[vander512]

My therapist is great. I really like the effort she puts into our sessions. I like how she remembers things I have said previously. She doesn't take notes in session, but I am sure that she writes things down afterwards. She remembers things a previously said a while back.

My therapist is very expressive. I am just the opposite. I tend to be very blunted. Sometimes my therapist cries. I feel bad that she does this. She is very supportive of me. I wish I could be supportive of her.

I wish she would let me do something to comfort her. Like rub her shoulders. I think it would be therapeutic for me. In the sense that I am able to care for someone else. I understand boundaries. It isn't anything inappropriate I just want to make her feel better.

Once after a difficult session she jumped up and gave me a hug as I was leaving. It was a really nice gesture.

[SlumberKitty]

I can totally understand wanting to, but I don't think it's a good idea. I think it could lead to boundary crossings. Maybe give your T a nice card or something to let her know how much you appreciate her. Not a gift because some T's don't do gifts, but I've never had a T turn down a card. HUGS Kit

[susannahsays]

I understand the impulse, but therapy is not about taking care of your therapist. Do you often find yourself caretaking others? Is that the role you feel most comfortable in? I think rubbing your therapists shoulders would not be therapeutic, it would be a sort of role reversal.

[Omers]

I can totally relate to that urge/need! I doubt that she would be OK with you rubbing her shoulders and, honestly, I would question her ethics if she allowed it... but, if it were me, with my T I would totally tell him and talk about it! I know he would be understanding.

[nottrustin]

I totally understand the urge to do this. My long term T use to tell me she didn't need me to mother her...she was about 20 years older than me.

I think what you describe is one of the reasons many therapists do not cry in therapy

[vander512]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

I think what you describe is one of the reasons many therapists do not cry in therapy

I wish I could cry and experience emotions rather than just hold everything in. I don't think it is a bad thing she cries.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by vander512

I wish I could cry and experience emotions rather than just hold everything in. I don't think it is a bad thing she cries.

Both of my Ts have cried but they have hidden it quite well. It id only because it has happened multiple times that I was able to the pattern. Like you I like that the can express emotions but ai would be the type of person who would want to protect them and would stop talking about whatever I was talking about.

[Rive.]

Erm, yes, it would be very inappropriate to rub your therapist's shoulders.

Clients aren't there to comfort their therapists, they can (or ought to) take care of themselves.

[Salmon77]

It's fine to tell her you have the desire to comfort her in this way. Fantasies are just fantasies, and it might be interesting to explore this one. But it probably shouldn't become a reality.

[stopdog]

I don't think there is anything wrong with telling the therapist about it. I would not think it a good idea at all to actually do it. I think it would be a very very bad plan to actually do it.

[Blueberry21]

If you choose to tell her about your desire to do this, she’ll probably help you talk through what it means and how this desire might apply to other relationships in your life. Like whether you have caretaking or codependent tendencies.

She should not actually permit you to touch her - that would be unethical.

If you don’t want to tell her your precise thoughts about rubbing her shoulders, you could be more general:

“I keep thinking about how much I appreciate your help in therapy and how sometimes you seem distressed at the things we discuss. I Get the urge to somehow comfort you when this happens - even though I know that you’re my therapist and it’s your job to listen to me. I was wondering whether this urge to comfort you in response to my pain, might be worth discussing.”

[vander512]

I do have a strong attachment to my therapist. I understand this.

I think about her often. I comfort myself by writing nice letters to her. ( I never send them. I just enjoy writing them.) A lot of times it is like a second grader who thinks the world of their teacher. Maybe more intense.

I don't think there is really anything to explore about this subject. Infants develop attachments to their caregivers. In the same way patients develop attachments to their therapist. I get it.

I just struggle with this cause I am only able to see her once a week. Like what am I supposed to do with the other 6 days and 23 hours? All kidding aside. I really struggle with this.

I just want to do this for her. Not because I expect anything in return or want to gain a secondary advantage. I just want to do it because it is a nice thing to do. Of course she would decline. It makes me feel awful that I have nothing to offer her.

[Omers]

Please do not underestimate what you do offer her as I am sure there is a lot. What we give our T’s isn’t the same as in a relationship outside therapy but there is a give and take just the same. For my T the greatest gift is trust... even if it isn’t enough to fill a thimble, any show of growing trust is the best gift I could give him.

[Gettingitsoon]

Love your post Omers.
Made me think!

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by vander512

It makes me feel awful that I have nothing to offer her.

The therapist gets paid - that is what the client offers. That is why they do it - that is the exchange - the client gets whatever nebulous thing therapy offers and the therapist gets money.

[ScarletPimpernel]

L and I just had the discussion of what I give back to her (besides money) because sometime in the near future I might not be able to pay her.

I give her trust and love and respect. I show up on time, I'm present, I follow through on our agreements (i.e. safety plan). I always try my best. Lately I've been working on being more open and "leaning into" therapy. There are so many ways we can give back to our Ts.

[divine1966]

Most people get more out of a job than monetary compensation. So I’d say that clients/patients/students give to their therapists/doctors/teachers more than a paycheck.

So I am sure you give a lot to your therapist. But I think shoulder rubbing is excessive and not very appropriate but it’s ok to share with your t that you feel like doing something nice, it’s a good discussion topic

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by vander512

I just want to do it because it is a nice thing to do.

No, it sounds like you want to do it because you feel like the benefits of therapy should be mutual and you don't feel like you're pulling your weight. But that's not how therapy is supposed to work.

Originally Posted by vander512

It makes me feel awful that I have nothing to offer her.

This is why people are suggesting there is more to explore here. There is no reason for you to feel awful. I think you just find it uncomfortable for the caregiving to all be focused on you. Think about going to see a doctor. You don't compensate them by spending time discussing their health and wellness. When you go see an accountant, you don't spend time talking about their finances or comforting them if they are struggling financially. And you definitely should not spend time comforting your therapist over things that happened to YOU because SHE gets upset about them.

I think maybe you are confused about the nature of the relationship due to your therapist's crying. Professional relationships are not about providing mutual support to each other, except in the sense that clients provide financial compensation in exchange for a service.

[ArtleyWilkins]

Rubbing shoulders, unless you are a hired massage therapist, is an activity reserved for spouses or the closest of friends - maybe. Completely inappropriate for therapy. What may need to be explored is why you think you have to provide anything, particularly physically, to your therapist other than your presence and your fees. Physical reciprocation doesn't factor in and perhaps this is an offshoot of older history in your life?

It isn't our job to take care of our therapists. Yes, I've had therapists clearly have emotional reactions to my therapy, but they were professional enough and self-sufficient enough to handle their emotions on their own without me having to do anything for them.

If you want to do something nice for your therapist, honestly, a simple thank-you speaks volumes.

[vander512]

I will speak candidly and say that most therapist suck. I mean bad.

A lot of therapist just sit their passively scratching their ***. You can say anything or nothing. They don't care. You can share something rather personal they still don't care. They just sit there with a straight face and say something contrived like "what does that bring up for you?"

I like my current T cause she is authentic. I don't think it is inappropriate that she gets teary eyed in session. I think it is horrible that someone would cry in front of you and you would just sit there and offer them a kleenex.

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by vander512

I like my current T cause she is authentic. I don't think it is inappropriate that she gets teary eyed in session. I think it is horrible that someone would cry in front of you and you would just sit there and offer them a kleenex.

I would find it intruding if I'm crying and my therapist would be trying to actively comfort me. Even offering a kleenex feels intruding.

My interpretation is that those therapists, who cannot just sit with the crying person and give room for their emotions and feel the need to do something, like actively sooth or comfort, are actually not able to contain these feelings themselves and thus they start comforting the patient in order to really comfort themselves. I wouldn't say that it's horrible but definitely somewhat unprofessional.

[Elio]

My T is one that sits there and does not offer me tissue. She gladly gets me tissue if I ask. It's a mixed bag; because she is completely present with me and I have no doubt that she is invested in whatever is going on with me. I do not find her to be a horrible person because of not trying to comfort me in some way at that moment. In fact, I'm fairly grateful that she allows me to experience my experience without feeling pushed in some way because of her response to my tears. I've gone as far as to tell her that I need her to not be different or do something that feels like I might have manipulated her because of my tears.

On the flip side, I do get angry or have gotten angry that I have to ask for the tissue. At times, I've felt embarrassed by what I might look like since I don't have a tissue. There's also some weird thing that happens when she does offer a tissue that I seem to be only able to take 1. Which is so not the case when I'm at home or in many other situations, but I digress.

[susannahsays]

I would like to be offered a tissue. From my perspective, it's just the considerate thing to do. It doesn't make me feel silenced or pushed. If I offer someone a tissue, it is not because I have a need for them to stop crying or am uncomfortable but because of how I myself prefer to be treated when crying. I want to preserve some dignity and that's hard to do with tears and snot running down my face. For someone to just sit there feels like it sends the message that what I'm doing is inappropriate and I should stop ASAP since my tears don't even warrant an offer of a tissue.

I'm not saying other people are wrong to feel differently about being offered tissues, but I don't think it can be assumed that the offer reflects some sort of pathological deficit on the part of the therapist. I think how a person receives the offer of tissues or lack thereof is about that person more than the offerer.

[ArtleyWilkins]

Fortunately, my therapist kept multiple boxes of kleenex in easy reach of you no matter where you were sitting in his office. Kind of cut out the whole issue of handing or not handing the tissue to you which was good as far as I was concerned.

ETA: I didn't cry in therapy for many years. It had nothing to do with not having been allowed to cry growing up or anything; I think it was more of an internal control thing for me. But eventually it just started happening. I found it rather mortifying at first, and I would NOT have wanted the therapist bringing attention to my crying by offering kleenex - I needed the control to do that on my own. Eventually, crying was like my normal in therapy. I didn't like it (too much tears and snot. LOL), but I wasn't embarrassed about it particularly anymore either.

My therapist knew me well enough to generally not react to my crying. The only times he did was if the crying seemed to be part of a flashback - that was a whole other can of worms. Normally, he just let me be because he knew that was what I needed.

We all have such different needs in therapy, and communicating what you need is necessary because otherwise, the therapist is honestly going to have to guess and will probably get it wrong initially because it's a bit of a crap shoot for them really. Does this client want me to say something? Does this client prefer to be left on their own to regain composure? Etc, etc, etc.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

Fortunately, my therapist kept multiple boxes of kleenex in easy reach of you no matter where you were sitting in his office. Kind of cut out the whole issue of handing or not handing the tissue to you which was good as far as I was concerned.

Same with my current T. I like when they're in accessible locations so I don't have to ask. Though I sort of miss the free tissues now that we're meeting over Zoom...especially as I tend to use a lot of them at times!

But I think there's something helpful to me about a T just sitting there and accepting it as I cry. Because my parents had issues with it, and I think I even got more in trouble a few times as a little kid if I kept crying. So for someone to be there with me and seem accepting and not judging, it helps. And I've apologized both to ex-MC and current T for crying, then realized what I was saying. Like, I'm apologizing to a therapist for this. They keep boxes of tissues in their office for a reason...


I can think of a time, not with a T, but when I really needed a tissue from a doctor and had to awkwardly ask while crying. When my D's developmental pediatrician told us, after being unsure for multiple visits, that my D was on the autism spectrum, and I was sitting there basically sobbing, as she just kept talking. I saw tissues on a high shelf across the room and was finally like, "Can I get a tissue?"