[hamster-bamster]

I come from a culture where men pay. To a ridiculous point - in 2008, when I went back home with my then H and two daughters, I was in a restaurant and I ordered our meal and the waitress was confused to death when she returned at the end of the meal because she did not know whom to give the bill to - to him? but he did not order; to me? but I am a woman. So I have never paid for a date. A couple of years ago a picked up a copy of Dating for Dummies at my local B&N and read that women are supposed to pick up the tab every once and a while. How do you know when the right "while" is and how do you do it gracefully? Does income distribution figure in the equation (I would most likely date people who make much more money than I do)? I thought that as a solution I can invite a man over for 1) a meal (I can cook restaurant quality meals) 2) wine and cheese 3) tea with sweets. I can easily pull off any of that, expending money, time, and labor=being nice, and I would enjoy doing that. There are two problems. First, I am messy. I have a messy apartment full of unpacked boxes, with three cats, with carpeting that has not been cleaned in this millenium - I can only invite select easygoing people and not OCD clean freaks over. Second, I am afraid that unike a restaurant date an invitation to my apartment would be regarded as an invitation for sex and what if I am not yet ready for that? So my solution has limitations. With the right easygoing person who is not looking for a Martha Stewart in the bedroom and whom I am ready to be intimate with, it is a good solution. But not otherwise. For the rest of the situations, I need some hard and fast rule. Offer to pay on every Nth date? How insistently?

Heya!

I have always offered to go dutch, esp on a first date. In fact, if it was someone I didn't want to see again, I would insist on it, so not to let them feel used. If it was someone who I wanted to see again, and they wanted to pay, I'd just say 'sure, but I'll get the next one'. - And hope they wanted to go out again!

I think the days of the man paying all the time are gone, and quite right too. Even if he earns more, I don't think a woman should expect them to pay and should deffo offer or insist on paying for a meal now and then. I have always taken turns. If its too expensive, then I'd think of other places to go for dates - cinema and then a drink perhaps, or do daytime dates when can, off to a tourist attraction or something that's free. I love meals at home, and effort & home cooked food are fab, but yes, I wouldn't offer it until a few dates in, and make sure that the person knows whats on the menu, or not, so to speak!!

[whoswho]

I suppose it depends on the people involved in the relationship. My ex kind of insisted on paying for everything; sometimes I would FORCE him to let me buy him a coffee or something. I actually really hate having people buy stuff for me, a date or not. Of course it made sense considering that he had a job and I didn't, but still. I suppose it's kind of a strange thing to "complain" about!

I'd say in general expect to split things about 50-50. Just let him know that you want to keep things casual...

HB, I haven't dated in awhile, but let me dust off my ol' dating brain. I think dating do's and dont's are confusing for everyone these days!

But when it comes down to it, I think men and women are still kind of old fashioned.

I play it safe and bring enough to cover the evening. But I am definitely still old fashioned. Not all dates go well but even then, I recall the man taking care of the check. I always offer though to go 50/50.

Generally for me:

If it is a first or blind date initiated by him, he picks up the tab. If I ask someone out, it is usually someone I know, and I always offer, but they will get the check (esp if he is interested).

If we go out again, he gets dinner, and if we go to a movie, I always offer to get the popcorn, soda, etc if it is out for a nightcap, he will get it. But I offer.

I usually do not invite a man into my home until later in dating situations (for instance, to make dinner for them or to watch a movie), because in my experience, most times, they take it as an invitation to stay or as an invitation to make out, and if I am not ready or interested in that, it can be awkward.

If he asks me to his home, I call my friend and tell her/him exactly where I will be. And when go there, I bring a bottle of wine or a small dessert. As the evening winds down, I have the option to beg off (if I am not ready or feeling it) and will take myself home.

Some may have a different approach and/or disagree...I know there are different POVs on the whole dating thing

Whatever the case, if you are having a date, have a great time! Have fun!

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

Heya!

I have always offered to go dutch, esp on a first date. In fact, if it was someone I didn't want to see again, I would insist on it, so not to let them feel used. If it was someone who I wanted to see again, and they wanted to pay, I'd just say 'sure, but I'll get the next one'. - And hope they wanted to go out again!

I think the days of the man paying all the time are gone, and quite right too. Even if he earns more, I don't think a woman should expect them to pay and should deffo offer or insist on paying for a meal now and then. I have always taken turns. If its too expensive, then I'd think of other places to go for dates - cinema and then a drink perhaps, or do daytime dates when can, off to a tourist attraction or something that's free. I love meals at home, and effort & home cooked food are fab, but yes, I wouldn't offer it until a few dates in, and make sure that the person knows whats on the menu, or not, so to speak!!

Oh I always ask my guests about their food preferences because some people are vegetarians or what not! So most definitely.

I got your point about going dutch when you do NOT want to see the person again. Understood.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Oh I always ask my guests about their food preferences because some people are vegetarians or what not! So most definitely.

I was being cheeky, and very badly trying to make a innuendo over the menu and what's on offer, as you wrote about them getting the wrong idea. Apologies - I was always bad at writing!! x

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Rose Panachée

If he asks me to his home, I call my friend and tell her/him exactly where I will be. And when go there, I bring a bottle of wine or a small dessert. As the evening winds down, I have the option to beg off (if I am not ready or feeling it) and will take myself home.


Whatever the case, if you are having a date, have a great time! Have fun!

Thank you! That situation that you described, being invited to HIS home, is a little tricky for me because I do not have a car - my ex H took my car and god only knows when I will get it back. So I will not be independent enough with my transportation back home and I do not like that. But I guess I can still gently insist on being taken home.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by whoswho

I suppose it depends on the people involved in the relationship. My ex kind of insisted on paying for everything; sometimes I would FORCE him to let me buy him a coffee or something. I actually really hate having people buy stuff for me, a date or not. Of course it made sense considering that he had a job and I didn't, but still. I suppose it's kind of a strange thing to "complain" about!

I'd say in general expect to split things about 50-50. Just let him know that you want to keep things casual...

That makes sense. But if you did not have a job, I think his paying for stuff made sense, too.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

I was being cheeky, and very badly trying to make a innuendo over the menu and what's on offer, as you wrote about them getting the wrong idea. Apologies - I was always bad at writing!! x

Sorry, it is not you being bad at writing, it is me being bad at reading between the lines!

Grins!! :-)

HB, you can always descretely call for a cab or make round trip arrangements beforehand if the location isnt too far

If you are ready to leave, though, (for example he picked you up) the powder room is a good place for that...ask the dispatcher to have the driver call when s/he arrives...and you can always (with grace) just say, "I had a wonderful evening...thank you so much" and a nice kiss on the cheek before you depart

I have done that in the past esp when I was meeting someone for the first time at a restaurant. Took a cab there and home. It is safest to me so I can enjoy the evening, have a glass of wine with dinner or a cocktail and not worry about getting in the car or needing a ride.

[hamster-bamster]

That's right, Rose, what a simple idea!

[whoswho]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

That makes sense. But if you did not have a job, I think his paying for stuff made sense, too.

Haha, yeah, but he probably would have paid even if I was making money. Very chivalrous, especially for someone in my generation (I'm 20). Did the whole door-holding and opening and things like that. Which was very nice, I just made it really awkward by not knowing how to accept it gracefully.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is no real "equation" as far as dating goes I think, usually it's just better to be direct and ask what the other person is expecting from you. And there has also been a lot of good advice provided in this thread...

Hamster,

The rule is:

If the man pays, the woman a owes him sex.

If the woman pays, the man owes her sex.

This way it is fair for everyone.

-Fleeing Bellocq, Miss Manners of the Mission District

Originally Posted by Rose Panachée

HB,

If it is a first or blind date initiated by him, he picks up the tab. If I ask someone out, it is usually someone I know, and I always offer, but they will get the check (esp if he is interested).

If we go out again, he gets dinner, and if we go to a movie, I always offer to get the popcorn, soda, etc if it is out for a nightcap, he will get it. But I offer.

Exactly like you said.. Although with each guy its different but in general I find that if the guy initiates the date its nice if he pays.. With the exception of the situation where I know I won't see the guy again. Then it would be kind of rude to let him pay. If there is a second date I offer to pay. But so far almost all guys I dated insisted to pay. The only exception was someone who after the first date took out a paper and a pen and calculated 50% of the total bill..he was German

[hamster-bamster]

I can see a German guy do that .

That Dating for Dummies book said that women do not owe sex to men who pay for dates.

[whoswho]

Originally Posted by fleeingbellocq

Hamster,

The rule is:

If the man pays, the woman a owes him sex.

If the woman pays, the man owes her sex.

This way it is fair for everyone.

-Fleeing Bellocq, Miss Manners of the Mission District

Haha, yes! Equality!

I agree...if there is definitely no spark there I go 50/50 (I always bring enough though for the entire evening. Just in case )

First and last date with the pen and paper guy, non? (ewww)

Originally Posted by laura8

Exactly like you said.. Although with each guy its different but in general I find that if the guy initiates the date its nice if he pays.. With the exception of the situation where I know I won't see the guy again. Then it would be kind of rude to let him pay. If there is a second date I offer to pay. But so far almost all guys I dated insisted to pay. The only exception was someone who after the first date took out a paper and a pen and calculated 50% of the total bill..he was German

I haven't read all the replies yet but I think those rulebooks are stupid. It's not anything that is set in stone, and it's way too subjective. I think it really depends on the people on the date. I mean, for me personally I'm always willing to pick up the tab as a guy and if I can't do so I shouldn't be asking a woman out -- even though I'm not dating now, that's my perspective but, there are also some women that would be put off by a guy's insistence to pay and would rather pay their share. If I happened to go on a date and the woman insisted she paid her way, I'd let her but I just would never ask that. I don't think there's a rule that everyone goes by anymore, what with women working at good jobs along with men.. I think the thought that it was a rule that men always pay was set up in an era when women were either not working or didn't make nearly as much and men were more of the providers in society, it's become more equal now so it's kind of a big gray area. I'd just go with the flow, if he wants to pay his way, let him, it kind of helps to make the guy feel as though he's taking care of you on the date but if he's open to it and you'd rather pay your share, go for it!

Originally Posted by fleeingbellocq

Hamster,

The rule is:

If the man pays, the woman a owes him sex.

If the woman pays, the man owes her sex.

This way it is fair for everyone.

-Fleeing Bellocq, Miss Manners of the Mission District

OMYGOSH. I would never hold to that rule! I don't think sex following a date is ever a given in the first place! I would always pay for the date if she let me but God forbid I would expect sex in return that's just absurd. I don't know if you were being silly or serious but i dont' take a woman on a date expecting sex, whether I pay or not.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I can see a German guy do that .

That Dating for Dummies book said that women do not owe sex to men who pay for dates.

I agree with this 100%

Almost always I have paid for it all, unless she has insisted otherwise, but either way the dates always end the same, the only change being in my bank account balance.

Rose, yes it was the first and last date with the pen guy..not necessarily because of that

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

OMYGOSH. I would never hold to that rule! I don't think sex following a date is ever a given in the first place! I would always pay for the date if she let me but God forbid I would expect sex in return that's just absurd. I don't know if you were being silly or serious but i dont' take a woman on a date expecting sex, whether I pay or not.

You are kind, S4ndm4n2006,

Yes, of course it was a joke, but good of you to check, and so glad there are men like you in this world.

Thank you,

-Fleeing Bellocq

[Harley47]

I always try to pay for a date's meal...it seems rude of me not to. lol Honestly, it drives me halfway nuts not to. But if she absolutely insists, then I respect her wishes.

lol By the way Sandman, epic avatar. Nuketown 2025 FTW.