Couch 244: Great Expectations

Happy birthday RTerroni! I also welcome you to the 40 and over club

Oh how many times that happened to me... well, usually as I was driving home from the session.

Holding it, and thinking more about it between sessions instead of emailing right away, may produce even more insights about it before your next session. Of course, I can totally understand if you end up emailing anyway; goodness knows I did that more times than I can count!

Yeah for me its having it taken away. Wow which is the MAIN thing that grinds me when people here complain that their t "took something away"! I always want to scream, they werent giving you anything, wtf are you talking about? But my mother ALWAYS "took it away" whenever i cleaned my room by really meanly saying, "now lets see if you can keep it that way!" Not that she ever lifted a finger to help or teach me. I guess i never had something for long enough to really miss it or mourn it.

I still consider my NYGiants mug that t gave me, "his". Where in my emotional brain did it come from, when i actually asked him if/when i had to give it back to him? The only thing i could hold onto is food or poop, and there were issues with that all my life, werent there?!

Sincere question: why is it wrong to email T if something comes up? Especially if emailing is something you're able to do? If it was anyone else in your life and something came up, wouldn't you contact them? Sure you might have to wait for a response (which with therapists might not be until the next session). But I really am curious why it seems the general consensus on the forums is to not email? Like when I posted about L and got told I need to learn to hold things myself, why is it wrong to want the person who caused you pain to work through it with you? We're social animals and need people. Well most of us anyways... I just don't understand why reaching out is a "bad" thing.

Please don't criticize me personally! I just really want to understand other's perspectives.

Hey Scarlet,

I don't think it's 'wrong' necessarily.
I think there's an urge to exercise caution around here because you might not get the response you're hoping for.

I know I've sent emails to R before where I haven't been entirely clear about what I needed and therefore not received it. That is entirely on me.

Sending an email and waiting for a response can cause further anxiety if you're already dealing with something.

It's not wrong to want the therapist to help you work through something, and it can be helpful to let the sessions be the container.

I'm not sure whether that's helpful at all, but hope there might be something useful in there.

Take care,

Lost

That's a good idea, thanks! And maybe I can add to it if I have further thoughts on it.

Oh, it often happens to me when I'm driving home as well. Or later that evening.

I do think I'll likely have more thoughts on it. Today's discussion stemmed from writing about something that happened years ago (for a memoir assignment), so maybe writing on it more will help, too. I think it's helping fill in some pieces, too.

Yes, I get that, like she took away your accomplishment by saying that. I hate how things like that can haunt us for the rest of our lives.

Not just haunt. Truly stunt. Other people build on their successes. I blow mine up.

Thanks fof helping me state this.

I have always heard therapists say that their goal is to work themselves out of a job. Meaning, they are doing their job right if the client is improving and able to handle life's ups and downs on their own, using their own sources being it skills, friends or family and not them. So I guess besides the possible negative impact listed in an earlier response, some people are trying to push themselves a bit out of their comfort zone and prove to themselves and/or their T that they are getting better, the T is doing a good job, and they are able to handle more on their own. Obviously there are times when someone is in crisis, but for something that can wait, the goal is to let it wait.

Kind of like raising a kid. The parents job is to train their kid to be independent and take care of themselves. If the kid is still coming to them to tie their shoes for example when they are 10 years old, the parent should be wondering what is wrong. If they enjoy the attention and helplessness of the kid then their is something wrong with them and they are not doing the kid any favors by allowing the to rely on the parent forever.

Personally, my grandmother was like that with my dad and it was a sick relationship. Sorry, I digress.

I don't think it's wrong in general. I would likely contact most anyone else in my life. And with other T's, I might have contacted them.

This is mostly Dr. T-specific. I know he generally doesn't like email, but sees it as part of his job, so he does it (I really wish he'd never told me that!)

If I was in distress about something, whether it was something he'd said in session, something I was thinking about as a result of what we discussed (it was a heavy topic), or something going on in my outside life, like with H or D, then I'm sure he'd be fine with my emailing. But for something like this, I could see him asking (or thinking, if not asking), "Could that have just waited?" And then I would feel like I'd done something wrong, and we'd have a conflict where we didn't need to have one. Or, he might have responded with something that didn't feel satisfying to me (or waited longer than usual because it was non-urgent), then I'd be distressed for no reason.

There's also the fact that he charges if I send a really long one or send a certain number in a short amount of time--I'm actually pleasantly surprised that he didn't charge me for one I sent two Fridays ago, as I'd sent him one a week for the couple weeks before that, too. So I'm trying to save the emails for when they feel more necessary/urgent.

All that being said, those are Dr. T things. I know L is good with emails, and I think they're basically unlimited, right?

I think what people meant in terms of needing to be able to hold things yourself is that we can't always rely on someone to reply--particularly in the time frame or way (like what they say) that we hope for. (Particularly for reasons that have nothing to do with you, like maybe she's sick or she lost power or had a family emergency.) So it can be good to have ways to deal with it that don't require hearing back from the other person.

I don't think it's wrong to want to be able to work things out with the person who caused you pain. My natural instinct is to want to resolve any conflict with someone as quickly as possible, for example, because it doesn't feel safe to me. But I've come to learn that it can be OK to sit with it for a bit--how sometimes, in my case at least, it can actually be better because I have time to collect my thoughts and reflect on what's going on. Plus, it can help for the other person to have time/space sometimes as well--it can be that way with my H, for example.

So reaching out isn't a bad thing in general, in my opinion. But it's good to be able to sit with things if needed, too. Or at least to feel you're able to do that, if that makes sense.

Sorry for the novel!

I don't really think it's wrong. I mean, I used to email L all the time. I didn't mean to suggest in my response to LT that it was wrong. Just musing that sometimes 'holding' the thing, whatever it is, and thinking more about it can produce more insights. But that was in no way indicating I think emailing T is wrong. I did say something to L while we were talking about me stopping therapy again recently - I said I was glad that I had stopped feeling that desperate need to email her, and that she was probably glad too. She said she didn't feel that way about it, that "it's part of the job". I was glad to hear her say that, for 2 reasons one because my emails really weren't a bother even though i worried that they were, and, as I used to so struggle with wanting more than the therapy relationship, for such a long time I wished we could be friends. Goddess am I glad I got over that at long last. Only took 11 years. Ha. Boy did I get off track there.

Agreed, and you said this much more succinctly than me!

Yeah, I sort of understated it there. Glad I helped you put it into words.

Yeah haunt implies there is a structure in place TO haunt, to lurk around corners. I got taken to ground zero every dam time. Nothing left. Nothing there.

i totally spaced my coda meeting yesterday afternoon - I was merrily crocheting away while watching episodes of that tv show "American Greed" and did not notice the time at all! oopsie! i need to get caught up and re-read the step we were on last night.

I'm at a place right now where I can usually see the benefits of how keeping things mostly in session helps keep them from spilling out all over the place into my real life. There is something to be said for going to a particular (unpleasant) place with my T and then leaving it all behind and inaccessible after my session. That said, I went through a very long time where I had much more contact with my T and it was an important part of my process (learning to reach out, to feel cared for and understood when I was distressed, to feel like I mattered, etc). And I still do contact my T occasionally when I know that she can be helpful or when I'm super upset. Maybe I'll go back to needing more/different contact with her, or maybe I won't. I'm trying to stay open and curious rather than trying to force a particular way of behaving.

I like the parent/child analogy, that a parent's job is to be available a lot at first (hello night feedings!) and then to slowly back off as development unfolds and the kid needs less intense care. Part of parenting is being in tune enough to see these shifts happening and to adapt appropriately, albeit probably imperfectly. So I think it's fine and probably even a good thing to contact L since that's a way she's willing to work. And over time it's likely that your feelings on when and whether to contact her will evolve. You may find that you're more able to handle things on your own, that you know that she's there if you need her but that you can also rely on your own internal and external resources. I think you can feel more stable within yourself when you know you can provide good things to yourself. So it's not really a goal to not "need" her but rather a consequence of truly internalizing the nurturing and the connection.

Now I want to go watch American Greed...

Thanks EM! I actually have gotten better in her contacting me. She took away daily extened reminders after Covid settled down because she didn't have time for them anymore. (It's still a sore spot). She did continue to do daily short reminders up until a couple of months ago when I asked her to stop. I didn't need them anymore. I 'knew' she was there. I didn't need proof. Plus I am still allowed to write her "are you there" emails whenever I need to. I did asked her to do short daily reminders again since the rupture, but that I'll probably end tomorrow since she's back from her trip.

She is in a sense reparenting me, and I do see her as a mother-figure. So the parent/child analogy also resonates with me. And she says the goal is not independence, but interdependence.

I am comfortable with the contact that I do have with L. We have a routine, one that works for both of us.

Happy birthday.

The world is a better place with you in it.

Hope you did something nice for yourself.

In terms of not reaching out and choosing to sit with feelings, realisations, discomfort, etc, I think what Artie said about allowing for the chance for further things to evolve is really important. I think reaching out can hinder that kind of self exploration. Whilst we are social animals, we are also individuals. There is a Gestalt (maybe other therapies too) idea about only being able to come into meaningful relation once we have realised ourselves as a whole. Obviously this is a process and no doubt there are steps and stages to this realisation. A wish for merger and a reliance on the other seems natural and understandable if you have many unmet childhood needs because crucial developmental stages were missed. However, as adults we are independent, albeit an independence within relationship. Independence is linked to essential aspects of our being such as agency and identity. If we don't allow ourselves the time and space to experience and live alone, our capacities to relate become limited.

My cat has been euthanized this afternoon. My partner is really upset and I am not. I cared about him and I am sad for my partner, but I don't really feel bothered. Things like this make me feel really heartless and like I am not very human. I told my best friend and she said, "Oh no, what will I tell the girls?! They really loved him!" The girls are her children, we are really close. I didn't even think about it or realise that other people would care (I told her within a different context with reference to something else). I often feel like I am roleplaying relationships and having an emotional self. I know it's because of my childhood neglect and trauma and yada yada but still. Humph.

My sister offered to pay for my sessions with the Trauma T.

-She offered last week Thursday, but I had something to prep for on Friday.
-She offered Tuesday today, but I was already seeing Fin in the morning. Didn't want two sessions in the same day.
-She offered tomorrow 5.30pm, but I already booked a dental appointment for 4pm last week and wouldn't want to rush back with travel.

If I'm being honest I'm also just not feeling it anymore and don't want to see her anymore.

Hugs, Lemoncake. Doing what feels right to you is important too. I hope Fin was helpful today.

We had a heck of a thunderstorm last night, our power was out for about 2 hours and I was sitting up watching the lightening show out the window. The thunder was rattling the windows, it felt like the worst of the storm was right above my house. We needed the rain; it is good that monsoon has arrived in the desert.