[H3rmit]

I look back at my life after 50 years, and I am still frustrated in the present by the same thing that has been true pretty much all along: I have no friends. And what is a friend? Someone in my building I can chatter with briefly? Someone on a website who I chat with who is on my friends list? Someone I sit with in a classroom frequently, or who will chat with me on the train on the way home? I appreciate having all of these social acquaintances, I really do, but that is not what I consider a friend. I've even had work acquaintances that I've done related recreational or professional things with. I treasure those. I make effort to keep in touch, but no one makes the effort back. They might respond on rare occasion, but I can see I'm not needed. I'm extra.

A friend is what I hear other people talking about - someone who is there for you, like in the old Carly Simon song, "You've got a friend." That one always brings tears, like when I remembered it this morning. A friend is someone you are close to, who is interested in how you're doing and what you're doing, who is comfortable with you. A friend is valued, and all these characteristics are mutual. Maybe you get what I mean so I don't have to go on and on.

My husband is a true friend (though of course marriage has challenges) and he feels like my only true friend ever. It's not healthy to have only one person in your life. For either of us. But he is not interested in friends and suspicious of them, because he has always been hurt and used by them in his past.

I had two neighbourhood friends, when I was a small child. At puberty we parted ways, partly because I left the neighbourhood and partly because I no longer had anything in common with them. They became teenage girls who do all the things you expect them to, and I could not go there. I became more of an outcast than ever, it seemed. I became invisible. I never had a single friend in all of my school career, be it kindergarten through graduating university.

I struggled with all people things, not getting social stuff unless I got the concepts from a book and then tried them out. Zero intuition or understanding of feeling. I can see why no one liked me, since I'm not normal. But this morning I was remembering how I worked closely with a group of teaching colleagues for almost a decade. Always the outsider. Except when a shop steward was needed. Then I was very successful, but still no friends in the sense of closeness and connection. Just professional stuff. For teaching, I had to learn the human interaction part from a book. For me, teaching was about a circus of minds. I learnt the social forms, but that's not the plane I exist on. It's a very artificial layer for me. I value my situational friends, but I want more.

I can be so stupid about people.

I'm posting this hoping for some understanding, and a chance to learn from other people's experiences. Any thoughts that come to your mind?

[dancinglady]

I have the exact same problems. I wish we both had answers for each other but I dont. Good thing you have a husband. I am totally alone and I am 64. I have been totally alone except for 13 years of marriage and my husband died. I am a society outcast

[freaka]

well, i think that i am pretty much incapable of friendships. there are 3 women i talk to sporadically, but the times are getting further and further apart. as much as i desire and want closeness with other women, it becomes unbearably difficult to maintain. so i often cut the relation, and hope they won't contact me anymore.

the reason that prompted me to join this forum is to have some casual and healthy interaction with people, because i do desire and need some communication with someone besides my husband.

dancinglady, does being a member here meet your need for social interaction to some degree?

[Steiner of Thule]

Friends are hard to come by. I haven't really had any friends in awhile. Few years now but then again the people I considered friends in the past weren't really friends. Just me staring through a glass and realizing these people were gonna be rid of me soon.

[Lonesome Me]

I too have no actual friends. I put too high of a price on my friendship. I give all and only expect the same. So at 50 plus I have given up and decided that now a days a dog is the only one that knows the True meaning of the term. Unfortunately it is something now i must wait for but once I am on my own it will be my High on my list of priorities.
Best wishes
P

[dancinglady]

Originally Posted by freaka

well, i think that i am pretty much incapable of friendships. there are 3 women i talk to sporadically, but the times are getting further and further apart. as much as i desire and want closeness with other women, it becomes unbearably difficult to maintain. so i often cut the relation, and hope they won't contact me anymore.

the reason that prompted me to join this forum is to have some casual and healthy interaction with people, because i do desire and need some communication with someone besides my husband.

dancinglady, does being a member here meet your need for social interaction to some degree?

To answer your question is no. It is just a place to be to hear others pain and try to help from my years of experience in pain. It doesn't seem to help but I try.

[michaelgregoryii]

I sometimes feel like having friends are complicated. Before I had friends, I used to wonder daily how that would be. But when I did managed to get a few close friends, it wasn't as great as I thought.

I'm not sure why, but I love and yet hate being alone. I feel like I don't have to concern myself with other people problems (I know, messed up right?) and yet I still have that small desire to spend with other humans.

I think a solution I've been considering is paying someone to hang out with me so I could shove them off when I grow tired of them.

Real true friends are nonexistent to me only because when i make "friends" they want something. Theres no such thing as a friend that doesn't want something. If sharing stories, laughs, good times, and experiences were enough I'd have no problems. Always comes down to how much money you have or want to spend and that type of friendship doesnt interest me :/
I get where you're coming from.

[einsam]

I don't have anything to say except that this is how it is for me in my 20's, and how it's been since my late teens. I was lucky if I had two people to spend time with (whether or not we were close) in my early schooling years, but for a long time it's just been me. No advice out there has so much as made a dent in the slow downward spiral.

I guess I should be glad I was born a nerd and will always have computers.

[IceCreamKid]

This jumped out at me from your comments: "I learnt the social forms, but that's not the plane I exist on. It's a very artificial layer for me."

It could be that people did/do like you but that you did not/do not recognize it. I do think it becomes harder to make new friends the older one gets. People get busy with their own lives and I think their attitudes start to become set about so many things. As a divorced woman, I find it very difficult in real life to be friends with married women and couples. They're so busy and have so many obligations! Most of my friends are much younger than I am. Have you considered seeking out mentoring relationships? I can see that you felt taken advantage of in the past, but I have found my friendships with younger people very rewarding, and we have learned from each other, and actually have fun in our differences.

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

It could be that people did/do like you but that you did not/do not recognize it.

As a divorced woman, I find it very difficult in real life to be friends with married women and couples.

Have you considered seeking out mentoring relationships? I can see that you felt taken advantage of in the past, but I have found my friendships with younger people very rewarding, and we have learned from each other, and actually have fun in our differences.

Oh, I'm sure there were positive signs I missed, as well as negative ones. But if they didn't like me enough to pursue the next level of hanging around and keeping in touch, then they didn't like me enough to want become a friend of the kind I describe.

As a non-breeding female, I find it hard to relate to many females. They just assume you want/ed kids. Anything outside that sphere is unfathomable to them. So there's most of the female population right there. I've offended away a couple of female acquaintances accidentally in saying how I feel about reproduction. So the fact that either sex of person is or wants to be a parent basically creates an instant barrier. And there are several other barriers like that. As an oddball, only other oddballs accept me in their sphere, for the most part. As people get older and their parenting role subsides, perhaps they can again turn to other things in the world I inhabit. Oh, yeah, I also have no interest in fashion and makeup, and basically I'm a guy-type female, except I also hate sports with a passion. Normally I don't mention it any more, but it's yet another disconnect from most people. Rather than using these common things as an entry to deeper connection, they're minefields I step over hoping/waiting to get beyond. Such is social life.

Mentoring - hey, I've already raised my husband to being an adult. That was enough for me. Seriously, I feel like an utter failure, and also being an oddball, I don't think I have anything to mentor anyone with. More like I need a mentor still. Also, I was a professional teacher for quite a few years. I've had it with that helping role. I want something for me. Teaching for me was about minds. The social part was basically a high-wire act that left me exhausted.

Also, just a correction, it wasn't me that felt used by anyone but my husband had that experience. I am generally of no use to anyone, clearly. I didn't mind being a helper on canoe trips or letting my hoarder co-worker stay in my place when I was away, so she could have a bath for a change. Didn't mind at all, didn't feel used. I'm happy to be able to give a little, when there is need. But when people assume I'll be a chauffeur and drive across town for them when we have perfectly good transit if they would only get themselves organized, sorry, no, I don't do that. I set limits sometimes.

Hello H3rmit: Well... I guess I don't have much to offer here since I'm pretty-much an "urban hermit" myself. I neither have nor seek IRL friends. I guess there was a time when I might have been interested in such a thing. But, as I have aged, & not had any real friends, I've lost interest.

I think part of my problem has always been, my interests have always been so far outside of the mainstream, the likelihood of finding anyone else IRL who would share them is vanishingly small. This is one way in which the internet is valuable. It enables me to connect with others who have had similar experiences & who have similar interests, although even on-line I find few people I can really relate to in more than a superficial way. And of course they are, at best, only virtual friends... not IRL ones.

By the way, perhaps you already know this, but with regard to the "circles-of -trust" concept, Parker J. Palmer (who developed the techniques) has been an educator, & has done allot of writing on the subject.

[H3rmit]

Skeezyks - I've been surfing libraries looking for your book. My local library has it as audio. I've seen a lot of those other educator titles you mentioned, at my university library.

I have been much of a hermit, too, but I have learned that knowing people even superficially allows for exchange of information that is valuable as well as other exchanges. I really enjoy that people in my building know I'm a gardener, and I can give away some of my veggies from time to time And I am not thinking zucchini here, but really good veggies. Being a hermit is good. It does often feel weird, though, to be a water drop in the oil stream or vice versa.

It hurts deeply, still, that I was unable to make friends all through my life. Somehow the urge to heal that is there.

[nervous puppy]

Hi H3rmit, I had to chuckle at your comment "non-breeding female". I can very much relate to that. It doesn't matter which gender either. Many of the people I meet in my business love to talk about their kids. Mine are furry with 4 legs and I love to talk about them, but no one cares. I've tried to have friends but I find it difficult to have a close relationship. There a two other women that I've known for many years that we can count on each other in a time of need. Like I have to work late, could you maybe go let my dogs out? However, I can't express my thought or feelings to either one about my depression or mental state. They are fun time friends. Not somebody you could run to, to cry on their shoulder.
I'm trying to learn how to talk to my husband about things since he's the closest thing to a best friend that I've ever had.
Like you I struggle with reading people. It happens all the time and I never see it. If my husband is there, he'll tell me. Usually it's "didn't you see that what you said bothered her?" No I didn't. Not a clue.
After living this way for 50+ yrs, it is what it is.

Totally, completely understand where you're coming from. Every time I start a new job, or start school, or enter some new realm where there is going to be social interaction with a new group of people I think, "Maybe this time I'll find a group of people I click with!" But I never really do. I am clueless when it comes to people. I always think that I'm doing a fine job with a group only to find out that everyone has been hanging out without me, or that everyone has been pissed off at me for weeks for some offhanded remark I made, and I'm oblivious to the fact that any dynamic has changed. And forget about dating--I haven't gone on a date since this time two years ago (despite being on various dating sites since I've not actually had anyone contact me from those sites) and I've not had a real relationship since 2009. People tell me I'm beautiful, smart, funny, blah blah blah, that I'll find friends and relationships if I just stop looking so hard and all the cliche things people always say. But I'll tell you, I've not really been looking for several years and here I am, still alone. So that doesn't actually hold water. And the one actual friend I have (and the people in my life who aren't friends) thinks I'm rather negative about all of it, but at 36 years old, I've just come to realize that this is how things are for me. I don't know why. I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what.

I try not to focus on needing anyone, and try to keep relationships with the opposite sex out of my mind completely, but every once in a while someone comes into my sites that I just really, really want to get to know. But I know that they'll never notice me, not in that way. And it makes me sad and self-conscious. And mad that I didn't have my guard up a little more.

Originally Posted by H3rmit

Skeezyks - I've been surfing libraries looking for your book. My local library has it as audio. I've seen a lot of those other educator titles you mentioned, at my university library.

I have been much of a hermit, too, but I have learned that knowing people even superficially allows for exchange of information that is valuable as well as other exchanges. I really enjoy that people in my building know I'm a gardener, and I can give away some of my veggies from time to time And I am not thinking zucchini here, but really good veggies. Being a hermit is good. It does often feel weird, though, to be a water drop in the oil stream or vice versa.

It hurts deeply, still, that I was unable to make friends all through my life. Somehow the urge to heal that is there.

This is, for me, a very interesting Thread, H3rmit. Thanks for starting it! Yes, although I call myself an "urban hermit", the fact is I know quite a few people superficially. I live in a small suburb that has a large concentration of older adults. Also I'm married. My wife & I have a small dog & either my wife, or I , or both of us take him for at least one walk a day... more when the weather is decent (which hasn't happened recently.) We often encounter other older adults who live in our neighborhood. Often they're out walking their dogs too! However for me these are all the most superficial of acquaintances... nothing more than, "Hi, how are you today...", etc. (My wife tends to be more social.)

Personally, my life at this point is about seeking "enlightenment". I don't really even know what that means, or what the point of it is, assuming there even is one! But I know it is the path I'm on. Being something of a hermit is, for me, an important part of this. It may sound condescending... & I don't intend it that way, but my experience has been there is little, if anything, to be gained as a result of being involved with other people to any great extent. They are at least as far off track as I am. And so, taking up precious hours spending time with people who don't understand what I'm doing, & don't particularly care, is just a waste of time & an obfuscation.

On the other hand, I have certainly had my own helping of mental health struggles over the years. So being here on PC helps me to deal with that aspect of myself. And in the process, hopefully, I am able to be of some small benefit to other PC members along the way.

[Gus1234U]

what an interesting, thought-provoking thread~! i hadn't stopped to think how many other people there are like me, going thru life wondering what's going on with other people; not having deep friendships that last; being quick to wander off.

a little while back, i realized that i had never bonded with my parents, and was a vagabond at a very young age (2), a caretaker of my siblings at 5, at risk all my life of various kinds of abuse and injury; all these things took their toll on my ability to trust and forum bonds with others, esp. others who were different than myself.

i have come to be my own best friend, and it's not an ideal relationship LOLOL. ohh, the work still to be done to be at peace with who i am~! yet, i believe that i will get there, if not in this lifetime, then in the next.

one endeavors to persevere~

[Luned]

It is good that you have your husband, Hermit. Even though he is only one friend, it is better than none, and how many do you really need?
I have lived a life of moving around, with my husband I have moved 10 times in 15 years so I always found myself in a new location, having to make new friends.
I can be a very lonely life, moving so often.
I told myself, that to find friends, you have to be a friend to someone. Be interested in others, see how they are, what they are doing, if they need anything. Basically the same thing that you wish for that someone else would do for you.
Hugs to you!

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by Luned

I told myself, that to find friends, you have to be a friend to someone. Be interested in others, see how they are, what they are doing, if they need anything. Basically the same thing that you wish for that someone else would do for you.

Agreed. That is how I met my husband. Just trying to be a friend, online. I felt some other kind of connection/attraction, but didn't express it as he was much younger than me. Turned out he felt the same way.

But, yes, doing that, I totally agree, is the way.

I had a bizarre and very hurtful ex-friend experience yesterday. It's too much to say right now, have to process it a bit more. Enough to say that I take LittleDidgee's point, that turning other ways, in my case inward, seems like a good direction of focus. I'll take people as they come, not expecting friendship of the kind I idealize, ever. If it comes, it comes. And leave the past behind more, in some ways.