So no dating for "socially awkward" guys?

You don't have to believe but I think your negative attitudes about people comes from some type of pain that needs to be addressed. By better I mean being more positive and seeing people and life in a brighter light. It can't be a happy life to have such negative attitude. Life is too short

I should probably clarify a couple things.

The first time I noticed white knight guy talking to this girl was a few weeks ago. It did not seem like they were bf/gf or close friends, basically I just noticed him talking to her for a minute or so and then they went their separate ways and I didn't see them talk again. Then about a week ago, I saw the girl there again, and I noticed this other guy(whom I will call short buff guy) talking to her. It was pretty interesting, as white knight was also there, and he seemed to be eying her in a stalkerish sort of way. I saw white knight guy talk to her briefly, then saw her go her own way. Then as she was at a machine, I noticed white knight guy walk over there and talk to her some more. Then I noticed short buff guy go over and talk to them. It looked like short buff guy introduced himself to white knight guy and they shook hands. Then a couple days later I see her talking to short buff guy. I pass by in the middle of their conversation and it sounds they are on pretty friendly terms, and they were talking standing there talking for a while. Don't remember if I saw white knight guy there on that day or what. Then yesterday I saw her and white knight guy, and I noticed at one point they were standing pretty close facing each other while talking and I'm pretty sure I saw touching. That's when I said YIKES I should stop looking at this girl(white knight guy is pretty built btw, as are his friends). Then the incident happened. I avoided looking at the girl too long for obvious reasons, but from what I saw she was turning red, and she yelled something at them, probably telling them to stop fighting. This was in response to the fight of course. I didn't really see her reaction to the guy approaching her, but she didn't have much time to react since white knight guy was right there and came over immediately.

You're right I don't know ALL the details. However, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that short buff guy was approaching this girl to harass her right in front of her boyfriend or even a tough guy friend. It looked to me like he was just trying to make friendly conversation. So I think it's safe for me to assume the this is either A) a territorial jealousy type situation or B) a white knight wannabe hero type situation. But either way, this guy was viciously attacked for talking to a girl.

As for the looks aspect, well, I often see people claiming that girls don't want to be approached by men at the gym and that it is rude. Well, as you can see, this good looking guy approached this girl at the gym and now they seem to be dating.

As far as the age aspect, I said that is possible, but I didn't assume it was the case. It's just a possibility.

Stbguy stated quite clearly that he is referring to 10% of the population, "the weeds" as he put it, and that he thinks 90% of women are not like that. How is that sexist? Is it sexist to suggest anything negative about ANY women?

But he is totally right about the double standards. It is quite obvious that society does impose special rules on men that women are not subjected to. For example, would a woman EVER be called rude and disrespectful for striking up a conversation with a man she finds attractive? No. But as you can see men not only get labeled as rude but they are even physically attacked for it! This is the real sexism. This is what you should be up in arms about, not stbguy's comments.

Well, been betrayed, lied to and ignored by almost everyone I've ever met, my life is on the brink of disaster and I can't trust anyone. My therapist is about the only one who has respected my privacy. Over the last 4 years people have connived behind my back, painted me into corners, dug up my personal information and divulged it to each other and forced me to admit and air it in an open forum before everyone court room style in utter humiliating circumstances. Bottom line basically - my life is a pile of trash, I can't trust anyone, every encounter I have with someone leads to utter humiliation, my life is a pile of trash. That's it in a nutshell basically.

Stbguy stated quite clearly that he is referring to 10% of the population, "the weeds" as he put it, and that he thinks 90% of women are not like that. How is that sexist? Is it sexist to suggest anything negative about ANY women?


But he is totally right about the double standards. It is quite obvious that society does impose special rules on men that women are not subjected to. For example, would a woman EVER be called rude and disrespectful for striking up a conversation with a man she finds attractive? No. But as you can see men not only get labeled as rude but they are even physically attacked for it! This is the real sexism. This is what you should be up in arms about, not stbguy's comments.

I don't know any men who get attacked or called rude for approaching women. Men approach women all the time. Just because you saw two random strangers arguing doesn't mean you must make some universal conclusions about something you know nothing about

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am so very sorry you had a hard life. I have a lot of difficult things happened to me. I understand.

I think one suggestion might be to become more selective who you hang out with in real life or online. We had others on the forum saying that everyone they meet is being not a nice person. That makes me think people need to be more selective. Despite difficulties in life I find most people are very nice. Stay away from ones that aren't nice.

I am glad you have a therapist

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, been betrayed, lied to and ignored by almost everyone I've ever met, my life is on the brink of disaster and I can't trust anyone. My therapist is about the only one who has respected my privacy. Over the last 4 years people have connived behind my back, painted me into corners, dug up my personal information and divulged it to each other and forced me to admit and air it in an open forum before everyone court room style in utter humiliating circumstances. Bottom line basically - my life is a pile of trash, I can't trust anyone, every encounter I have with someone leads to utter humiliation, my life is a pile of trash. That's it in a nutshell basically.

I don't know any men who get attacked or called rude for approaching women. Men approach women all the time. Just because you saw two random strangers arguing doesn't mean you must make some universal conclusions about something you know nothing about

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where I'm from it was on the news just the other day where women were recording men on their phones "cat-calling" , complimenting, or making conversion with them in the streets AND THEY CALLED IT STREET HARASSMENT so, yes, this DOES exist. I'm not sure where this took place but it did in fact make the news on tv.

Where I'm from it was on the news just the other day where women were recording men on their phones "cat-calling" , complimenting, or making conversion with them in the streets AND THEY CALLED IT STREET HARASSMENT so, yes, this DOES exist. I'm not sure where this took place but it did in fact make the news on tv.

And that IS STREET HARASSMENT. It happens to me every single day, and it makes me not want to walk anywhere alone, constantly look over my shoulder, and duck into stores in order to escape from the unwanted harassment. Today, I went to the gym-- got cat called on my way there-- went to meet friends for lunch and got hit on at the restaurant, went home, had a shirtless male neighbor bang on my car window wanting to flirt with me, then I walked my dog and had 2 men in a car slow down to yell "hey gorgeous" at me, and it's only 3:20pm. I've also been assaulted by a stranger so perhaps I'm more sensitive than others, but this stuff is not okay. Unless you have been the victim of this harassment, you have no idea how awful this is. I can never just live my life and go where I want to go. I have to plan my life around protecting my safety.

But saying all that I don't feel angry about men whatsoever. I still like men I am not avoiding them

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am certainly not a man-hater. I am a lesbian, but I have a large circle of male friends. The guy friends I have do not cat-call, harass women, or act as though they are entitled to women's bodies/attention/etc. If they're interested in a woman, they ask her out on a date. Or, sometimes, they send me over to chat her up and see if she's single and might be interested in them! I have no problem playing cupid! When I'm interested in a woman, I approach it the same way. See if she's single and lesbian and, if so, I ask her on a date. Simple as that.


The only thing I don't like is the cat-calling, unwanted touching, yelling sexy comments out car windows, complimenting my appearance when you've never met me, men sitting down at my table when I'm on a date with a woman!, and men calling me a "*****" when I tell them I do not want to talk to them or am not interested in them. It makes ZERO difference how attractive or cool the guy is. I want none of it. I want to be treated like a person who has the right to her own boundaries. I don't "owe" men (or women) anything.

And that IS STREET HARASSMENT. It happens to me every single day, and it makes me not want to walk anywhere alone, constantly look over my shoulder, and duck into stores in order to escape from the unwanted harassment. Today, I went to the gym-- got cat called on my way there-- went to meet friends for lunch and got hit on at the restaurant, went home, had a shirtless male neighbor bang on my car window wanting to flirt with me, then I walked my dog and had 2 men in a car slow down to yell "hey gorgeous" at me, and it's only 3:20pm. I've also been assaulted by a stranger so perhaps I'm more sensitive than others, but this stuff is not okay. Unless you have been the victim of this harassment, you have no idea how awful this is. I can never just live my life and go where I want to go. I have to plan my life around protecting my safety.

I am sure that sucks. However, I am wondering if there might be some factor causing it in your situation? Maybe the area you live in? As you can see, I pay pretty close attention to interactions between men and women at the gym and other public places, and I can honestly say I RARELY see men approaching or even looking at attractive women. And when I do see men doing it, for some reason it tends to be the good looking young men, and the women tend to like it. Short buff guy at the gym was one of the few exceptions(he's average looking) and you can see how that went down. Most men have been socialized to believe they should be ashamed of their physical attraction to women and therefore they will never act on it. Most good looking men have been showered with sexual attention since their early teens, so they know they are doing women a favor by approaching them. And usually that is the case.

As a woman you also get the fear of "the guy is going to reject me because I was being assertive" as well.... society conditions us that women shouldn't be the assertive one.

I do think some (not most) men have issues with this, my lovely single male friend I wrote of earlier who reminds me a little of you does have that shame, yet I reassure him that it is normal and nothing to be ashamed of. I ask you Shadix, what can I say to him to help him feel easier about that?

But, now you get a shy guy, he approaches a woman and gets made to understand that he is harassing her. He is so embarrassed and ashamed of his actions he withdraws from ever trying that again. He mentally begins comparing himself with those males who cat call and things. The feminist hate speech you see on TV and other places only reinforces that.

The difference between women approaching men... and men approaching women.... is that statistically, the man is more likely to be capable of being a predator. Women actually do need to keep that in mind. Men don't. Of course, we all know that most abuse is committed by someone close to the victim... but it's still something that women are conditioned to pay attention to.

That's a very small percentage yes, but the potential disaster is MUCH worse than rejection and embarrassment.

When men approach or cat-call me, my reaction is based on a few things: the environment (how "safe" it is), the level of aggressiveness, and how the man is dressed. Whether or not the man is attractive has zero bearing on my response. It's how they're dressed - are they clean? The way someone presents themself is a lot more indicative of whether or not they're a safe person to interact with. My reactions to men really don't have anything to do with what they actually look like - fit, not-fit, tall, short, older, younger......

It sucks for shy, unconfident people of both genders. No one would say it doesn't. I can't approach guys either out of the fear of being rejected by them. And don't you dare say that it's easier for me due to being a woman - it's not. As a woman you also get the fear of "the guy is going to reject me because I was being assertive" as well.... society conditions us that women shouldn't be the assertive one.

Shadix - again... just because you don't see the cat-calling, doesn't mean it isn't happening. It frequently happens when the men who are doing the cat-calling..... well, they only do it when there's no other men around who aren't in on it. You can do all the observing in the world, but you only observe a certain type of woman and only in certain environments. And... it's not always loud and obvious. It can be subtle, and quiet.

I've lived in many different styles of environment - different cities and towns and whatnot. It's the same everywhere. The only time I noticed a heightened level of being harassed? Was when I was in Turkey, because it's a much more male-dominated and traditional area. Plus, I stuck out like no tomorrow and there's a stereotype there that single white women have travelled there for sex - so I was openly propositioned a LOT. But in all of the western countries I've lived or spent time in? It's equal. It increases when men are drunk, but that's a different scenario on its own.

The difference between women approaching men... and men approaching women.... is that statistically, the man is more likely to be capable of being a predator. Women actually do need to keep that in mind. Men don't. Of course, we all know that most abuse is committed by someone close to the victim... but it's still something that women are conditioned to pay attention to.