Couch 217: The Order of the Phoenix couch

@@ - maybe shes trying to understand white people? Cuz i sure dont. I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X - well, i was gonna say in junior high, so i checked the publication date. Thats about right.

I finally figured out, a while ago, maybe THATS why the nuns didnt want us reading just anything in our readers? I mean, we had huge books of short stories and novel excerpts, and i do remember getting yelled at once about "reading ahead", although not too seriously. They didnt want us getting TOO liberal an education. Those darn forward-thinking novelists!

Weather report - ah, it's raining! So at least it's not heat index 100 and sunny!

And my amazon package came. I dont know if i mentioned it, but they kept saying my building was closed! Its not! The restaurant in front is, but not the apartment! I was afraid i was gonna end up on youtube going all karen on the amazon driver, "gimme me my oreos!!"

“Gimme my Oreos” while going all Karen doesn’t sound like you.

I’m more puzzled by Info a) being out of the office indefinitely because of at-risk husband and also b) flying with the same husband to Michigan.

And speaking of flying, my chair has just announced she’s flying to *Europe* on Friday with a stop in freaking Florida along the way. I didn’t even think Europe was letting us in.

But I’m only fourth in the line of succession so I don’t think I need to worry.

Dr. T said something today that I keep thinking about regarding my D. Need to trigger warning it:

Wouldn’t it be more helpful for him to explore with you why your daughter might react to you that way than that he say it’s like emotional abuse? Because the latter sets up a totally different dynamic than the former.

And your daughter has a therapist who might have insight, too; maybe it could be a joint effort.

It could be as simple as she’s picked up on your anxiety about the pandemic and it scares her, like you’re not the same mommy she knows any longer, so she turns to your husband instead and rejects you.

Which is not to blame you in any way or to say it shouldn’t affect you—just his focus seems weird to me, even if he is blunt. I can’t imagine it’s helpful for a client (or anyone) to think of their nine year old as like they’re emotionally abusive.

ETA: I mean if she was like 19 or 29, an adult, I’d be fine with his wording and I’d think it should be something a therapist would say, but she’s 9. Makes me wonder about his kid and their relationship.

Thanks for the comments. We've talked about a few ways we can try to help her over the past few months. And also met with her T a week ago (was mostly H and I meeting with her, though D said hi a few times).


I think in this case it was T trying to validate some of my feelings, as I'm struggling with not really being able to help her much. She's favoring H so much, and I know it's hard on him because she's not giving him much space. But then even when I offer to do some things with her, like take her out back to play in (inflatable) pool or sandbox, she'll say no and want to wait for him. Or H could be yelling at her, and she still prefers him over me generally (she did actually go to me for comfort when he was yelling a couple weeks ago). She will tolerate me out on the back deck with her for brief periods, longer if H is there.

I do worry that she's picking up on my depression and anxiety. I mean, she's seen me crying a couple times, in the past couple months which I feel really guilty about. For a long stretch pre-pandemic, she strongly favored me and would be upset by H merely walking down the stairs past her room. And now she's done a complete 180. It's not that I want her to favor me--I just want her to be able to be OK with either of us caring for her.

Some of it is that I feel sort of useless right now, in regard to her. And rejected. I want to help her, and I empathize with her struggles being home, but I don't know how. I think Dr. T was just trying to validate that.

Just read your ETA--I also wonder about his relationship with his son (who, again, may be on the spectrum as well). The times he seems emotional during session are nearly always times when I'm talking about struggles with D. So I wonder if some of it resonates, like he's been there. (I know better than to ask him.)

ETA: It could also be that his son is a neurotypical 12- or 13-year-old (I know he's around that age because T told me his age when I asked when I started seeing him) starting to go through puberty and rebelling a bit...

I could see where having your kid scream at you would feel really upsetting, especially if you are already stressed out. I do agree with @@ that the framing there may not be quite right in terms of setting the tone with your relationship with your child. (If you start to even think of your kid in negative terms, it can have really negative consequences all around in terms of how you interpret their behavior!) So maybe the term emotional abuse is something to mull over in terms of the effect it's having on you but not on what is actually happening in the moment. I think emotional abuse would require the abuser to have either more power or equal power to the abused, which isn't really the case with a child-to-parent relationship.

I like verbal validation as a tool. "Wow, you really want dad instead of me. You seem [insert emotion] that I'm here right now." And then staying totally calm (at least outwardly!) and not changing anything or going to get her dad. Then she can express her feelings but not have that scary feeling that she's in control. Maybe this only works with little kids, though, I don't know.

That seems like a good approach, and D is behind in social skills, so little-kid stuff might work on her. I do tell her that it makes me sad to hear things like "I don't like you," but I'm not sure she really cares? Or else doesn't understand what I mean? I've tried to explain to her in the sense of, what if someone said that to her, how would she feel? And she's said it would make her sad. But she doesn't seem able to make the leap to "well, then I shouldn't say it to other people, because it might make them sad." I imagine that's in large part due to her being on the spectrum, so I try not to hold it against her at all.


I feel like maybe Dr. T is just trying to have me not discount my feelings. Because I tend to empathize with others, and it would be easy for me to be like, "My hurt feelings about what she said aren't valid because she doesn't understand how what she's saying hurts me." So I think he's just trying to validate what effect all that could have on me, particularly over time (vs. a random comment). Not to see my D as an enemy or anything. Because I agree that an abuser needs to have some level of power.


I intend to talk about it more next session.

Im having a deja vu about talking about verbal validation.

LT, if you tell your D it makes you sad when she says x - well, you just cant do that. Its creepy! It sounds like something my old aunties would say!

lit $200 worth of fireworks for fourth of july. Memory problems I cant remember much about them. My memory sucks. I bought 200pk of zots candy. Hopefully I win the lotto. I bought a lucky for life easy pick and lotto 47 easy pick. I would buy a new house, and share my winnings with my family, maybe go on a few vacations.

I think it makes perfect sense that you would be feeling a sense of verbal validation deja vu right now.

Whoa, I haven't thought about Zotz in forever! My mouth is watering just thinking about them. Are they still tasty in a weird way?

I'm so emotionally exhausted that I want to go hide in bed and watch Netflix or read till bedtime.

That isn't something I'm good at, though. I feel like if I'm not on the move I'm not alive.

Thank you! I feel so verbally validated!

I guess we are the proof that opposites attract!

How is it creepy? It's something that her T has suggested we do (or something similar). If she doesn't understand how saying "I don't like you" or "I hate you" affects other people, who is going to teach her? I've said the same when she's said similar things to H.

LT...keep in mind una's old aunties were the witches in Macbeth.

This gardening things a doddle. I javent been out in the garden a lot lately just to water because its way too cold. I checked on my plants yesterday and one of my hibiscus has a least 7 buds. Not bad for stincking it inthe ground watering it and picking a few bugs off. I will post pictures of my first ever flowers i have grown.

Well, the creepiness for me is that it sounds like my aunts (and mother) trying to shame the little one. That was the ONLY parenting trick in their arsenal (besides hitting). So it was creepy because it was the only time they tried to sound nice, when in reality they were seething mad. So it really rang false, and it was just a giant guilt trip.

Hey, the kid is just saying they dont like something.

Thats where manatees verbal validation comes in. I HEAR YOU. YOU DONT LIKE THIS. THATS OKAY. LETS DO THIS INSTEAD. Or however it works. Nothing in there about YOUR feelings or anyone elses. She is NOT capable of making that jump yet. She is just trying to feel, express, and manage her own feelings. Empathy is a ways off. Verbal validation will teach her empathy by example.

Youre SAD??? That has GOT to be the LAST thing ANY kid wants to hear. Im getting upset hearing it, and it's "just" transference!