[ECHOES]

I guess I have been guilty of dropping bombs.
You know those last minute items we bring up, sometimes even after the session has been claimed as being over.

I don't mean to. I really don't.
I think.
Who knows whar our unconcious is up to, huh?! lol

I know she's extended sessions a few times. I though it was because she didn't have a patient after me, and she just wanted to and ... well... because I'm so darn special you see.

So last night as she was writing out my payment receipt I mentioned something that I know is important but I also know I can neglect to bring things up after a certain amount of time has passed. I'll convince myself it isn't important any longer.
So she doesn't respond right away. Then she looks at me an uncomfortable half a minute, hesitates, and just says "I can't help but notice that you're bringing up something very important at the end of the session."
ouch! ow ow OW!!!
I'm sorry!! I didn't mean to!

Honestly, I don't always know that something is important--do you?
Or maybe I'm fooling myself, I don't know. Her response shook me up.
She could have acknowledged what I said and then said it was important and we'll start with that next time. *ECHOES pouting*

But I think I have been doing this a lot lately, last minute bombs.
A way to not let go is what I think it is.
I saw this in my mother--she would spend hours visiting with someone at home, then walk them to the door and keep them there for at least a half hour, yakking away, holding them there. I don't like seeing it in me.

Darn, now I have to sit with this all week. This feeling she is perturbed, that I am doing something to challenge her boundaries, and that I am just .. like... mo-ther.
UGH!!

But I'll talk to T about it next Thursday.
Maybe at the verrrrry end of the session. lol

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

Darn, now I have to sit with this all week.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I HATE THIS FEELING! This is where in a perfect world I would have 1 therapy session at my regular time in the afternoon and then another follow-up session at like 3 am the next morning where the real therapy discussion and healing would happen.

[Mouse_]

Thats a long wait.

[gimmeice]

((((((((((( Echoes ))))))))))))))))
My T calls that doorknob confessions and I've done that quite a bit, it always throws me off to have it pointed out to me what I am doing. I hate the feeling of having to sit with it all week.

[Perna]

I wouldn't feel bad about it; I think she just wanted to make sure she brought it to your attention; it's a very good piece of information!

I often experienced my T as doing that; saying something significant just as I was leaving! You could have thought of her response like that but instead you're castigating yourself :-) You say you've done it before, why hasn't she mentioned it before?

I think though that it's neither thing; neither us holding on and unconsciously doing it or one's T trying to give us something to work with between times but a more "normal"/continuous thing. I don't think there's any difference between the last 5 minutes of session and any other 5 minutes in your week; it's all your life and deserves respect/paying attention to. Behavior can't change until it is noticed. I had a hard time learning that and getting use to the long period between doing something "wrong" and catching it that gradually gets shorter and shorter until, hopefully, you catch it before you do it :-) I still remember learning to notice when there would be either my bombs or my T's bombs right as we were winding up and dealing with mine so they didn't explode at some other time in my week or responding to T's as I was walking out the door so she'd know and I knew it was important to me. And that's the whole point of therapy I think, recognizing when something important to you is taking place.

[Kiya]

((((((((echoes))))))))

yeah, i have done the last minute bomb thing...
sorry you're pouting!!!
I, too, didn't know they were important.
but it will be ok....ok? good awarenesses!

[MINIME]

I love the part where you say I wil talkto her about it next week, at the end of the session. LOL Good sense of humor I love it. It helps take away some of the guilt or whatever when you can joke about it and stuff. ((HUGS)) it will be ok I promise.

[pachyderm]

The title of this post got my attention...

(((((Echoes))))),
An incident just like this one, called a doorknob confession, LOL, just happened to me with T.

I said something at the very end of the session and he replied like yours did. I took the comment in a negative context. The next week, I asked my T about this and he said that a lot of times when a patient is anxious about talking about a subject, she waits until the last minute to say something. The patient is at first anxious about bringing it but at the end is anxious about not having brought it up now that it is the end of the session. What your T might have been relaying to you is to notice how much anxiety this issue causes you. I hope this helps, Echoes. I hate waiting in between sessions with a passion. And, of course, I have to wait until next Tues. as I don't go twice a week anymore. Uggghhhhhhh. All of this is so frustrating. Take care!

OMG, Echoes... imagine you DID bring this issue up at the very end of the next session? Hahaha.

Seriously though, you never do know what your unconscious is up to. Usually, it is up to protecting us, and as a result, knows that it is "safe" to release things right before it's time to run out the door.

It is interesting what you said about YOU thinking that what you brought up was not that important, but your T thinking that it was. I wonder if this is an issue of validation? I know that I tend to invalidate my problems and lots of times T will make a bigger deal out of something than I do! I will say, "What's the big deal about this?" only to later realize that I am completely minimizing and invalidating my own problem. I know that I do it because I have always existed alongside a "don't worry about it, it'll go away" type mentality. I guess because people around me didn't always take my "stuff" seriously, I learned not to, either.

I know that what your T said caused a big "ouch"-- but, I also admire that she was so direct with you. A good T will point out what they see-- rather than just saying, "Oh, we will open up with this next week," she pointed out a pattern that is very much worth exploring.

I know how much the waiting sucks. In the meantime, think about why it was a bigger deal to T than to you. It was probably a bigger deal to you than you think-- or else you would have brought it up at the beginning of the session!

[MissCharlotte]

Hi Echoes,

Yeah, I have dropped bombs. I imagine everyone does eventually. In fact, even T's do!

And I definitely don't know always that something is important or I go in the opposite direction and place too much of an emphasis on something. It's quite sweet that you don't want to let go.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
his feeling she is perturbed, that I am doing something to challenge her boundaries,

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Is this a familiar feeling?

xoxoxox

Peace

[chaotic13]

I think for a while I was dropping bombs and remotely detonating them via email. I would go to the session, not raise the issue when I should have, then later send the information via an email. My T quickly countered that tactic by whipping out the email and starting the next session with it. It's been a very effective counter-measure.

[Simcha]

Hi ECHOES,

Maybe your being too self critical...
Your T didn't sound like he was being critical of you, but just doesn't want to get into something really heavy at the end of a session as it's not good for you.

It's rather normal for running over time for various reasons, even if a person doesn't have problems in respecting boundaries.

Sometimes in my sessions, it can take me awhile into session to start to feel comfortable enough to discuss the difficult topic.
This is due to the disorders I'm in therapy for in the first place--anxiety disorders and ADHD. Either I'm too anxious, or my mind is unfocused from the ADHD (or both) and my T can't get me back on track for some reason that day. I've been known to completely derail more than one therapy session if he's unable to stop me and redirect.

Every once in awhile this results in inadvertently discussing a heavier topic toward the end of session, in which case my T makes sure that I don't run more than 5 minutes over. If it was really serious, he'd recognize that and deal with the more immediate problem.

When I first started getting comfortable with my T when I began therapy, I realized that "oh yeah, I need to open up more and actually discuss the problems." So...I'd touch on a volatile subject, and when it got too heavy and pushed into deeper territory, I'd actually INTENTIONALLY try to derail the whole thing...T was on to me pretty darn quick though (which is actually a good thing).

All sorts of reasons why the session can go over and/or get derailed.

Really though, what T who has specialty training in adult ADHD keeps a cannister of brightly colored Tinker Toys right in front of the patient...

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Simcha said:
Really though, what T who has specialty training in adult ADHD keeps a cannister of brightly colored Tinker Toys right in front of the patient...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">OMG, I would totally love that! I am a very fidgety person, and as it is, I "play" with the objects that T has out on his couchside table right next to me. I have wondered occasionally if this annoys him. He never shows it. He has all these "found"objects such as rocks and other stuff and I like to pick them up and rub them in my hands, stroke them, etc. I especially do this when I am a bit nervous or having a hard time with a topic, so it is also a "non-verbal" way I communicate to him some of my anxiety. I think if he had tinker toys, I would build a large and complicated structure. It would be really engaging to me, and I might lose all interest in therapy and our conversation, lol. Simcha, do you play with the tinker toys?

ECHOES, I hope you are doing OK. When I read what you wrote, it didn't seem to me that what your T said necessarily meant that you needed to apologize or be sorry for what you had done. It's common as others have written here to bring up topics at the last minute. "She could have acknowledged what I said and then said it was important and we'll start with that next time. " --Do you know why you need her to say that? If the topic is one you want to discuss, could you be the one to say, "oh, I know it's late, let's talk about that first thing next time." That is communicating what you want and also indicating you do respect the frame of therapy. ECHOES, the doorknob thing is so very common--does it really mean you are becoming like your mother? I think that feeling is definitely worth exploring!

I'm not sure if you have challenged T's boundaries here, but i know it does hurt when I feel I have stepped on my T's boundaries, but that is what happens in real life too. We inadvertantly step on people's boundaries, they let us know, we take a step back, and do better next time, and the relationship grows. With my T, if he lets me know I have butted up against a boundary, I just try to think of it as new knowledge about him and don't take it personally. I try to shrug it off and not get down on myself. He is trying to get me to do that with other people in my life, so the practice on him is useful.

[foreverlost]

Dropping bombs has been about the only way I open up much, but I do it by e-mail, after a session. My t actually loves it because It's my only indication of trust, and we can open discussion with that next time. It makes it a little easier for me to talk if the cards are on the table, so to speak. So, I think many of us drop bombs, in one way or another, that are actually pretty useful to therapy. It's sort of an approach-avoidance thing for me.
Be well...

[Kiya]

same here, foreverlost... it's all about the email.

[Fuzzybear]

Whoa, my T would NOT be happy if I dropped a bomb by email. I mean, that is not really my style... I need to do things like that face-to-face. For those of you who drop bombs email-style-- how do your T's react?

[Kiya]

"For those of you who drop bombs email-style-- how do your T's react? "

T brings in the printed email and says "we need to talk about this." I usually don't think much of what ever it is i brought up, try to cover it in about 2 minutes or less and drop it. My current t holds the paper all session and keeps redirecting me to it throughout the hour until she's satisfied.

[Simcha]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sunrise said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Simcha said:
Really though, what T who has specialty training in adult ADHD keeps a cannister of brightly colored Tinker Toys right in front of the patient...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">OMG, I would totally love that! I am a very fidgety person, and as it is, I "play" with the objects that T has out on his couchside table right next to me. I have wondered occasionally if this annoys him. He never shows it. He has all these "found"objects such as rocks and other stuff and I like to pick them up and rub them in my hands, stroke them, etc. I especially do this when I am a bit nervous or having a hard time with a topic, so it is also a "non-verbal" way I communicate to him some of my anxiety. I think if he had tinker toys, I would build a large and complicated structure. It would be really engaging to me, and I might lose all interest in therapy and our conversation, lol. Simcha, do you play with the tinker toys?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I really WANT to play with the Tinker Toys!! He has told me I can if I want to, but I would probably build a large and complicated structure also, derailing therapy on him once again. He says the Tinker Toys are used for certain neuropsychological tests... I think I'll screw with him next time and ask him if he plays with them in between clients--Yeah right T, you have them for yourself. Then my T would have to pick up after me too LOL--I like to have something to play with for distraction too sunrise. Fun.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
ECHOES, I hope you are doing OK. When I read what you wrote, it didn't seem to me that what your T said necessarily meant that you needed to apologize or be sorry for what you had done. It's common as others have written here to bring up topics at the last minute. "She could have acknowledged what I said and then said it was important and we'll start with that next time. " --Do you know why you need her to say that? If the topic is one you want to discuss, could you be the one to say, "oh, I know it's late, let's talk about that first thing next time." That is communicating what you want and also indicating you do respect the frame of therapy. ECHOES, the doorknob thing is so very common--does it really mean you are becoming like your mother? I think that feeling is definitely worth exploring!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I think as long as ECHOES is cognizant of herself like she seems to be, it's impossible to become like her mother.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I'm not sure if you have challenged T's boundaries here, but i know it does hurt when I feel I have stepped on my T's boundaries, but that is what happens in real life too. We inadvertantly step on people's boundaries, they let us know, we take a step back, and do better next time, and the relationship grows. With my T, if he lets me know I have butted up against a boundary, I just try to think of it as new knowledge about him and don't take it personally. I try to shrug it off and not get down on myself. He is trying to get me to do that with other people in my life, so the practice on him is useful.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
REALLY EXCELLENT POINT SUNRISE, about not getting down on yourself just for inadvertently either crossing someone's boundary, or (more often than not) simply BELIEVING that we have stepped over someones boundary. Maybe ECHOES only thinks she did something really terrible, when in reality it really wasn't anything to fuss over at all. That's pretty common in people who have too much anxiety and are afraid of making "mistakes" in the fear that they won't be accepted by the other person anymore. Really though, if you think about it, that's one big fat cognitive distortion isn't it?

Lets analyze this:
"I made a mistake, therefore they won't love/like me anymore."
Nope, this doesn't fly with reality, so it must be a cognitive distortion. All or nothing thinking is always irrational.
If it were me ECHOES and sunrise, and I made a mistake with someone, and they really did respond like you fear, by rejection--- I'd say bloody good riddance then!!!! Who wants a person like that around them? No way Jose.

I don't think ECHOES T is really thinking like her anxiety is telling her to feel though. I think if she tells T that she apologizes if she seemed demanding or what not to show T that she was not blindly self absorbed (I'm sure T doesn't think ECHOES is blindly self absorbed anyway), and then start into the rest of the session.

[JimWriter]

I don't think Ive ever made one of those doorknob confessions, but I think maybe your T should have said something like "You know, I would lkke to talk about it now but i have another patient. I'll make a note in my chart and we'll pick it up next time."

[ECHOES]

Thank you for all your replies!


I'm really doing okay with this. I no longer think she is annoyed, I just felt that short awkward moment that felt like forever where she decided to call it what it was, a doorknob confession--Thanks gimmeice, I couldn't think of the right term for it when I was
posting.

The moment she called it what it is, I knew she was right. I even knew I had been doing it but was unable to stop. I have done it exactly as it's called--my hand on the doorknob, my back to her, making a comment that really belonged in session. I have cringed
each time I did it. I think because I had my back to her somehow I thought she that wasn't noticing or that I was getting away with it.

So here it is, out in the open, and I actually look forward to exploring it with her.
I no longer worry about the boundary aspect of it, although I think it applies because I know my motive is to keep the session from being over. It used to be when she would say "Well that's all the time we have today." I would just whine "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
This hour goes too fast!". Now I have moved on to trying to actually manipulate it. And I know from my reaction of delight when she's let me go into 'overtime', that this is intentional in some way and a kind of test of some kind.
Am I important enough to extend the hour? Do I matter enough?

Also, the subject I brought up... I did think it was important. But just because I think it is doesn't mean T would think it is. And it was a kind of a "Look at me" comment--something I did that I thought was positive and I wanted her praise to take with me.
So, Pink I think I was fooling myself even in my post. Defensive, I assume: if I call it not important and then I don't get the praise I wanted, then I can't be hurt or I won't have to show or admit that I'm hurt.. I do think it was important for her to "notice" this as I'm still learning trust and getting comfortable. I also love that it was in the moment rather than filed away for next session.

MissC, although I'm no longer worried that she is perturbed, yes you are quite right. I often think afterward that she is perturbed about something and it causes me great stress between sessions. It can grow and grow and become quite montstrous. The hesitation, the serious look she gave me, made me think of being young and how my mother liked to control with dirty, nasty, angry looks when she couldn't spew her nasty words. (Grabbing the upper arm and digging fingernails in was a tactic too.)

Simcha, my T invited me to do the sand tray with her but so far I haven't. Her room has toys along one shelf and just last session I mentioned a shelf had been fixed. I often make a comment about the toys. She's asked if I want to play with them. I feel silly, but I do. Mostly, I just want to do something with T.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to read and to relate and reply and offer me

backatch!