The adult part taking care of the child part

Ok so I could not take it anymore and I emailed my T I stopped seeing in April about helping me deal with this EXTREME transference to him and to talk about it head on. He agreed. We had a session and he said we need to go right back into getting the adult part of me to nurture and take care of the child part because it is the child part that has transfered that need to him because I am not doing it myself.

I had to be just a little bit willing to do that. If I want to continue to suffer in agony like this for ever and possibly end up killing myself then I need to figure out a way for my adult part to want to take care of that whiny annoying trouble making child part. I have done IFS before with another therapist and have never been able to do that.

Anyone have any experience doing this?

It's great you contacted them to tackle the transference, I think that seems like a big step in the adult part taking care of the child part.

I try to do this...it is SO HARD.

Maybe I'm better at it now than I was. Hmm not really I don't know. I do find it embarrassing. Once I asked my therapist if our session time was ok with him, because it's lunchtime and I thought maybe he was hungry and would rather eat. He laughed and said, 'oh no, I never let myself go hungry.' It made me feel so **** that I can't even feed myself, he finds the thought laughable.

Sorry for going off on a rant there but it is something I really struggle with. I don't feel like I will ever be able to take care of myself in the same way I would have, if I'd had it as a child/teen.

I do not know if it was the adult part that actually emailed T. I feel in, IFS terms, it was a manager part because the adult and the kid part could not get their act together and were creating the perfect storm for a serious life and death matter.

That definitely makes sense. I still have trouble telling which of my parts is doing what, think that's why I assumed, sorry.

My T does Ego State and that only has 3 parts. Adult, Parent, Child.

My x-T did IFS and that has like zillion parts. I did not like the about 3 choses but felt the manager seemed a better fit.

I don't do IFS with my T but we did Schema Therapy. Initially I hated my child part. I couldn't stand them. I'd want to abuse my child part.

I needed T to be the Adult comforting my Child during imagery exercises, and standing up to the abusive Parent parts. And for T to tell me how my child part doesn't deserve the venom I directed at them. They were just a child trying to get needs met, and boy did I hate the neediness (and my younger self!).

Over time and with repetition, my hatred of my Child part diminished and T started bringing Adult Me into imagery exercises and we nurture my Child part together.

I wish i could articulate clearly what happened for me to stop hating my Child part. I know I read up on child development and realised I was having very unrealistic views of my Child part. And I blamed my Child part (and so my younger self) for the abuse, because I was looking with adult eyes and brain as though I expected a child to have adult capacities. "My younger self was bad. My younger self could have done this, didn't do that etc"

I think i also found the UN declaration of rights for children helpful. And i realised i had nothing but compassion for friends' child parts.

I'm in a position where my best bet is to try to do the same. Except, I feel like I have several child parts that want completely different things, and even most/much of my adult-ish self feels more like a child playing at being an adult (and it's the shittiest game ever, and it's getting increasingly overwhelmed, and just wants to quit already). So I think I might have to build up the actual 'adult' part in the first place, strengthen it to the point where it can cope with all that very intense (and often inarticulate) child stuff. Then it can maybe handle these various 'children' according to their individual needs and also get them to communicate / compromise somehow. It's certainly not feeling up to the task at the moment.

I don't think my real adult part hates any of the 'child' ones, but the pseudo-adult that's in charge much of the time very much does. Or some other younger parts hate each other, or both, it's really hard to get a sense of. (TW violent imagery)

The way I'm using the words 'part' and 'adult' is not meant to fit into any of the theoretical systems as I don't have deep enough know;edge of them (though perhaps I should dig deeper into IFS, but first will have to see how my T handles all this)

Might not be for everyone, but I listened to a lot of inner child meditations.





I would also second looking up the therapist John Bradshaw- there's a few of his videos on youtube from his series called Homecoming.

Sorry, but I think your T is simply cruel, impatient and doesn't care about you. The IFS makes the assumption that this suitable adult part exist. If that assumption holds then the IFS model can be successful. If the assumption does not hold (like probably in your case) then forcing the model is just torture.

People are not born with the compassionate adult part that can take care of their child part. This is modeled to them by their significant adults who actually took care of them. Sure, in psychotherapy, a therapist cannot take care of the patient the same way as if they would be a parent and the patient was a child, because a therapist always has to keep in mind the reality that they are both adults. But at a symbolic level they can take care of the patient in a limited manner which can be enough to generate the feeling cared of and thus the emergence of the compassionate adult part. But this T is not willing to do this part.

Do you want my honest opinion? Find someone to whom you could direct all your transferential feelings and who would be strong enough to accept them all and at the same time would hold the proper boundaries to not make things worse for you, who would be patient enough to let the process run its course. This IFS guy simply isn't up to this task.

That would be a corrective experience. In theory that can work but how long does that take. Will that make parting with the therapist even more torturous.

I know you're in Europe and things may be different there, but how would you find a person like this where you are?

Exactly. That is an impossible task especially with therapy around here virtual and all the therapist taking insurance only do CBT and are not into reparenting or transference based therapy.

It takes as long as it takes. But of course you realize that the point of a corrective experience is to make parting with the therapist bearable.

Bearable is not so bad.

Right, exactly!

I still have the same old answer that I have expressed several times in these forums. The only people I know who are trained to do the long-term work focused around transference are psychoanalysts. It does not guarantee anything of course but in my opinion the chances of finding someone decent whose own s... is more or less together is increased with these folks.

But that's the dilemma, then, isn't it? Still no guarantee. Of course, I went down the rabbit hole anyway, with people who couldn't handle it.

When I first started seeing therapists, over 55 years ago when I was still a teenager, that's all they had was psychoanalysis. I didn't see the point. And then came not to trust them. Plus, there began to be a lot of popular press about psychotherapy being as good or better and less costly and time consuming.

Why did none of the general therapists or IOP's I went to in recent years recommend psychoananalysis, I wonder? Why do regular therapists not recommend it when they are having countertransference problems they can't handle? Or when, like Moxie, they have a client who clearly identifies the transference issue themselves?

Why leave clients floundering or worse when there is something that has a clear record of possible or at least some known percentage of effectiveness? My trust in the profession, including psychoanalysts, is out the window on this. They have hurt me too much.

And yet, and yet -- my own rationality says that maybe some of this is maybe the "too much" hurt that I could not feel from early in my life, that the hurt from the last therapist pierced/triggered. But I don't think I need or needed a psychoanalyst to help after that -- the damage/reinjury was done. What I have needed, I think, is a healing social environment, where I could rebuild a sense of who I am, in a world with others. That doesn't exist -- support groups help, but there is no clear path or understanding. Maybe that's what I needed when I was a child, that didn't exist then either, so no way to get that now? IDK..

That doesn't seem exactly like your situation, Moxie. What seems to have been triggered is the longing for the transference figure, would you say? There's no way I would allow another therapist or analyst to trigger whatever it was in me that got triggered with the last one again. So I'm wondering if it is also not likely that another therapist/analyst would/could generate another transference for you, either?

Which leaves -- dealing with the transference that is there, which the IFS guy doesn't seem to be able to do.

Could that be "analyzed" with a competent transference-focused analyst I wonder? I have seen people advertising transference-focused treatment for BPD (I don't have that, so I didn't try it). Not their usual line of work, maybe, but maybe worth a shot?

What I'm trying now is actually 2 different therapists. The Betterhelp T seemed a little too young and inexperienced. So I may not be able to get much feedback about what it is like, what she feels, when I am offputting to her in some way or the other. As I began to realize that, I freaked out and found someone on the internet who advertised they treat personality disorders (not just BPD because I don't have that). And they actually answered their phone!!! No voicemail! Surprise, surprise. So I'll see, and stay with the Betterhelp T, too -- she thought it was a good idea. We've discussed the fact that what I feel I need is "non-standard" and she is willing to try to help.

What can I say, HT? Disclaimer, the following is purely my personal opinion and I am no authority to anyone, these are simply my personal views.

Of course there are no guarantees. How could there be? Psychotherapy is a relationship between two people and whether it brings along the results that are desired or that are acceptable depends very much on both people. And now I know what you are going to tell me - something along the lines how your for instance did not even know what you should have brought into the relationship in order to make it work and that's all true. Everyone is bringing what they can, both the patient and the therapist and that's precisely why there cannot be any guarantee, because the relationship is what these two people manage (or fail) to do together. Psychotherapy is not something that one person is doing to another, it can only be created together. And jeez, how I struggle with it myself but at least I understand it theoretically.

Why therapists do not suggest people to go to analysts? Because psychoanalysis is quite obviously out of fashion, for several reasons (but not dying). First, it officially takes a long time and hence it's costly, and this kind of message is not good for marketing. Generally, people want to solve their problems quickly and cheaply. Secondly, your average psychotherapist knows nothing about contemporary psychoanalysis, only perhaps that it is unscientific and outdated. Evicence-based practice is what anyone wanting to be successful wants to do. The idea of the evidence-based practice is in principle very reasonable but the practical realization often does not tolerate any criticism. Psychoanalysis, the proper long-term process, willing to deal patiently with anything, is of course not evidence-based because it would be quite impossible to device even a sloppy RCT to test it. Psychoanalysis has never been meant to be measured by statistical averages, it has been and is a tailor's suit.

Of course, this slow, long and painful process (because it will be painful, that's for sure) if not suitable and right for everyone. Maybe some wounds are simply too painful and even if theoretically it might be possible to heal them, perhaps practically it might take more than a person's lifetime. And for sure there are quite many problems that can be alleviated with less intensive and less deep methods, including something completely different than psychotherapy. But for some characterological problems, I believe this is the best that there is available.

Well, I am way to attached to this T to leave and he is willing to try and help in the modality he is trained in so either I accept that or not. If I accept then I have to show up to session willing to do my best and try. Yes I have tried in the past and have this major block on imagining taking care of an imaginary child part. IDK I just know I get to sit in the same room has him for an hour a week.

Maybe just sitting in the room with him -- and him being the person who is willing to have you just sit in the room with him for an hour a week -- will help to generate within you whatever it is you need for this modality to work. I hope so, anyway.

I think this might be part of the problem with this T. He doesn't seem willing or able to have you just sit in the room with him, giving you the space to explore yourself at your pace and in the way that feels right for you. I believe this is one of the healing qualities of what feileacan is referring to in the long process of psychoanalysis. Well, I guess from my experience that seems to be the case.

What happens with this T when you start talking about the manager? Does he challenge your feelings of who or what this part is for you? Does he try to put that part into one of the boxes of adult or parent? Does he claim it to be part of the child? Does he allow you to let this part be in the room with you however you experience it, without trying to push you or that experience to fit a world view that doesn't feel right inside (at this point in your life). Or is it some type of internal pressure you put on yourself because of knowing his leanings towards the ego state paradigm of the mind?

I think him being able to accept that this is where you are, that this is how you feel and experience things regardless of what label is used is key to building that relationship that is needed/necessary for this type of therapy.

Again, for me, it's only been in slowing things down and being allowed to be in space with my T, that I've seen or am experiencing things differently. Again like feileacan stated, if there's not an adult part or maybe I should say a part that is a compassionate adult part (maybe even an I state, all kind of depends on how you experience your world) then ... well I needed my T to show me what it means to be compassionate and curious about my child parts - to give me words through modeling of how welcomed and wanted that part is.

I also recognize what unaluna says about the point of a corrective experience is to make parting with the therapist bearable. I grieve for that moment and the loss of T as my adult/parent object while at the same time, seeing baby steps I am making towards internalizing that object. It's a much better object than my internalized bully/abuser/enforcer. I still have a long ways to go.

BTW, I am in the states. If you choose to try to find someone with a psychoanalytic bend...
Psychoanalytic-Friendly Graduate Programs in Psychoanalysis

List of schools of psychoanalysis - Wikipedia

May lead you to someone.

My T is a pDoc. I started seeing her while she was still in school. Since graduating, she moved onto a psychoanalytic training program and is currently still in that program. That being said, one of her classmates that graduated with her, also moved onto the psychoanalytic training program. They shared a waiting room when they first graduated from the pDoc school. He would not have worked for me when I first started. My first impressions brings out way too many responses that are in alignment with that internalized bully/abuser/enforcer part. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy and all that --- but transference is what it is and that voice at that time (and I think even now) does not need encouragement or reenforcement. Plus, I can't see him playing. So... even within the psychoanalytical world, you may struggle to find someone that just fits well enough with where you are and what you need.

Oh and regards to your statement of "he is willing to try and help in the modality he is trained in so either I accept that or not. If I accept then I have to show up to session willing to do my best and try." Did you ask him what having you try or doing your best looks like to him?

Sorry for the long reply. Take care

So, is this what is happening? You had a not good enough parent. You find a not good enough t. This t also had a not good enough parent, and doesnt know how to be one. Now you are trying to make him be one, just as you did with your original parent. Permanent impasse. Their only tactic is for you to realize the futility of getting blood from a stone.

Why not find a t who knows how to be a good enough parent? Personally, i found it easier to distinguish the difference when a t started treating me like a human person. Nobody ever really had before.

People will let you be just as weird as you want to be, and not necessarily call you out on it. Or you dont hear it, just as your parent didnt hear you. Your world just shrinks without you realizing it.

At first I didn't really like the T who became my "good enough" parent figure. I thought she was smart and nice enough, but I didn't feel strong parental yearnings for her for a year or more. The way things were between us felt too stable and too alien for the attachment-y parts to really go to town. Before this T, that strong attachment thing was more likely to happen in situations where I couldn't quite get my needs met or I was never exactly sure if I was good enough. So sometimes I think it pays to be cautious when your child part gets really attached to somebody who says they can't help you. Maybe it's a sign you're repeating old patterns?

I need to correct everyone on this. My current T I crawled back to does Ego State. My x-T did IFS. I only said manager part because that is how it fits and feels in my mind.

[QUOTE=Elio;6924897] Oh and regards to your statement of "he is willing to try and help in the modality he is trained in so either I accept that or not. If I accept then I have to show up to session willing to do my best and try." Did you ask him what having you try or doing your best looks like to him?/QUOTE]

I only had that one session with him to actually talk about the torture I have been in for the past few months because of my transference to him. My first working session is this Thursday.

Is he not a good enough T? Did he not have good enough parents? I do not think that is true. Why would you think that is true?

Maybe I am playing out repetition compulsion. Expecting a therapist to play parent when that will never be possible for a therapist to do as they should not be doing that anyway. So I am asking the impossible.