[imapatient]

About 7 years ago, I went bankrupt. Owed her $1,000. So, it was lost for her by being part of my bankruptcy. I went on SSDI and for years had no money.

I have money now and want to pay her and relieve my guilt. We terminated 4 years ago and haven't had contact--she didn't want any; it was a messy termination. Paying her would be a major issue--she might not want to deal with it, or take it, or have a dialogue about it.

Would she have gotten a tax write-off or something for this--whatever a write-off would mean in dollar terms? I'm asking if she didn't suffer financially fully from not getting the money from me. If she didn't lose out on a lot of the 1 grand, I'll feel less guilty and can handle never paying her myself. Know nothing about the taxes and impact on a professional getting stiffed like she did.

[phoenix7]

I think they could probably claim it as a loss - can you ask your NY T if youre still in touch?

[sunrise]

I'd let it drop. This is the T who terminated you and didn't want to see you anymore. I remember you described some things that sounded kind of scary/creepy to me, so I don't think you should contact her about this--might come across as stalkerish. I think it's better to let sleeping dogs lie. She didn't want contact--respect that. If you feel guilty, you could donate to a charity you think she'd like, and dedicate your donation to "my therapist." My guess is that therapists are used to not being able to collect from clients from time to time. (She may have been able to write it off as a business loss if she has her own practice.) I agree it might be good to discuss this with your current therapist--someone who knows your story--to get an objective viewpoint.

[ECHOES]

It sounds like a wish to reconnect.
In bankruptcy creditors agree to dissolve the debt and release the debtor. She chose to do that and it is done.
It's a nice thought to want to repay her. Maybe you could pay it forward and donate all or part of that amount someplace that would make you feel good?

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I'd let it drop. This is the T who terminated you and didn't want to see you anymore. I remember you described some things that sounded kind of scary/creepy to me, so I don't think you should contact her about this--might come across as stalkerish. I think it's better to let sleeping dogs lie. She didn't want contact--respect that. If you feel guilty, you could donate to a charity you think she'd like, and dedicate your donation to "my therapist." My guess is that therapists are used to not being able to collect from clients from time to time. (She may have been able to write it off as a business loss if she has her own practice.) I agree it might be good to discuss this with your current therapist--someone who knows your story--to get an objective viewpoint.

Yes, I realize that she most likely she has no interest, but in terms of my personal shame and guilt, I'd like to know, if so, that the impact on her financially wasn't that much money.

I'll ask my current T--if he knows anything, but I thought that likely someone here is familiar enough with the tax accounting rules to offer some insight. She was an independent business practice.

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

It sounds like a wish to reconnect.
In bankruptcy creditors agree to dissolve the debt and release the debtor. She chose to do that and it is done.
It's a nice thought to want to repay her. Maybe you could pay it forward and donate all or part of that amount someplace that would make you feel good?

Yes, I've recognized that it's a desire to reconnect now, but have carried so much guilt about it for so many years. When I got some money when my dad died, it was one of the first things on my mind. It's really, really difficult to live with having gone bankrupt and most of all with a person that you know--and don’t want to hurt-- compared to a credit card company, which is also but a lesser burden.

I’m haunted by a comment she made years earlier in therapy about some financial issue I was having with someone—a dispute of sorts I think—and she said “You’re not a deadbeat; you pay your bills” to assuage my feelings. Then I became a deadbeat to her. The memory of her saying that has stuck with me since I went bankrupt. Like the real me was revealed years later to really be a deadbeat.

I ruminate like crazy over things that I think were a failing on my part. In partial hospitalization/dbt we’ve been talking about shame and guilt; there’s an element of both for me in this, but the shame weighs me down like nothing else. I can’t forgive myself.

Trying to process the therapy relationship with her with my NYC T is stirring up a lot of things, I guess.

(((((((((((((imapatient))))))))))))))))

after all of these years, I would just let it go. It might not FEEL like it, but it does sort of seem like a "wanting to reconnect" kind of thing...

I like the idea of paying it foward. Or....maybe hang on to it while you wait to figure out what your outpatient program is going to cost you? You may NEED that money!!

[phoenix7]

you're not a deadbeat imapatient - you didnt say how can i not pay my bills - oh I know i'll claim bankruptcy, you did it because you had to - dont be so hard on your self - talking to your NY T is a great idea - good luck P7

[ECHOES]

Bankruptcy can make us feel bad and those feelings can be hard to shake.
When I filed 10+ years ago, I went with a firm whose advertisement said that businesses get a second chance through bankruptcy all the time so why not us, too.
It's another way of asking for help when we need it.

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by earthmama

(((((((((((((imapatient))))))))))))))))

after all of these years, I would just let it go. It might not FEEL like it, but it does sort of seem like a "wanting to reconnect" kind of thing...

I like the idea of paying it foward. Or....maybe hang on to it while you wait to figure out what your outpatient program is going to cost you? You may NEED that money!!

No, I recognize the "re-connect" wish in it as on my mind to want to re-pay now. But the guilt/shame thing has always been with me ever since.

Let it go?

Letting things go is probably my biggest problem. I don't know how to; I seem to be unable to do so. So I sit and ruminate/obsess about things for years and years, sapping my psychic energy, and harming my self-esteem. I know I heard in therapy long ago--due to my endless ruminating--and also heard today at PH that ruminating over past failures, rejections, disappointments, etc. are a kind of self-abuse, mental self-harm by mentally re-living over and over the events. The ruminating/obsessing problem is part of my informal diagnosis--something about being stuck at a certain developmental phase in that way.

Actually, now that it comes to mind, we did this dbt exercise today about the getting over things, letting go. Coming to a fork in the road with one road being the acceptance avenue and the other being something like "rejection of reality road." The last bit was a sheet showing a hand turned as if emptying over a big wastebasket. We were supposed to put in the things that we know we need to throw away/get over. I put "bankruptcy guilt/shame" as one of those things.

A ha, I go home and post about the part of it relating to my old T. Guess I just figured out what triggered this issue, though it's been on my mind for a few months now in trying to process the old T termination.

[onlymedid]

I don't think you are obligated to pay it, but if it would make you feel better, can you send an anonymous money order or something? IDK...just a thought. That way your name wouldn't be on it, you can get it off your conscious and let it go?

[Beholden]

Just a thought about this. Are you at all concerned about paying back all you owed to the credit cards or other outstanding debts? If not, it is possible that you want back the therapeutic relationship with the former T. The termination wasn't your idea? I'm gathering.

Morally, your debt and obligation has been paid back by through the bankrupcy. Emotionally, are you still wanting back, (a therapeutic relationship) what you had?

Good luck with getting the feelings sorted out. I know I missed my T when we were finished. But we terminated because I felt whole again. I told him what a loss I felt not coming to see him anymore. He was always very gentle and what he told me was that I needed a "substitute" for him. He helped me with so much. I choose to get my life back as best as I could, like they say, "warts and all". Depression is the pits, thank God my medicine is working and some of my therapy comes back to remind me there is life after therapy

Maybe that's called acceptance? I still obsess, still feel sad but I have so much more when I participate in life.

Ya know what I mean? Hang in there and know you will do what is right for you. Donating the money sounds like a good idea as long as you truely don't or won't need it in the future. Find a mental health organization to help education others about mental illness, or like someone else wrote, to a charity your former T supports.

I hope this didn't sound too harsh, I mean it in love and with the hope you can stop the cycle of being so hard on yourself.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

It sounds like a wish to reconnect.
In bankruptcy creditors agree to dissolve the debt and release the debtor. She chose to do that and it is done.
It's a nice thought to want to repay her. Maybe you could pay it forward and donate all or part of that amount someplace that would make you feel good?

you could give the money to charity. IMO you would feel relief of your debt; and she would be OK with whatever arrangement she made with the tax man in the time between then and now.