Sex outside marriage

Am sure you put a thread up over saying how to date this girl you've been on three dates with, and yet you're talking about your g/f? I don't understand.

However, I am wondering why you'd want a relationship on these terms. You're quite controlling here, saying that you do not want her to see what you've bought, never telling her where you are going and for how long. And then the best is to point out her inadequacies to deflect any bad behaviour on your own behalf. That is just poison. The ability to communicate, be honest, be trustworthy, be loving - those are the best qualities to a relationship, and one that will be happier than playing games. And these are some games.
I am quite shocked too that you're pointing out tips on how to have an affair. Wow. How very sad.. Its like wedding vows meant nothing, nor 45 years of marriage. She's poorly, has a condition that causes her pain, and yet you condone an affair, just to get his end away. Talk about kick a woman when she's down.

I was thinking about this point, when out and about today. CTRL-SHIFT-P. That's for InPrivate Browsing on the Web.
Then, one need not worry about clearing their web history

I wonder about BOTH women involved. The wife, not being free to pursue a new life. And the Mistress, ALSO, not being 'free' to go about her life, and being tied down to a relationship, that doesn't give her a chance to find LOVE in her Life. Well, actually, the wife, too, isn't being given a chance to have LOVE in her life either.

riotgrrl....the moment he couldn't make dinner in his home for the third date, was my 'guessing it' moment....

Wow, guess I was lucky to get out of my last marriage! Now I know my trust was misplaced! How to destroy a women's sanity...

I am so slow at times!! Kudos to you And am now quite angry that I replied and tried to help.

I just, kind of, want to point out that I was, kind of, well, a bit facetious. Kind of. although, of course, only partly so...

The Mistress is better positioned in terms of access to information, though. She knows what she is signing up for, while the Wife does not.

Right, I should clarify. She is my ex-girlfriend. I broke up with her, but she still lives with me. If she wants to live here and cook and clean and do the laundry and whatnot, I can't complain about it. But I do conceal when I am going out with other women most of the time because that would just be a bit awkward, ya know. Most of what I wrote still stands from when we were together as well.

And no, I am not controlling. I am quite the opposite. I think you are misinterpreting the fact that I refuse to be controlled as me being controlling. I have never been controlling in any relationship. I treat people the way I prefer to be treated.

OK so now she is your roommate. You are not informing your roommate of your whereabouts. Makes perfect sense.

As Hamster said, if she's your roommate, then of course you do not have to share. It may be better to clarify. I still think that you're being contolling if you say that most of it applied when you were still together.. refused to be controlled and not letting someone know what you're doing is not the same thing. It only becomes controlling if they refuse or stop you doing what you want to do. It's a courtesy, without it it may create distrust. For an example as you've already said with the affair advice - it makes it easy to have affairs. When you do not offer someone that courtesy, then you're the one controlling and calling the shots. It's not so healthy.

This bit made me smile a wry smile tho -

- and here you are giving someone advice on how to have an affair. Classic.

I did not get that part, though. I do not think that High Treason ever intimated that he wanted a woman who'd be sexually exclusive with him. So, seems fair to me...

Not at the moment, no. Fair enough. But I wonder if there will be one day when he doesn't want to get hurt...

I do not think that lack of sexual exclusivity would actually hurt him. He is better placed to opine on it, though.

In case if anybody was wondering.....BBM = Bold By Me.

I agree, there. Mistresses usually don't have blinders on when they agree. Sometimes, especially, in European culture, the Mistress and the Lover end up having strong affections for one another. Each is bond to some type of fidelity. For instance, I forget where I read this, so I cannot quote the source, at the moment, but once a mistress is taken, all sexual relations with the husband and wife, comes to an end. The Mistress, is actually revered in the inner circles of the Lover. It's not a terrible concept. Just goes against the grains in this country.

I am not sure this is true, culturally. There was a lovely movie with one of the most famous Italian actresses of the period, Vivien Leigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do not remember the title - I watched it as a teen. In that movie, she is the wife, and the husband has a mistress, and thinks that the wife does not know, but not only does she know, she also meets with the mistress to ask her to please go on and not leave the husband, because the sex that the wife has with the husband is better when he also has the mistress on the side.

I tend to think that this might very well be the case, given that sexuality is so complex.

Since Vivien Leigh was so famous and mainstream, it is possible that the movie depicted a mainstream trend and not some kind of an aberration.

I do though agree that the inner circle might give reverence to the mistress as the main Lover. But it does not mean at the expense of the Wife, though.

Plus, obviously, the Unbearable Lightness of Being... lots of casual women plus regular sex with the wife who is the only person the husband can SLEEP with (not HAVE SEX with, but SLEEP - SHARE THE BED at night - with - a different, higher level of intimacy for him which is only possible with the wife. Plus, lots of sex with the wife, as well).

But are we not in danger of comparing an life with movies and books, made to entertain? And in the Unbearable Lightness of Being, a film and book I loved in the 80's, has a lot of angst with Tereza. She has a real struggle with jealousy, suspects and then when finds that her husband is sleeping with someone else, she tries to commit suicide. Interestingly too, her husband also later feels jealousy over a man who's interested in his wife.

All these things, social/sexual history, movies and whatever can be twisted to suit a situation or a belief.. If someone thinks it's ok to have an affair, then they probably will, and justify it all they want. My own personal thought's I have made clear. In this day and age, people deserve more respect... Divorce is easy now and not the scandal it once was. If so unhappy in a relationship, or needs are not met and the possibility of compromising is not possible, then leave the partner. The wife, and to an extent the mistress should not be dragged into someone's else's lies, even if it seemed a good idea at first. It think, even in the long run, someone will get hurt, badly.

I believe the OP stated that he was otherwise happy in the relationship. they presumably have a good relationship and he does not want to leave her. It doesn't make sense to leave someone you love when you could just have sex with other people.

'Could just have sex with other people'

It's so simple, why didn't I think of that? Pesky emotions, lies, making someone feel betrayed. They're just a waste huh? Silly things that get in the way, otherwise it would be perfectly decent and even heroic! Saving the marriage! What a man.



Ps - I think he also stated that his wife would not be happy with this situation.

I do what I can to point out the simple things people miss

No, no. She would not be happy if she found out.

We should change our wedding vows to love, honour and obey, until I am not getting my end away. In sickness and in health, unless you get too sick.

Then all morals, decency and respect goes out the window. Does it matter if she doesn't find out? I love my fella, with all the problems we have, and would never, ever cheat. I respect him far too much.

Tereza more or less knows: all of those nightmares, right? Tomáš is being open to some extent - he is not taking the kind of precautions described by HT. Plus, there is some homoerotic attraction between Tereza and Sabina. So it is really very complex. Plus, the movie shows how there is no symmetry and no "fairness" - when Tereza tries to also have a partner on the side, she does not enjoy it, so she stops. So it is asymmetrical. Plus, Tomáš himself is very unusual in that he quickly exhausts the pool of women who would be dubbed attractive per conventional standards, and develops an interest in other women - those who might not appear "pretty" to his friends, but who are, nonetheless, interesting to him. So he is an agent of loving kindness in that regard - he pays attention to women who would be overlooked by other guys. And Tomáš does not have mistresses the way LarSo considers "affording" a mistress - there are casual encounters that do not last long, and there is Sabina, who is a close friend, who predated Tereza, and who helps employ Tereza (and, there is that aforementioned allusion to homoerotic bond between her and Tereza, so lots of layers there). Sabina is thus not a mistress, but much more than a mistress. And, clearly, he does not "afford" Sabina the way LarSo considers "affording" mistresses (LarSo, sorry for comparing!). Plus, Sabina is hugely meaningful to him on many many levels - he is not "using her vagina for intercourse because his wife's vagina is not lubricated enough". So I was not in any way trying to use Kundera to justify LarSo's proposal. I was responding to Healing's remark regarding the European culture, rather, by drawing on movie references. But you hail from London yourself - you are better positioned to opine on the European culture.

+ Tomáš is marginalized and disenfranchised in the middle of the novel, for political reasons. He has encounters with women who order his services. He is not "affording" them - he actually might be much poorer than they are in economic terms. And Sabina clearly does not take his money. Sabina and Tomáš are equals.

LarSo is talking about "affording" a mistress in his OP. So it is that typical story of an older man who has enough means and social status to entertain the thought of adding a mistress or two to avoid dealing with the issues raised by the wife's vaginal dryness. It is a very different story from Kundera's story. Very different.

I'be only been reading this as I just don't get why sex is such the big deal it is! Don't get me wrong I love sex as much as the next person but it's just one side of my relationship. I think to have a healthy relationship it needs to be a whole one. There are other ways to find sexual enjoyment if your partner is willing.

Have you and you wife tried anything to help her feel better? Talked to her doctor or just talked about it together?