[cool09]

I didn't totally get the gist of what she said but she said, "We can talk all day and not get anywhere. It's up to you to do the work." (which I agree with but makes me anxious).

[AliceKate]

That's not her saying talk therapy won't work, it's just that the most important aspect of talk therapy is you putting in the work between sessions. Else it won't work.

[Breaking Dawn]

I understand, cool09! I have had very wrong, hurtful therapists, too. I'm so sorry you are in this situation, searching for a true, caring, & smart therapist. I have wishes for you, on their way through our magical cosmos.

[Samicat]

I'm not sure this is the wrong therapist for you - you'll know more in a few sessions. I'm a big believer in doing the work, although I do think a skilled therapist can guide you to insights through talking. However I think the most effective therapies involve homework. I've done CBT and ACT, both of which helped me, although the results diminish with time if you don't keep exercising the skills (I haven't kept it up as much as I should have, but with working and so on it's tough.) However I'm still better off.

[ArtleyWilkins]

My therapist was of a similar mind. It was taking my insights and skills and using them between sessions that really made my progress stick.

[cool09]

I don't have any skills, I'm very introverted and socializing is very difficult (since I was 13). I want to do the work but my anxiety is very incapacitating.

[AliceKate]

You don't have to take hugh steps, not even one single big one. many small ones are fine. small as is hardly noticable. Like when you walk somewhere and you look back an hour later and you're like wow that was a long way. If you achieve that feeling within say 2 years, that's fine.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by AliceKate

You don't have to take hugh steps, not even one single big one. many small ones are fine. small as is hardly noticable. Like when you walk somewhere and you look back an hour later and you're like wow that was a long way. If you achieve that feeling within say 2 years, that's fine.

I agree with this. Maybe it would help to set some very small goals with her?

Here's a personal example: So I developed some agoraphobia (fear of being outside/among people) during the earlier part of the pandemic. Merely being outside of the house was freaking me out. So my T came up with some gradual steps for me. One being to just open the door and stand there, looking outside. Another to step onto my porch for a minute. One to just go sit in my car without going anywhere. Then to drive around the block, etc. And we celebrated each one.

So for social anxiety, you could come up with similar small goals. Maybe one is, say, calling to make a needed appointment on the phone. Or going and placing a carryout order at a restaurant (or on the phone). Taking a walk where you could potentially run into other people. A brief shopping trip, etc. But small, attainable goals.

[Nammu]

You keep saying you have no skills. But you obviously can spell, use a computer, post here appropriately and know how make appointments, tell time, dress yourself, those are skills that not everyone has. So you do have skills. I think you sell yourself short. Maybe discuss with your therapist why you think you can’t do anything and you desire others to fix you while you passively do nothing to improve your situation.

[cool09]

So for social anxiety, you could come up with similar small goals. Maybe one is, say, calling to make a needed appointment on the phone. Or going and placing a carryout order at a restaurant (or on the phone). Taking a walk where you could potentially run into other people. A brief shopping trip, etc. But small, attainable goals.

I can't take small social steps. I want to be able to hold a complete conversation (and I get very frustrated when I can't). Using the phone or going out to the supermarket gives me lots of anxiety because I have no confidence and I have to build it up when I do these things every day. I'm 59 and it's too late to work on these things. Thanks for all of the suggestions.

I can write because I got a good education and had a good writing course in college. (Don't ask me how I got thru college because I couldn't hold a conversation to save my life.)

[Therapy reviewed]

Maybe she left a small bit off the end of that sentence "... With Her"

[divine1966]

Not holding a full blown conversation isn’t really required for a successful life. Plenty of people don’t talk much at all. If you want to work there are plenty of jobs that don’t require talking. Phone? You don’t need to talk on the phone. You could text or email. No it’s not too late.

[WastingAsparagus]

It's hard to comment on this without full context, which obviously I don't have nor would I solicit, but to comment on my own experience with therapists, it seems like sometimes therapists are one of two types (this is a huge generalization, so don't take it to be the only two types of therapists). They are either action-oriented or insight-oriented.

That doesn't mean that either can't help you. I had one therapist that practiced in a more action-oriented fashion for me but that just ended up amplifying my perfectionism and me being hard on myself.

So obviously, the fit might not be right if you're thinking you need a therapist that might be more insight-oriented.

Because it doesn't seem to me like the therapist is throwing up their hands, as some do, and we all know this, probably, that some therapists just can't help us.

Anyway, I hope you find your way with this particular therapist or perhaps you could make a switch. But you could also express your concerns to this particular therapist, such as "I didn't feel comfortable with the way you expressed the fact that I have to do all the work." I.e., asking this therapist "What did you mean by that?" might be a good place to start.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by cool09

I can't take small social steps. I want to be able to hold a complete conversation (and I get very frustrated when I can't). Using the phone or going out to the supermarket gives me lots of anxiety because I have no confidence and I have to build it up when I do these things every day. I'm 59 and it's too late to work on these things. Thanks for all of the suggestions.

I can write because I got a good education and had a good writing course in college. (Don't ask me how I got thru college because I couldn't hold a conversation to save my life.)

I don't think it's too late to work on these things. Ideally, your therapist could help you build up your confidence in these sorts of things. And maybe let you practice with her.

[cool09]

I don't think it's too late to work on these things. Ideally, your therapist could help you build up your confidence in these sorts of things. And maybe let you practice with her.

I got a bad vibe from her. She seemed a little narcissistic, talked about herself a lot ("I have this business, I have that business, etc.") then said "I'm going to say things you don't like". At the end she said, "I want to help you".

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Therapy reviewed

Maybe she left a small bit off the end of that sentence "... With Her"

I was thinking exactly this!!

[Rive.]

I'm 59 and it's too late to work on these things

So, why are you going to therapy, if you believe it is too late to see any change whatsoever?

You hold a lot of limiting beliefs (e.g. I don't have any skills"... "I can't take small social steps") and it seems this is what your therapist was drawing to your attention. If you already believe you are incapable and that it is too late for anything to change then yes, simply talking is a waste of your time and money.

As your T rightly said, talking will not solve anything because *she* can't take these steps for you - *you* are the one who will have to push yourself and make these small changes.

[Fuzzybear]

You have skills. Maybe one skill you can practise with this therapist is to boot her in the Azz. With WORDS, I mean. Not all therapists make such inane, useless, statements. Have you looked into DBT?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by cool09

I got a bad vibe from her. She seemed a little narcissistic, talked about herself a lot ("I have this business, I have that business, etc.") then said "I'm going to say things you don't like". At the end she said, "I want to help you".

Hm, the narcissism sounds bad. For her last comment, if you plan to see her again, I'd ask, "How do you plan to help me?" Talk to her about how she thinks she can help.

[cool09]

So, why are you going to therapy, if you believe it is too late to see any change whatsoever?

I don't have many options, I'll try anything at this point. I tried ECT 4 times and every medication I might as well try this.

I'd ask, "How do you plan to help me?" Talk to her about how she thinks she can help.

I asked her "how do you get rid of anxiety?" and she gave me a short answer I can't remember. (I realize some anxiety is totally normal.)

Hm, the narcissism sounds bad.

She hardly looked at me. But I think I'll give her a chance. I've emailed over 50 therapists the last few mths and only got a few replies most of which were "I don't take Medicare". I had a Dr. 30 yrs ago call me a "shmuck" among other things so I'm use to some abuse in the past.

[Nammu]

Sometimes people say they will try anything but they don’t really try or give it a chance because they are too afraid of change. Even if changes would be good and positive. You’ve been in your pessimist valley for decades. You say you’re willing to try but you put her down and say things like she’s a narcissist so you have a reason not to succeed. From what you wrote she sounds like a realist and that could be good for you. Are you willing to tell her you are scared to let go of your negative beliefs? That you are too comfortable in the pit you’ve dug for yourself to truly want to change? If you start there and address those fears you could then move forward.

[cool09]

**** you.

Seems like Nammu touched a few home truths.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by cool09

**** you.

Blame the victim is often the knee jerk response by therapists and their acolytes. I believe that therapy often doesn't work because and it is not the fault of the client. Those people really oversell it. When they bother studying it - it not only does not help any number of people but it also harms a good percentage of clients. I don't have a clue how therapy was supposed to be useful. I talked -nothing. I asked what I was supposed to be doing - the woman said she didn't know. I asked how it was supposed to work-the woman said she didn't know. So finally, I just said screw it. I'm much happier not dealing with a therapist. I do enjoy suing them on behalf of people they have screwed over.

I've never understood why people go along with this idea that therapist never fail. Therapists blame the victim. Other people who think it worked for them blame the victim. Nice work if you can get it. That makes therapist not have to be responsible for anything. Don't believe them - it is not true that the client is always the problem

Originally Posted by stopdog

Blame the victim is often the knee jerk response by therapists and their acolytes. I believe that therapy often doesn't work because and it is not the fault of the client. Those people really oversell it. When they bother studying it - it not only does not help any number of people but it also harms a good percentage of clients. I don't have a clue how therapy was supposed to be useful. I talked -nothing. I asked what I was supposed to be doing - the woman said she didn't know. I asked how it was supposed to work-the woman said she didn't know. So finally, I just said screw it. I'm much happier not dealing with a therapist. I do enjoy suing them on behalf of people they have screwed over.

I've never understood why people go along with this idea that therapist never fail. Therapists blame the victim. Other people who think it worked for them blame the victim. Nice work if you can get it. That makes therapist not have to be responsible for anything. Don't believe them - it is not true that the client is always the problem

This is one of the things I like about this place - there are only a few unrelenting pro-therapy posters. Most people discuss the shortcomings of the therapy relationship, of their therapists, of not being treated respectfully and sadly of the damage caused by therapy. Most people are supportive of other clients and post in support of the client's experience, far from therapist acolytes. Most people are aware enough to engage with the nuance of the work. Thankfully, I am not sure I have ever seen someone here say that therapists never fail. Equally, clients have autonomy and, as adults, we have some control over our progress and engagement with therapy.