[Distressed2010]

I hate hate hate being told what to do! I've spent most of my life in US but now I live in a different country. Here, the elders are above everyone else. I also originally belong to this culture but I always hated the elder younger crap because in my dysfunctional family, my elder sister always used that against me, for ex. Go get me a glass of water, she'd say and if i didn't want to, then I was bad because I didn't listen to my elder (in her opinion. my parents just followed because they didn't want her ranting around).

Anyhoo, now that I'm here... let me say what the REAL ISSUe is.

So, the city I'm living in right now has loads of public parks, government owned. A lot of times, some people try to boss others around in the park. It really bugs me.

Today, at this one park, there are two sections of benches, you can move the benches around. One section the elder ladies sit, and the other the elder men. Today, the sections weren't very divided and there was a bench in one odd corner that I sat in. I had my legs up on the other bench, so i was using 2.

The elder grandpa sent the gardner to move the benches who told me to move. I let him take the bench I had my feet on but I didn't want to move from the bench I was sitting in. Then the older grandpa came and said "well ladies sit there, you should go there, we need this bench this is for men".

okay first of all there are no such divisions in ANY park in this country, people just make divisions based on daily socialization.

I didn't want to move to the ladies section, I wanted to relax ALONE. What should I have said to him?

I told him that I'll be leaving soon, and he can have the bench then.

Don't you think that's a bit absurd to make me get up and go somewhere I dont want to?

The dilemma here is, if i stand up for myself and say I'm going to sit here, they'll hate me and say how rude of a young person i am to not respect elders and make it a whole community neighborhood story, hey that's the girl that didn't move when asked! shame!

The other side is where I can get up to save my so called "reputation" from getting spoiled but then I get angry on the inside that I moved because someone said so. Then, tomorrow someone else is going to say something and I'll move again. I feel like a wuss.

I need help! Would anyone in my place have done the same and not left their seat or would they have moved?

If you would have stood up for yourself, can you help me deal with this inner guilt and feeling like my reputation is now ruined because I'm a bad youngen??

[Leed]

This is a difficult situation. I can see both sides. I have to side with YOU tho, because I think them asking you to move was idiotic. They could have found another bench somewhere else -- or THEY could have gone somewhere else to sit.

Now I know this is ancient customs that we're talking about -- and too many customs have been lost to "progress." Personally I LOVE to see the older customs retained and honored. I know that the young people probably despise these customs ~ but I find them beautiful. I also find the "respecting of the elders" wonderful. If this country (the U.S.) practiced more of that, perhaps we wouldn't be in the shape that we're in. Young people today don't respect anyone -- not even themselves!!! So to retain those old customs makes alot of sense to me.

But you can retain those customs without making people go somewhere else in a park that is meant for EVERYONE. So i don't think that was fair or just to make you go somewhere else to sit. I don't care if you're part of the customs or not. I don't care if you're male or female -- that is a PUBLIC park. So next time, tell them NICELY and RESPECTFULLY that it IS a public park, and you can sit where you want to. They have every right to move. And just say thank you. LOL That's what I would do.

God bless you and take care. Hugs, Lee

I would move to a different Country let alone a different bench.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by Distressed2010

I hate hate hate being told what to do! I've spent most of my life in US but now I live in a different country. Here, the elders are above everyone else. I also originally belong to this culture but I always hated the elder younger crap ...

Poor Distressed,

You are caught in a culture clash and I'm afraid there's no great way of compromising between the two. You've obviously adapted to the US and accepted and enjoyed the freedom and independence the US extends to all female people. And then you go "home" and find out you can't be an "American" woman in your home country without paying a high price. I very much doubt that there's a happy resolution to the problem if you have to stay there. Though I'm an American male, I've lived in several other countries, am married to a woman from a very different country and have been friends through a long life with several women (and men) from very different cultures.

There is what one might call the "wisdom" solution. And that means, after you've adjusted to American mores, being able to go back to your first country and pretend you're one of them. Pretend you never left. Accept, for the short time you're there, that you know and accept all the strict rules applying to your gender in that country. You won't like it, but it won't kill you.

Where you will ultimately wind up spending the rest of your life is a huge, huge part of the issue. Having had a long experience of Western countries by being in America, it would be a very difficult thing to re-adjust, for the rest of your life, to your original culture. Isn't there some way for you to come back here?

The best of luck to you. Take care.

[Distressed2010]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Poor Distressed,

You are caught in a culture clash and I'm afraid there's no great way of compromising between the two. You've obviously adapted to the US and accepted and enjoyed the freedom and independence the US extends to all female people. And then you go "home" and find out you can't be an "American" woman in your home country without paying a high price. I very much doubt that there's a happy resolution to the problem if you have to stay there. Though I'm an American male, I've lived in several other countries, am married to a woman from a very different country and have been friends through a long life with several women (and men) from very different cultures.

There is what one might call the "wisdom" solution. And that means, after you've adjusted to American mores, being able to go back to your first country and pretend you're one of them. Pretend you never left. Accept, for the short time you're there, that you know and accept all the strict rules applying to your gender in that country. You won't like it, but it won't kill you.

Where you will ultimately wind up spending the rest of your life is a huge, huge part of the issue. Having had a long experience of Western countries by being in America, it would be a very difficult thing to re-adjust, for the rest of your life, to your original culture. Isn't there some way for you to come back here?

The best of luck to you. Take care.

Thank you for your response. I wanted to clarify that its not a "gender" issue, its an "age" issue. We are taught to give respect to our elders but at times some elders may use that to their advantage.

Although this issue involves a bit of culture, its more of a personal issue, since if i stand up for myself, I think about what others will think, which is both a personal as well as a cultural issue.

Also, I made a decision to stay here, although there are some things that might irk me about my country (well, now its both this country and US since I feel like I belong in both places - US is very much "home" as this country is for me..) .. there are things that are just as wonderful, just as is true for any other country and individual. Good and Bad co-exist.

Also, I'd like to mention that the same freedom that exists for women in US also exists in many other countries. So, we can't truly define it as "american". I'm not sure what "countries" you were talking about visiting/lived in... or what year that was...
because there's gender problems in corporate America as well, where women can be treated lower than men, or payed lower than men, etc... There's discrimination based on "whatever" reason one may want to find, in EVERY country, whether its race, money, status, power, etc.. you name it, its there.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

[KathyM]

Hi Distressed

I found your response to him to be appropriate. After all, there weren't a bunch of men standing around and waiting for you to leave so they could take their seats. Under the circumstances, it was a respectful response - it would have been disrespectful if you would have told him to "F-off!"

I think it's important to respect and pay attention to our elders, but there is a difference between being an elder and just being old. An elder is someone who has earned respect among those with whom they have a connection. Elders are people who actually care about the people with whom they are connected. I show common courtesy and respect towards elderly people in public, but I don't find it necessary to obey their commands and act as their servant. I would, however, obey the commands of MY elders - because we are connected, and I know they care.

That old man in the park didn't care about you. Your only connection is the park.

If there are no men in the traditionally designated men's section, I don't see a problem with you sitting there. The same would go for a man sitting in the traditionally designated women's section.

Then again, it might have a LOT to do with appearance and comfort level. Maybe that old man wanted to sit near you in his usual section, but didn't want people to think he was sitting WITH you. Maybe he's got a very jealous wife, lol.

If the tables were turned, and you wanted some to spend some quiet time in the women's section of the park....wouldn't you find it a little rude/disrespectful if you saw a strange man sitting in your spot with his feet on the bench? Wouldn't you consider it an invasion of space, even if the space does not technically belong to you?

[lotusflames]

ooh that's a hard one.

i guess, in circumstances like that, you have to go with cultural norms no matter how much you might hate it