up and context creates potential for abuse. I don’t see how set up could be changed either (cameras in the room? more supervision?) and why.

Actually the one thing I do agree that needs to be changed is endless therapy with no goal and no results as it’s potentially creating an issue. I see even on this forum how people go to therapy forever and nothing gets accomplished or improved and main reason for them to keep going is being sexually or romantically attached to a therapist who is either clueless or is messed up and enjoys the set up hence potentially harms said client.

I think if a client pays out of their pocket it’s fine but if state (and taxpayers) pays for it I see this endless and goalless therapy (often wrapped up in romantic attachments) as an issue. As a taxpayer Id rather not pay for people to indulge in such things. So I’d probably want to change how therapy and it’s success is evaluated, how often etc But that’s not topic of this thread so I digress