[mountaindew24]

I went to c my therapist today. It was OK. before I left I asked her I wanted to see my files and she said could u wait a few min. She came back and told me again that she was not going to let me c them. she like there some stuff in there that the Dr and your my old T does not want me to see. I'm like take it out I have the right to see my files. she like alright u do have a right to see your files i can't gave it to u. what should I do just forget it or just leave it. I just want to know what they wrote down about me. especially my old t who i seen for 5 yrs

I think it probably important to process with your therapist, why it is important for you to see your files.

Although you do have a right to see your files, it is a T's job to discourage that because as individuals in recovery from a mental illness, reading that a doctor or therapist wrote, can end up being more detrimental.

I had a client a couple of weeks ago who wanted to see his file. I told him that I didn't feel comfortable doing anything that I didn't see as beneficial to his treatment. Instead, I asked him what it would be like if he was to write his own treatment notes. He discussed with me, what his own "progress note" would look like if he wrote it. We talked about how close or far away his interpretation was, from what was written in the chart. Most of all, we talked about why this was so important to him.

[chaotic13]

I think Pinksoil's activity is a great suggestion. This exercise would be a great way for you to find the answers that you are really looking for. In the end it really doesn't matter what others think about us, Half the time I don't believe what others say even when I hear it. Even though my T seems very perceptive, she doesn't know the whole story of anything discussed.

mountaindew24 I would recommend that you look critically at the relationship you have with your new T. Do you feel that she has what is in your best interest at the center of all your interactions? Is she an advocate or an adversary? If you feel that she is being honest with you then, forget the chart seeing desire for now and focus on creating a totally new and separate relationship with her. If what is written is not accurate then she will soon know the truth.

I would focus on your current therapy, not what happened or didn't happen with your last T.

[JimWriter]

I like both chaotic's and pink's answers. I'm an incredibly big believer in open government and openness, in general, but ultimately, the therapy you receive is meant for you. What the T writes is probably general stuff, written in clinical terms which could leave you with a sense that you're a "scientific specimen."
Of course, you're not and the T knows that, but he or she is trained to note his/her observations about you.
That said, I like Chaotic's suggestion that if you feel your T's being honest with you about your situation, you might want to leave the issue alone. He or she can help you with not to worry about what others think.

[mountaindew24]

T called me about 30 min. ago and said she would let me see my files but My old T , Dr and she would be in a meeting Friday. i'm like why them two in the meeting she said if u want to see them that way they r going . T said that the way the dr wanted it. i'm like ok then.

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mountaindew24 said:
T called me about 30 min. ago and said she would let me see my files but My old T , Dr and she would be in a meeting Friday. i'm like why them two in the meeting she said if u want to see them that way they r going . T said that the way the dr wanted it. i'm like ok then.

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A psychiatrist is the head of the treatment team. Typically, if a client absolutely insists on seeing the file, the therapist has to defer to the psychiatrist.

[(JD)]

I'm sorry that you feel you need to know what is written about you in those files. If you were having legal difficulties because of the notes (such as having lost custody of children,) then yes, it would be good for your attorney to have. The notes there are for the therapists to work from in order to guide you the way you need to go for healing. It's also for the codes used for the insurance company so they pay.

It is usually not a good idea to read all that is in there, and the basic information, such as what the therapist has your disorders listed as, can be heard from your T. There is always a possibility that you are suffering in a way you aren't ready to realize yet, and it could put your therapy back to the beginning if you are reactive.

The issue here is trusting - or rather not trusting- your T. That is what takes time, in therapy, to develop. Viewing your records now may cause great misunderstanding and upset, and maybe even cause you to leave therapy. That wouldn't be a good thing. So I caution you to figure out WHY you "need" to see your files.

You know, just because you have the right doesn't mean it's in your own best interest to do this.

[splitimage]

I got my patient notes from a rehab that I was in, and really wished I hadn't seen them, as I really disagreed with a lot of what was written and it just pissed me off. My pdoc got them when I was admitted to her hospital, and gave me a copy as I needed the info contained in them about a seizure I had had to give to my family dr. so she could write a letter helping me get my licence back. I'd seriously consider why you want to see them.

--splitimage

I would definitely agree with Sky-- just because it is your right, doesn't mean that it is in your best interest. These notes are actually for the therapist-- not for you. I think it would be much more important to process and explore why this is so important to you. When therapists write notes, they are often writing about a clinical HYPOTHESIS-- don't you think it is more important to rely on the here-and-now of what goes on in the session? That is where the authentic, genuine stuff goes on-- not in the notes.

[Simcha]

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pinksoil said:
I think it probably important to process with your therapist, why it is important for you to see your files.

Although you do have a right to see your files, it is a T's job to discourage that because as individuals in recovery from a mental illness, reading that a doctor or therapist wrote, can end up being more detrimental.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I have to disagree with you there Pink.

The only way that a psychologist or doctor can deny a patient a copy of and/or review of their files is if the doctor/psychologist believes it would be extremely harmful to the patient to do so. Even then, that is only that doctor/psychologists personal opinion (or lie, in the event of a bad doc/psych.). This can be circumvented by having the doc/psych. send the file to their family doctor or doctor of their choice(which they must do under the law), and then the patient can go to that doctor and request a copy of their files.

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I had a client a couple of weeks ago who wanted to see his file. I told him that I didn't feel comfortable doing anything that I didn't see as beneficial to his treatment. Instead, I asked him what it would be like if he was to write his own treatment notes. He discussed with me, what his own "progress note" would look like if he wrote it. We talked about how close or far away his interpretation was, from what was written in the chart. Most of all, we talked about why this was so important to him.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> What could possibly be so detrimental to the patient? I think it's more of a power and control paradigm than anything else really, when doctors/psychologists/therapists etc. withhold as a matter of course, the patient's medical records. I'm not speaking about YOU Pink, I just mean in general. I don't know the situation with your patient, and perhaps it would be incredibly harmful for the patient to read them in his case.

If he left his old T and went to a new one due to a bad experience, I can understand wanting to see the files that were transferred to the new T. What the therapist/doc/psych. thinks and believes and knows about the patient determines the course of treatment, doesn't it?
I think there are very few instances where the therapy records could be harmful. There is also the question of professional accountability. If a patient believes he isn't getting proper treatment and wants to see his files to hold the practitioner accountable, all of the rest falls by the wayside.
Personally for me, I don't really care about my psychologists records on me, but then again, I like my psychologist, and I only care about the progress we make. If he wasn't a good one, and I suffered harm mentally because of it, yeah, I would want to see his records on me.

[chaotic13]

mountaindew24,
I forget how your records got initially transfered from your old T to your new T.

If I ever decide at some point to see a different T, I (personally) would never permit this type of exchange unless I was the one controlling what information was shared. The whole point of starting therapy with someone new is to get yourself a chance to start with a clean slate. If you have some major mental illness, the new T will catch on fairly quick and do their own investigation into it. Maybe I am just being a freak but.... I don't want my health professionals chatting behind my back... even with good intentions.

I say _____ your old T. Her understanding of you and and her ability to treat you was obviously ineffective. Otherwise you would still be going to her and not this new T. Is there some reason you are allowing her to continue to influence your current treatment? Kick her off your health care team. If you are no longer seeing her, why is she meeting with your new and and Dr? I think I am missing something here.

[Simcha]

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chaotic13 said:
mountaindew24,
I forget how your records got initially transfered from your old T to your new T.

If I ever decide at some point to see a different T, I (personally) would never permit this type of exchange unless I was the one controlling what information was shared. The whole point of starting therapy with someone new is to get yourself a chance to start with a clean slate. If you have some major mental illness, the new T will catch on fairly quick and do their own investigation into it. Maybe I am just being a freak but.... I don't want my health professionals chatting behind my back... even with good intentions.

I say _____ your old T. Her understanding of you and and her ability to treat you was obviously ineffective. Otherwise you would still be going to her and not this new T. Is there some reason you are allowing her to continue to influence your current treatment? Kick her off your health care team. If you are no longer seeing her, why is she meeting with your new and and Dr? I think I am missing something here.

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Absolutely! I'm missing something too.
And...has there been a consent to release information signed by him for the psychiatrist and therapist to collaborate in the first place? I don't recommend any transfer of records from one therapist and/or pdoc to another in most cases. The potential for bias is far too great.

[MyBestKids2]

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Simcha said:
The potential for bias is far too great.

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I'll to that!!!

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Simcha said:
I don't recommend any transfer of records from one therapist and/or pdoc to another in most cases. The potential for bias is far too great.

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A transfer of records (with the patient's consent, of course) is a good idea-- most treatment providers feel that the more information that is available, the better. A good clinican should not let "bias" get in the way of a routine, professional transfer of records.

[Simcha]

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pinksoil said:

A transfer of records (with the patient's consent, of course) is a good idea-- most treatment providers feel that the more information that is available, the better. A good clinican should not let "bias" get in the way of a routine, professional transfer of records.

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No one should let bias get in their way, but it happens. T's are human too (hence counter-transference, etc.).
Patients transferring records from one T to another T should take that into consideration (if they haven't already). I would think that usually, when a patient has left one T and gone to another that it is usually because it wasn't working out (more than anything else).
If it were an ideal world...

[chaotic13]

Again maybe I am just able to interpret this from the perspective of my own therapy. I think transferring records shortchanges the whole process of building the therapeutic relationship. If when I started therapy, my T had a detailed background of my past experiences, behavior patterns, etc.. I think my progress might have gone a little smoother, she might not have done some of the things she did in the beginning that really set me off. However, I would also not have learned as much about how my interaction with others sometimes prevents me from being understood and ultimately getting what I want. For example for the first 4 months of therapy I denied and withheld a lot of key bits of information. This hampered my therapy and resulted in a lot of additional turmoil and suffering. I probably needed to experience this in order to recognize the need for at least trying to change this behavior.

Having to start from scratch makes building the therapeutic relationship more like what you have to do in real life. Maybe in some cases making the process easier is necessary. However in Mt.Dew's case, the sharing of records seems to have derailed the whole process. IMO

[sunrise]

I think if the client sees a benefit to the new T seeing the old records, then he/she should go ahead with the transfer. I personally would not do it, as I prefer to communicate with my T myself. He can find out everything he needs to know from me. When I started with my T, I did tell him I had a previous therapist, and he never showed any interest in getting me to request my file be sent to him. I guess he had faith in his own abilities and didn't need to see the conclusions of someone else. I also think it might have biased him. My diagnosis with the first T was probably depression. With my current T, it is PTSD. I think it's good to let them explore and uncover on their own. They are going to find out different things from the client based on their skills and approach and what the client shares with them. What the client shares can vary tremendously from T to T.

[mountaindew24]

Well Friday i seen my files and lets just say i now wish i had not seen them.
old T wrote in file that i was a snobby, spoil rotten brat, and a smart *** I'm like that hurt. then come to found out that starting in October i will start seeing my old T again. and there was more stuff wrote down about me when i would leave. New T say great stuff about me...................

[Dinah]

Good grief! I really can't see any professional reason to write down *that*. What is the diagnostic relevance?

Why would you have to see him again? Is it possible to insist that the therapeutic relationship has fractured?

I'm sorry you felt hurt. I have to say that although I've been hurt by the comments in my file before, I've never seen anything like that written down. Everything has always been written in professional language.

[chaotic13]

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a snobby, spoil rotten brat, and a smart ***

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Sounds pretty normal to me

I would be more worried by things like... totally unaware of her current pathology, delusional, catastrophizing minor stresses, seems to have alternate personalities appear during a session without realizing it... she is one F'ed up b*&^h

spoil brat... smart ***... sounds like she is jealous of you, not writing professionally. I would think these comments would reflect badly on her as a professional more so than give your new T a false impression of you.

[imapatient]

That sounds worse than unprofessional--it sounds like the old T wasn't objective, and it's unethical to see a client for whom you can't remain objective.

What's the deal about seeing that T again? No way. I don't see how you could feel comformtable, nor that the old T is objective.

[imapatient]

"I would be more worried by things like... totally unaware of her current pathology, delusional, catastrophizing minor stresses, seems to have alternate personalities appear during a session without realizing it... she is one F'ed up b*&^h" chaotic13

kinda specific list--any particular reason for listing those things? are they common *very bad* comments or somehing?

I''m on the verge of reading old records of mine, too.

[(JD)]

IMO a confident, expert therapist doesn't need previous records. They will be able to - and want to - make their own diagnosis etc. There's a reason for people to change psychologists, counselors etc...and while that might be evident by the new T reading the records and finding how the former T wrote and thought, it's a waste of time. IMO.
Often a phone call with the former T is plenty, if the patient allows, but not necessary imnshpo.

Unless it's a necessary transfer of patient because of health etc, and if there is a long history that would aid the patient to not have to cover all that info again, the new T will be able to get up to running speed rather quickly.

But those are just my POVs.

[mountaindew24]

i told my current T that i wanted to see her, at that point i was begging her not to send me back to the old t . my T said don't worry u will keep seeing me. i'm like YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this T is great

[chaotic13]

imapatient,

My list was COMPLETELY off the top of my head. They were things that I would be afraid to hear about myself, not things that are medically "bad"or untreatable. I'm not a T.

My point was that the comments made my mountaindew's T seemed to be very unprofessional and more likely to reflect poorly on the T not the patient. IMO. As a health care professional myself, they would be things that I might think, but they certainly would not be written in an official medical record. Then again, I'm not a T so maybe I don't see the benefit of making statements like that. It's pure opinion and has no relevance to pathology or patient care, What's the value of including it in her chart?