[AllyH88]

I should mention that I'm not currently seeing a therapist (not until the Fall) so I'm kind of in limbo at the moment.

I've been thinking a lot about my 'old' pdoc (I haven't seen him in a while) and what was said in the few sessions where we saw each other. Basically, I've been ruminating over everything. Did I say the right thing? Was I able to convey the depth of the pain I feel?

I remember once he asked why I felt I hadn't accomplished the things I wanted. Do you know what I answered? Money! Yeah, it's sort of a reason, but at the heart of it is that I hate myself. I think I'm an ugly, disgusting loser who doesn't deserve any happiness in life. Those are the real reasons. But I didn't say that. I never said that.

Do t's and pdocs know how you're really feeling if you don't spell it out in words? I feel like he must have thought I was pathetic, or worse yet, faking it (I'm not. I am in a lot of psychological pain, I'm just not able to be very emotional just because I happen to be in a therapy session that day). He was very neutral towards me and because of all the feelings I've been having recently I assume he was this way, not because he's a professional, but because he must have thought I didn't deserve his help and was just wasting his time.

Now that I don't have anyone to speak to professionally, I feel like a lot of problems are building up and it's hard to see straight (without the depression talking).

The clincher is that I recently saw this acquaintance at a get together recently, who is a social worker in a psychiatric hospital, and she referred to her patients as 'crazy' and the other people at the party kept referring to her job as taking care of people who are 'f***ed up' and 'nutjobs', so I'm especially feeling ashamed of myself right now and wondering if I did the right thing by seeking treatment. I should have just kept everything to myself.

Since I'm not feeling well, it's been hard to organize my thoughts, so I apologize if I'm not being very coherent.

[ECHOES]

Your thoughts were very organized and coherent, Ally.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Do t's and pdocs know how you're really feeling if you don't spell it out in words?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> No, they really need our words so they can understand. It's hard and can take time, but it's a good thing to work on trying to find the words to describe the depth of our pain. Just like there would be no way of knowing these thoughts of yours you expressed here in your post without reading your words, T's need to hear your words.

What a shame that your friend chose a field for which she seems to have no compassion, or does not have the courage to let her compassion show in an adverse setting. Maybe she is finding her way yet too.

Those at the get together have opinions and behaviors that can be accepted or rejected. Their prejudices are theirs and are about them, not about you.

I doubt that keeping everything to yourself is of any help to you or makes you feel better. It's a good thing to seek treatment--it's a gift you give compassionately to yourself. It sounds like you're missing therapy and will be glad to get back to it in the fall. There is no shame in wanting to feel better, wanting to accomplish what we wish to accomplish, wanting the life we want. Seeking help is very pro-active, very self-caring, very intelligent, and courageous. We're lucky to see we don't have to stay stuck, stagnant, feeling unwell.

Go toward compassion, be curious about you and other people, and life!

[skeksi]

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What a shame that your friend chose a field for which she seems to have no compassion, or does not have the courage to let her compassion show in an adverse setting.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I think ECHOES makes an important point here. Your friend's behavior is not representative of the field as a whole. Whether she truly meant it, or felt self-conscious and obligated to separate herself from her clients, most therapists do not feel that way. If they did, they would choose another job.

I understand how hard it is to go through therapy, and it often feels like it is the harder choice. However, I also believe that knowing ourselves better is the key to accepting ourselves and being happy with ourselves, so it is a difficult but valuable journey. One well worth undertaking.

Take care of you, okay?

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AllyH88 said:

Do t's and pdocs know how you're really feeling if you don't spell it out in words?


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Unfortunately, no! Sometimes, sitting with T, I *feel* like it should be SO obvious that I feel a certain way - but he really doesn't know what I'm feeling or thinking unless I tell him. Sometimes if it's too hard I write it down - but I do try to make sure he knows.

I think a huge part of therapy is the process of learning to tell someone exactly how we feel and exactly what we need. It gets easier over time. Or at least I hope it does

Please don't let your friend's comments affect whether or not you get the help you want/need. None of your friends need to know if you're in therapy, it's something you would do for YOU.

Good luck to you!

[Kiya]

(((((((((ally)))))))))
good posts above - need say no more than that.
=) kiya

[pachyderm]

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ECHOES said:
Your thoughts were very organized and coherent, Ally.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Do t's and pdocs know how you're really feeling if you don't spell it out in words?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
No, they really need our words so they can understand.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

[Simcha]

Hi AllyH88,

No, T's and PDOC's don't know about things you don't tell them, including emotions, unless they are prominently displayed (like crying).
At best, they might be able to tell if you were uncomfortable or sad when responding to certain questions, or a good T can tell something might be wrong by body language, but even so, they won't understand why unless you tell them. Psychologists are trained to be excellent observers, but you really have to open up with them to get anything accomplished. It's a little bit intimidating and even scary at first, but if you are with a good T who you have built trust with it's a good experience.

Your acquaintance who is a psychiatric social worker is immature. I wouldn't take anything into account as to what she said while drinking at the party. She's not right, and the word "crazy" doesn't mean anything in psychiatry, which is why it isn't used there. I think you should challenge your acquaintances belief, and go from there. Don't take it personal, because I'm sure if she had her wits about her she wouldn't have said anything that could potentially hurt someone.
Anyone who uses those terms or thinks that way who works in psychiatry/psychology in a professional capacity... well, isn't very professional. If they outwardly use those terms, my opinion is they need to be reported.
I'm sorry your having a hard time right now.
It will get better. Don't be so hard on yourself, and don't worry about your acquaintance who probably needs to see a psychologist herself if she's that insecure. Take care, and I hope you find a T you can work with!

[RACEKA]

You talked about T's being observers. Can you or anyone explain what T's observe? How do they know your uncomfortable with a question? What kind of body language to we show?

I never did understand this.

Thanks.

[sunrise]

I routinely show certain body language to my T intentionally to signal him what I am feeling that I am unable to say or when I don't want to use words. I know my body language well enough to use it this way. It's a very effective means of communication when the other person understands your "language." It doesn't work at all with people who are dolts, lol. Of course, there is unconscious and unintentional body language too.

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RACEKA wrote:
How do they know your uncomfortable with a question? What kind of body language to we show?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Different people might show discomfort in different ways. To discover your own language, next time you are uncomfortable, "listen" to and "watch" your body, breathing, speech, posture, etc. I bet you know already.

[Dinah]

I know I have certain things I do when I'm angry, or ashamed, or hurt. I know that in many therapy circumstances I have a decided head tilt with my ear towards my right shoulder. I think he reads that correctly as a sign that everything's ok between us. Or that when I get angry, I look sharply to the right. Or when I'm ashamed, I look down. Or that when I feel overwhelmed my eyelids droop sleepily. I can't say that I communicate with him on purpose this way. In fact, sometimes I wish I had an override button, because I'd rather keep things more hidden. But I find myself doing them anyway.

But he's got his own "tells". One of my favorites is that when he realizes he's feeling irritated or upset or uncomfortable, he puts himself in an extremely relaxed position. Far more relaxed than when he actually feels relaxed. He also has that skin tone that flushes easily. He fidgets when he feels sleepy. And I swear, although he disagrees, that when he's feeling extreme emotion, he drawls. And those are just the ones I can describe.

I think maybe they have a general knowledge of mannerisms frequently used. But then they have to figure out how they apply to a specific client. For the first long while in therapy he was constantly interpreting my body language to mean something other than what I was actually feeling. But now he knows me much better. He no longer thinks that if I cross my arms, I'm feeling protective. He knows I just tend to cross my arms, and whether it means more than that depends a lot on context.

[Simcha]

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RACEKA said:
You talked about T's being observers. Can you or anyone explain what T's observe? How do they know your uncomfortable with a question? What kind of body language to we show?

I never did understand this.

Thanks.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Aside from being a good observer, T's are trained to be really good listeners, which isn't too different from observation.

Usually a good T can pick up on subtle changes and reactions you have to comments and questions by the T. Body language can vary in response per person and isn't always standard, most of the time T's will be able to pick up on even the most subtle of body movements. T's become really good at this when they get to know you better over time.

Try paying close attention to how you respond to questions, comments, and negative emotional situations. When you have anxiety, do you have any particular thing you do, like tap your foot perhaps? Play with your hair? When you feel defensive about something, do you cross your legs and maybe cross your arms? Do you sit closer to your T when you feel comfortable, and further away when you don't? A lot of things we just do almost unconsciously, out of habit.

I know my T pays close attention to my body language, because he'll comment on it sometimes... but that makes me really self-conscious!

We did have kind of a therapy breakthrough when he pointed out that sometimes when we're getting close to a difficult topic, I'll suddenly kind of raise my chin defiantly and move on to something else. He helped me notice when I was doing it, and asked me if I could stay with the difficult topic a little longer - and we've been able to talk about the topic a little since then.

He'll also comment sometimes about how I'm sitting. I always take off my shoes and sit with my knees pulled up in front of me on the couch - and kind of peek over my knees at him. Sometimes, I'll stretch my legs out straight and lean against the arm of the couch, and he'll say something like "you seem relaxed:.

Honestly, it makes me kind of nervous that he's reading me like that. I'm not used to people playing such close attention to me - and it makes me wonder what else he's seeing that he's not saying?!?!

[pachyderm]

Non-verbal communication:

This morning my cat Whitie obviously understood that I was planning to open the door and go outside, when I started putting on sandals. And I understood that she understood, by observing her actions. Not a word was spoken by either party.

From our earliest moments as babies we are able to get and send non-verbal messages about our internal states to each other. We would be in big trouble as a species if that were not the case.

T's who refuse to consider any kinds of communications other than verbal cut themselves off from some of the richest means of conveying meaning. Indeed, to me, someone demanding words-only themselves sends a (non-spoken) message that they do not want to hear the messages we are sending non-verbally. That does not bode well for any therapy.

Although I did not realize it at the time, you may have noticed that my previous reply contained no words! Yet I think anyone could understand quite well something of what I was trying to say. I think it is no accident that many of the smilies here on Psych Central are representations of people's faces...

It is said that one of the problems communicating on the Internet is that non-verbal cues are absent. So there are drawbacks to relying on words only.

I think many of us here have been taught or forced not to verbalize what our thoughts and feelings are, so that the only way we can express them in therapy at first is by non-verbal behavior which happens without our even knowing it. It seems to me essential that a therapist makes herself aware of these messages. I do think that being obliged to put our feelings into words helps us understand what they are, though.

[ECHOES]

(((( RACEKA ))))

You sound concerned about this in your post. T's are trained to observe us to help us all the more. Observing us for is another means they have of taking good care of us. It can't take the place of words, but it can enhance and clarify what's being talked about. If my affect doesn't match my level of comfort/discomfort, then that might tell T there is more to talk about yet.

It's a casual kind of observation, not critical or judgemental.

One example I can think of is I was telling T about talking to someone about going to see the symphony. I had never mentioned my interest in music before or how much I love to go listen to symphonies and orchestras. She smiled at one point and remarked that she didn't know I like classical music and that she'd never seen me so animated. This didn't require any covert or deep observation, but her noticing (another word for observation that makes it seem more benign and shows the observer's interest) connected us and helped her know more about me.

[sunrise]

I like how my T is such a good observer. His noticing my non-verbal communication is another way he shows he cares for me. When he comments on what I am feeling, or my mood, based on the non-verbals, it makes me feel more connected, and like he notices and cares. This is in contrast to my H, who is a dolt, and doesn't get non-verbal, much less verbal communication. It feels really good to be around a man who notices what is going on with me! It's healing.

I am also a good observer and I know my T so well now, that I know his communication nuances too. I know when he is appalled, sad, surprised, hurt, feels rejected, etc. He has experienced all these in reaction to what I said. The "appalled" we discussed and handled OK. The "rejected" he would not admit to, but hey, that's OK, maybe it wouldn't have been therapeutic for him to acknowledge it. I didn't push on that. I think he was just trying to be professional and make it about me. This level of communication makes our interactions so much richer.

[ECHOES]

pachy, you are right about the non-verbal communication. my T knows that it is important to me... I wonder why I neglected to consider that in my replies here.

anyway, thanks for your post

[LAS112]

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AllyH88 said:

Those are the real reasons. But I didn't say that. I never said that.

Now that I don't have anyone to speak to professionally, I feel like a lot of problems are building up and it's hard to see straight (without the depression talking).

I should have just kept everything to myself.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I can relate to this. I'm not seeing a T right now, and when I first stopped seeing my T, I was running everything through my head over and over, trying to figure out why I still felt bad and why I couldn't just say everything I really needed to. I was angry with her for not "getting it" but then just became angry with myself for not saying what I needed to. I'm sorry your having a hard time right now. I hope things get better for you.

[Simcha]

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earthmama said:
I know my T pays close attention to my body language, because he'll comment on it sometimes... but that makes me really self-conscious!

We did have kind of a therapy breakthrough when he pointed out that sometimes when we're getting close to a difficult topic, I'll suddenly kind of raise my chin defiantly and move on to something else. He helped me notice when I was doing it, and asked me if I could stay with the difficult topic a little longer - and we've been able to talk about the topic a little since then.
He'll also comment sometimes about how I'm sitting. I always take off my shoes and sit with my knees pulled up in front of me on the couch - and kind of peek over my knees at him. Sometimes, I'll stretch my legs out straight and lean against the arm of the couch, and he'll say something like "you seem relaxed:.
Honestly, it makes me kind of nervous that he's reading me like that. I'm not used to people playing such close attention to me - and it makes me wonder what else he's seeing that he's not saying?!?!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Hi earthmama!
You're not simply being WATCHED, earthmama. You're actually being...
ANALYZED!!!!!

That's a good sign though. A good T should be an excellent trained observer. Not that knowing that makes it easier on difficult topics. It actually might make you more nervous as it does me when I discuss topics that are a little more difficult.

Don't bother wasting your time trying to figure out what your T might be thinking about you. I sincerely doubt it would be anything negative. He isn't going to criticize you, and the thought I'm sure never crosses his mind. I think that is what therapists call "unconditional positive regard."

Just make sure you warn your T at the start of the session if you had to take a Benadryl for allergies so that he knows if you act goofy it's probably not what he thinks.

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Simcha said:

Hi earthmama!
You're not simply being WATCHED, earthmama. You're actually being...
ANALYZED!!!!!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

I do know that it's good. I appreciate that he is so present and so dedicated to figuring me out and figuring out how to help me.

Doesn't make it any less scary, though!

[RACEKA]

Thanks for all your comments on body language. I hope I remember this at next session.

<font color="purple">Eh, my old T (I say old because I'm on the waiting list to get a new one) was absolutely oblivious to my body language. I mean, I never really talked much, but geez, you'd think she'd at least pick up I was in slight distress about how I'd always be fidgiting nervously with something from start to finish and always looking around the room and hardly ever making eye contact...I guess that was just misread as boredom or ADHD or something. </font>