[SHepburn]

Hi there

I would like some help with regards to a friendship that I don't want to end, but fear I may have to back off. I have copied the last email to each other and I would like to know if either of us are emotionally manipulative or just plain hurt and vulnerable. If you need any further clarification, please do let me know. I'm sorry for the length of this post, but if anyone could help/advise, I would be very grateful: (if you're wondering about the Chimp and Human bit in the emails it's taken from the book The Chimp Paradox)

"[name],

I don't know how to tell you this in a way thqt will help or make a difference to you so I will say it how I would say it to myself and hope you can work it out.

Everything you have written is about you but you seem to be trying to blame me. YOU get to choose how you are when we are together, I don't force you to do anything and if you don't want to do anything then I will never force or manipulate you.

I have nothing to do with the men you choose, I simply am one.

Yes I think what happens between us is fair. We are both adults who get on. What's the problem?

The problem is that you are happy (even though you aren't) when we are together and you want more after it ends.

[name], you are the cauwse of all your problems. You want to be more popular or have better or more friends? Up to you. You want to have a relationship? Up to you. You want to be better at piano? Up to you. You want a better job? Up to you.

I can help if you want me to but really it comes down to you.

You are a classic under-achiever. You blame external factors, you lash out in frustration when it is all about how you move throught the universe due to your choices.

If you read your email you would be better off sending it to yourself. I don't have to do anything, all you are saying is how YOU want to be when we are together. Maybe you need to write it to see it, I don't know. I do know you certainly don't understand what you are doing.

It's emotional blackmail on one level. Essentially you are threatening me that what we do will stop unless I commit to you.

And so comes the reason for me not committing. Heidi you drain me, you say you will be an amazing friend and yet that's what we are right now and you keep asking the same question again and again. You are the problem and the solution. Until you can be responsible for your own thoughts I will not be with you. There is my counter emotional blackmail offer.

All your problems are of your own making. I don't want to be around that. There are enough problems which are actually on the outside (banks feature quite highly right now) without having to deal with stuff that is between you and you.

How many f****** times do we have to have this coonversation. I know you are not happy with how we are right now. I understand. You want more of a committment. I refuse to committ to somebody who is going to wear me down with self indulgent insecurity. You are so attractive on so many levels but your inability to control your own mind will probably ruin any relationship you ever try and have and it certainly holds you back in life from being the best you can be.

What kind of friend deliberatley talks about something the other friend said they were tired of talking about?

PLEASE STOP ASKING ME ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS! We are on the other side of the planet with no idea what or where either of us wants to be. That is hard enough without being with somebody who will cry about everything because she isn't getting her own way. Either accept us for what we are right now, choose to do things diffferently if you want, it's all entirely up to you. I love being with your human and I feel really close to you when we make love. If you don'lt want to then stop. Fine. I will have to accept that. Just stop blaming me for your choices and stop sending b******* emails about feelings when really they are emails to yourself.

The essence is this - if you don't like something, nobody forces you to do it. Stop then. Play chess, email, fine. We never need to see each other again if yu don't want to. It's not what I want but I will accept what you want if it makes you happy. But then, there's the problem. What makes you happy?

You see, if you can find the truth right down there in the weeds of what you write I know that you none of what I have written will help or stop you asking these ridiculous questions. The only thing that will help you is to come to terms with yourself, make yourself happy, stop needing others and you will be more relaxed around them.

Sit in front of a mirror and read your email to yourself. It mostly reads like a pep talk. Just stop involving me.

I would love to marry you when you are happy with yourself. In the meantime I have loads to get on with that actually charges the battery and doesn't drain it.

I apologise if I sound frustrated but I had asked not to do this again and the first thing you do is this. Nice friend.

Xx

********************************************************



I see. The reason my Chimp is so alert is because there is something not quite right about our whatever-this-is-ship and so I will have to figure out why I attract a certain type of man and build upon my self respect.

We keep going over the same thing because of the fact that when we're together we become a 'couple'. We become very intimate and then we part and it goes back to being just friends again. If I had more self respect and less of a desire to go along with things that make me feel uncomfortable in order to be loved, then perhaps I wouldn't go through the grieving process everytime we part. Creating a bad habit and causing myself unnecessary suffering.

Of course it's all about acceptance and it seems my Chimp doesn't like the fact that someone, whom I love doesn't feel the same and thinks that what we have as something very different indeed, but acts as if we are in a relationship when we're together.

I would like to know if you ever think that what happens between us is fair? Behaving like we're in a relationship for one moment and then completely withdrawing the next? I know how you deal with a situation is key. Accepting what is, important, but I don't think my Chimp accepts how we become a 'couple' when we meet and then not when we part. My Human finds it unfair. And I have not listened to the Universe.

This will be the last time I speak about this, as I'm sure you will be glad to hear, but I would like acknowledgment and a heartfelt response about what you think to this as it would be appreciated and mean a lot to my Human and my Chimp.

When we meet again, I cannot behave like we are a 'couple'. I cannot kiss you like lovers do, make love with you, hold your hand, talk about futures, and engage in conversations where you want to marry me when you know that when we part nothing of that nature will happen.
I can do this if there is commitment to that. A commitment to being in a relationship together, to spending time together. A commitment to grow and develop together. Unless we both agree on this, I cannot behave in the way we have done every time we meet up.

But as you don't know where you want to be, what you want to do and with whom you want to spend your life with, then it's unfair to keep putting my expectations on you. I can be friends. Hang out as friends (friends who do not make love to one another or act as if they are in a relationship). You cannot say to me, "if I ever sort myself out, then you'd be the one I'd marry." Personally, I think this gives a false hope and that you don't seem to give yourself a chance that you can sort yourself out.
Unless you want to commit to having a relationship with me, don't give me false hope when it comes to matters of the heart. Both my Chimp and Human need 100% commitment for a relationship because I would give that in return. They need to spend time with that person and be rest assured that that is want the other person wants as well.

I would still like to meet up with you, email, Skype, play chess, play cards and have fun, travel to places with you, to know how you are and what's happening in your life, do what friends do. I will always help if you want it and I will always care about you and I will always love you. I will commit 100% to that, but I cannot do the 'couple' thing that we do. You may have other friends that you can do that with, you may be able to deal with it better than me, but I can't. Not anymore.

My filters aren't always set to s*** and I don't always complain. As a friend to you I will be amazing, but please don't bring the relationship card to the table unless you are 100% serious and committed about it, that you really want to spend your life with me.

I hope this email makes sense and a heartfelt response to what I have said would be greatly appreciated.

xxx"

[arundelle]

Seems like an honest conversation to me, which is a great thing.
It also seems like you both want different things, which completely sucks.
I think you aren't being manipulative, just very sensitive.
If it was me, and if it was possible, I would back off. I would try to bring it back to a very superficial level, with no talking about triggering topics, and see if it's possible.
Then, slowly bring the topics back, and if either of you feels hurt, tell the other immediately.
Right now, you need to put some limits out there. That's okay. If you don't use temporary limits, you won't be able to heal, and your friendship will be doomed.

[avlady]

i think you should seperate for awhile, see what happens. absence makes the heart grow fonder. if you are both not on the same page with this relationship,it is doomed. you need to let each other know the truth about each other. then you can get back on with your lives. you are in limbo here. please let this person know you can't take it anymore if they are going to continue behaving like this, it sounds like you did so already though keep us infomed and good luck

[hannabee]

So this must be a friends with benefits arrangement that is certainly not working for you, but is for him. Sounds like he is trying to keep you on the line, so to speak, but he is not going to commit. I don't know how old you are or how long this has been going on, but, to me at least ,it doesn't seem to be to your benefit. You need to rethink exactly what you are getting and decide if it is enough. He has no more to give, at this point in time, anyway. I think I might look elsewhere. Big hug.

[SHepburn]

Originally Posted by hannabee

So this must be a friends with benefits arrangement that is certainly not working for you, but is for him. Sounds like he is trying to keep you on the line, so to speak, but he is not going to commit. I don't know how old you are or how long this has been going on, but, to me at least ,it doesn't seem to be to your benefit. You need to rethink exactly what you are getting and decide if it is enough. He has no more to give, at this point in time, anyway. I think I might look elsewhere. Big hug.

He would never answer that question if posed to him (FWB). Thank you for replying to my post. It has been very helpful.

[SHepburn]

Originally Posted by arundelle

Seems like an honest conversation to me, which is a great thing.
It also seems like you both want different things, which completely sucks.
I think you aren't being manipulative, just very sensitive.
If it was me, and if it was possible, I would back off. I would try to bring it back to a very superficial level, with no talking about triggering topics, and see if it's possible.
Then, slowly bring the topics back, and if either of you feels hurt, tell the other immediately.
Right now, you need to put some limits out there. That's okay. If you don't use temporary limits, you won't be able to heal, and your friendship will be doomed.

We try to be as honest as possible, although, I get the feeling he isn't so open about all of his feelings. Thank you for saying I'm not being manipulated. Your reply has been of great help and something I am trying to do. Thank you

[SHepburn]

Originally Posted by avlady

i think you should seperate for awhile, see what happens. absence makes the heart grow fonder. if you are both not on the same page with this relationship,it is doomed. you need to let each other know the truth about each other. then you can get back on with your lives. you are in limbo here. please let this person know you can't take it anymore if they are going to continue behaving like this, it sounds like you did so already though keep us infomed and good luck

Thank you for your response. It has helped and perhaps I need to accept the situation as it is, that we aren't on the same page, which really hurts.
Thank you for the support.