Sex outside marriage

Exactly. It's really stupid that society forces people to wear clothing. Clothing is useful for staying warm and so forth. But why are we forced to hide our bodies with clothing? It makes no sense.

Wow yeahh - what a life! Naked, out in the wild, - no house payment to make, no bills, open sex -

.. Reminds me of this poor old guy - he said:

"Honey, 25 years ago, we had a cheap apartment, a cheap car, slept on a small sofa bed and watched a 10 inch black and white TV, but at least I got to sleep with a hot 25-year-old blonde every night.
Now, we have a nice house, nice cars, big king size bed and plasma screen TV, but now I'm sleeping with a 50-year-old woman. It seems to me that you are not holding up your side of things."
She told me to go out and find a hot 25-year-old blonde, and she would make sure that I would once again be living in a cheap apartment, driving a cheap car, sleeping on a sofa bed and she would buy me a 10-inch black & white TV."

I'm being facetious HT. I know more than just a bit about the philosophy of free society. Lived in SF during the '60's - saw a lot. Degenerate living like beasts under the guise of freedom. Some people had true ideals but way too many people exploited the freedoms and the whole thing collapsed like a lawless society. There are good reasons for constraints. Clothing, marriage, monogamy, it all has its purpose. There is a bit of the beast in all of us. Some do a better job keeping the beast in than others.

Yes, I gathered that you weren't serious... but do be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm no hippie, believe me, but what's wrong with a little freedom?

but why? if he likes the marriage otherwise, why would he want to end it? he said clearly that he likes the marriage otherwise. Clearly he can afford to end it, but he does not want to - he likes it.

what is this a propos of? I am not following. It is a nice joke, but it is a joke about a woman who is able to take advantage of the legal arrangement that entitles former spouses to support and half of the assets in community property states and a varied portion of the assets in other states. So the woman talks of her advantage being protected by the legal system. How is that related to making clothing optional? Maybe I missed the connection...then sorry.

I do not think so. You talk about it as if it were her FAULT, and it is not her FAULT, it is her VULNERABILITY, EMBARRASSMENT, HURT, and all the rest of that.

Maybe we should just wait for LarSo since he is not responding. LarSo - oral sex, rectal sex (using a synonym go get out of asterisks) no good? I have not tried rectal sex, but many people like it a lot. Lots of lube and patience, apparently, help people ease into it. Be extra cautious not to transfer germs from the rectum to the vagina - otherwise big trouble would await you.

Oral sex is straightforward and does not need lube/prep/caution, so it is easier than rectal sex.

Have you tried those obvious things?

Nothing is wrong with freedom. But there's a lot of wisdom in the saying "your freedom ends where my nose begins" - and visa versa. Laws are for the lawless. I don't know where you're at in an personal relationship, but if you were with someone you really loved and cherished, do you want to share her with not just another man but plural - other men?

Ok, some have open marriages. I honestly don't know how that will work in the long run. Maybe someone here can enlighten me to a successful marriage and happy life sharing your spouse - the idea of that gives me the creeps! Yeah, it would be great if it worked one way, but is that fair? What if she wants 'freedom' too!?

I don't claim to have all the answers, but one thing that keeps me from over reaching my boundaries of good sense is, I know NO ONE has it all. What gets these rich celebs in trouble is, with their money & prestige, they want MORE - they're never satisfied, they end up reaching beyond a safety zone - of drugs, partying, or some bizarre behavior and they self destruct.

So what's wrong with a little freedom!!?? Hey, you HAVE freedom. But if you reach beyond, you're liable to lose the freedom you have. So be happy! Be glad for the freedom you have!

Indeed, we would not know for sure unless LarSo shows back up and clarifies, but I would be willing to bet that she just doesn't want sex and is thankful for her medical condition to give her a good reason not to do it. Therefore I would also guess that no alternatives have been tried.

Women often just stop wanting sex. It is a very common problem. And then they use excuses instead of just coming out an admitting they don't want sex (the famous perpetual "headache" or with my ex-gf it was I'm tired, it's too hot, it's too cold, whatever). But I do not understand the thought process of women who stop having sex with their man and actually think for a second that he's not getting it somewhere else.

Yes, she has an actual medical problem, and that problem isn't her fault, but there are two types of people. There are people who take solace in the fact that their problems aren't their fault and then there are people who fix their problems or find a way around them.

Ahh perhaps a lame attempt on my part to show the intolerance a wife might have for her hubby sleeping with a 25 year old - and he's tossed out on the street - moral of the story, I think, is it's better to live in style inside with the 50 yr old spouse than to be tossed out!

Why does this idea give you creeps? Are the creeps visceral or intellectual? If they are visceral, then sure, that is your gut instinct talking so go with it; if they are intellectual, then we can discuss the assumptions to go into your freaking out from thinking along these lines. These assumptions are not at all self-evident. You seem to believe that they are self-evident to EVERYBODY but they aren't. The idea of a one lifetime partner seems much weirder to me than the idea of sharing. Much - by an order of magnitude. And?.. Has the society more or less given up on this idea? Well, it has, save for some pockets of society. And?.. Could people living in Middle Ages (this is a random example and I do realize that the sovereigns in Middle Ages had the right of the first night with their vassals' brides, etc. etc. - the example is random) predict that our society would give up on the idea of one life time partner, save for some pockets? Most of them could not. And?.. To them the idea of one lifetime partner seemed self-evident. But to you it probably does not seem self-evident.

What you said about one way fairness is not clear. Fair to whom?

I get your point, I was just unclear of the connection with clothing. Never mind though.

I am afraid that we have intimidated him, jointly and separately, over the course of this thread.

Since it is his thread and not an aimless discussion, I will refrain from posting until I hear from him.

The example you gave is fine, and I agree. I am not religious either. This is our personal views, not wrong at all, land of the free etc.

However, I think you may think a little too black and white. Let me give you an example too. Here in the UK football - or soccer as you call it, is huge. HUGE! And those footballers are stars, celebs. A lot of young folk look up to them as a role model. They want to be a footballer when they grow up. But then scandals break.. they get caught cheating on their wives with girls and prostitutes, there are rape allegations (and occasionally convictions), drink driving & deaths, they get caught taking drugs. They live a rock and roll lifestyle and are paid very very well. Sure, they do their job as you stated you like, play football.. but what about all the other stuff that folk see? Do you really think the rest is ok and a healthy inspiration for children? This is what I mean, that by default, they are role models and they have a responsibility to behave with morals. They step into the limelight, get to reap all the rewards, £100k a month wage, adoration, play a game for a living, so surely they should accept the fact that they have a responsibility outside the game of football? If they went home after a game, never spoke to the press, never went to a nightclub or red carpet event, never took on lots of advertising to sell us a product, and basically kept away from all the trappings of fame, then, just then perhaps they can be entitled to a completely private life. Play with fire and you will get burned. They should not have it both ways, and this is where you and I differ.

To be honest, it's something people should consider whenever stepping into the public eye. People hold fame and celebrity in such high regard (not my cup of tea, sure) but it happens and they, if a decent person, will recognise that it is a responsibility. Perhaps not one asked for, but it should be recognised.

I have no idea how this was relevant to my post you highlighted!

Then perhaps you should chose your words wisely on your previous post. A woman refusing for other reasons is not relevant to this thread and the OP's problem. Otherwise it comes over as you agreeing to him and that any woman who doesn't have sex deserves for him to go elsewhere.

I think that may be more about you.. too hot, too cold? Laughing!! I think that she just didn't like you.

I completely agree. Women's excuses for not having sex are ludicrous. That was the entire point I was trying to bring up. and no, it's not only me that has this problem. It is a well known and well documented fact that women often stop wanting sex after a period of time of being in a relationship. It has to do with the biological expectation that children will have been produced at some point and her body stops feeling the urge to reproduce and starts going into taking care of a baby mode even if no baby is present. This causes her to desire things like stability and money rather than sex. No, this does not happen to all women all the time but is very common.

The whole sum of this thread comes down to one simple thing ... honor.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If man doesn't have honor, then he isn't a man.

If a man is not in an "open" relationship (which can work for some couples) that he's negotiated with his partner and if that man is not happy, then he needs to put on his big-boy panties and talk to her about it. Maybe they part ways, maybe they work it out. Either way, sneaking behind her back and cheating is a coward's act. Man-up as they say.

No buts, no excuses. The reason he may be feeling the need for other people is irrelevant, he needs to be honest and forthcoming. Period.

Please do not twist what I meant. I am saying that a woman to come up with some excuses about being too hot or cold is a sign that she doesn't like you, and the relationship perhaps should come to an end. You also should've taken the hint? I myself find it very hard to sleep with someone I am no longer attracted to, because unlike your own thoughts about sex, I find it more emotional than just an act. I doubt very much it's about biology in your case as you're too young, I think it's more to do with how the relationship is going. I know people who have had long, sexual relationships - 40+ years, but they also have a loving, kind, respectful relationship, full of trust. Not games, like the ones you say you play - ie not letting your partner know where you are going or how long or playing games with being nasty to them about their personality whenever they raise an issue that they are not happy with.

And please do not send me private message telling me what I can or cannot say, anything you wish to say to me can be out in the open. I am not interested otherwise.

After reading over the last few days I doubt LarSo will be back. He wanted someone to agree with is idea or action if he has already started it.

HT really some women be it out of shame will not go get help! Maybe she feels like if she goes to get help it's her fault then, that her really is "that age" or that she is not longer a real women. Just because some women use lame excuses to get out of having sex with you does not mean all women are like this with all men.

This is something that maybe he has decided was a good action as talking about it with her got him no where. He might have also just decided there was nothing else to make things better! I'm not trying to say it's the man's fault for wanting a women on the side but you seem to point the finger at the women.

Yes, she has a problem that isn't her fault and is a fact of life. Which leaves her feeling bad about herself. She needs help but is scared to get it or has no idea where to start. His actions are not helping her and if he really loved her he should be more caring and helpful.

Ok. I sent you the message privately out of courtesy, but as you wish. Please don't post comments that have no other intent than to be rude and insulting. I find it quite disconcerting that this, supposedly a support forum, has so many people on it that post personal attacks against other users. It would be nice if you did not do that. i don't feel any need to discuss this matter further in this thread in an effort not to derail the thread too severely. If you would like further discussion, please do feel free to PM me. Thanks.

There is no insult as far as I am concerned. Up to you how you took it.

My apologies, if you are offended by my words. I explained, to the OP, in the first place, the need for openness about opening the marriage.

Otherwise, I have stated, my opinions about affairs.

I wasn't certain, that his wife was physically unable to have sex. There are women and men, that use sex as a weapon.

This thread seems to be touching on a nerve of yours. I will respectfully, remove myself from further discussion, with you, on the topic.