[truthnlove]

Due to life circumstances and upbringing, I've felt powerless and lacked self-esteem my whole life. Until recently, when therapy has started to change how I see myself. Unfortunately, I'm left with a lifetime of ways of communicating with other people that I need to unlearn.

One area that I'm currently struggling with is relating to children and animals. It may sound strange to lump them together like that, but the issue is the same. I've been working in my church's nursery for the last few months, with toddlers, and have noticed that I have the same issue with them that I have with my dachshund: they don't listen to me, but they do to others. I don't know how to communicate in an authoritative manner. I also have a very soft voice, which compounds the problem.

Any suggestions?

[Rose3]

Who is it that they're listening to?
When I've worked with children - I've found that it helps when calling a child by his/her name, and be friendly & positive towards them. Make eye contact. Be at their level, so sit in a lower chair (things like that).

[truthnlove]

Well, they listen to the other workers, parents, etc. more than to me if they are misbehaving. Tantrums, not sharing, etc. Same story with my dog. He's a barker, but I'm the only person in the house that when left alone with me, he will bark incessantly. I've tried sweet talking him. Playing with him. He'll stop in the middle of a game of tug-of-war to go on a barking spree. I've tried being firm - stern voice, swat on the rear end, putting him in his kennel - nothing works. He doesn't take me seriously.

Thoughts?

[healingme4me]

No real suggestions for the dashund, maybe disengaging? No eye contact? I've gotten so that my neighbor's dog pays me no mind, they pay my landlady mind, but not me. I'm better with cats and establishing with a kitten my preference for sitting nicely not play unless I initiate.

For kids, I do have my own, but have gentle persuasion in my toolbox for other kids. Distraction if sharing is a concern is one way. Distraction can also work with tantrums or meltdowns. They could be struggling with a multitude of issues, tired, hungry, overwhelmed, etc. The distraction coupled with a sense of one on one attention might be the solution. With eye contact.


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[divine1966]

Well I am a teacher. Over the course of my career I have met people who simply couldn't do it, they eventually just couldn't make it as teachers. They couldn't relate to kids or just couldn't build a rapport. Some people just aren't meant to work with kids. Why is it you are working in a nursery if working with kids isn't your natural talent? I wouldn't do well with toddlers either, I teach high school.

I don't know about dogs much



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[truthnlove]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Well I am a teacher. Over the course of my career I have met people who simply couldn't do it, they eventually just couldn't make it as teachers. They couldn't relate to kids or just couldn't build a rapport. Some people just aren't meant to work with kids. Why is it you are working in a nursery if working with kids isn't your natural talent? I wouldn't do well with toddlers either, I teach high school.

I don't know about dogs much

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Oh don't get me wrong! I love working with kids and have a great rapport with them - I just didn't have much experience with them prior to helping out in the nursery. It's a learning curve - that's all. I'm a softie with a soft voice and am often mistaken for much younger than I am, too.

[Bill3]

Have you tried googling something like "How to get people to listen to you"?

Also, would you be willing to say more about what you mean by being a "softie"?

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by truthnlove

Oh don't get me wrong! I love working with kids and have a great rapport with them - I just didn't have much experience with them prior to helping out in the nursery. It's a learning curve - that's all. I'm a softie with a soft voice and am often mistaken for much younger than I am, too.

Oh I see. That's different. We had teachers who were terrified of the kids and kids ate them alive. They never made it. But If you like working with kids but generally are soft spoken you might practice to project your voice a bit ( not yelling). Saying all that I wouldn't work in a nursery if my life depended on it. Sorry I don't have a good advice ( and I am a parent lol)

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[truthnlove]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Have you tried googling something like "How to get people to listen to you"?

Also, would you be willing to say more about what you mean by being a "softie"?

Lol, that's why I'm asking here!

As for being a softie, I just mean that I'm very sensitive and gentle, and have a difficult time being "firm." I'm afraid of being harsh, hurting the kids somehow, etc., and therefore tend to lean the opposite direction.

[Bill3]

Well PC is certainly a good resource and people often share their own experiences but we are not professionals. I believe that there are some professional writings online that could be of interest as well.

How much would you agree that firmness at times, when skillfully done, really is beneficial to kids?

[truthnlove]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Well PC is certainly a good resource and people often share their own experiences but we are not professionals. I believe that there are some professional writings online that could be of interest as well.

How much would you agree that firmness at times, when skillfully done, really is beneficial to kids?

Oh, believe me - I make liberal use of Google!

Well, I do believe that firmness is necessary at times. But, probably because I'm so sensitive, what I think of as "firm" isn't necessarily firm. I'm the kind of person who would say a parent was "yelling" at me, when they were speaking in a stern voice. If I have to give my dog a swat on the rear when he misbehaves, it doesn't phase him at all - probably because it doesn't hurt.

[Bill3]

But, probably because I'm so sensitive, what I think of as "firm" isn't necessarily firm.

Okay, that is interesting. You actually are trying to be firm but because you are overly sensitive you miss the mark. You have learned that what you viscerally sense to be "firm enough" really isn't firm enough. Yes?

[truthnlove]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Okay, that is interesting. You actually are trying to be firm but because you are overly sensitive you miss the mark. You have learned that what you viscerally sense to be "firm enough" really isn't firm enough. Yes?

Yep. Unfortunately, though, as a sensitive person I can sometimes overreact and go the other way. Which makes me afraid to be firm at all. Trying to find a balance is frustrating.

[Bill3]

You mentioned therapy. What does your therapist say about this problem?

[truthnlove]

Not a whole lot, actually. So much to talk about, that isn't at the top of the list. We did discuss a couple of things. Regarding the dog, I had wanted to have a professional trainer help me out, but due to some family issues, that isn't going to work out. So that's still unresolved. Someone suggested to me before that I try using a water squirt gun to get him to stop barking, but he actually likes it, lol. I can't bear the thought of actually hurting him by doing something like a rolled-up newspaper, etc. that would frighten him. As for the kids, the only thing I could come up with was to watch the other workers. Which I am doing, but am still having issues.

I don't know if you're familiar with Myers-Briggs at all, but I'm an INFP - a personality type that is classically deeply emotional and has problems with assertiveness. This carries over into my work environment too...dealing with angry/bully customers is extremely difficult for me. I do have the option of calling for a manager to back me up at work, which helps, but I would like to be able to move into a management type of position myself at some point. And carry enough weight of my own.

[Bill3]

I wonder what you would think of the concept of an anxiety ladder/fear ladder. Perhaps you know of it? The idea is to train yourself to overcome your fears through gradual exposure to them.

For you, this concept might mean something like the following. You identify (say) 10 reasonable, fear-related things that you would like to be able to do. Then you rank them from most scary to least scary. Then you start with the least scary. You start systematically bringing yourself to do what is the least scary. (If you find it impossible to do that, then identify something even less scary). You have a program to do it every day, or every other day, whatever seems best. If T does any CBT (s)he could help you with this. You gradually over come that first fear, and then move up the ladder to scarier tasks.

Another idea is to look very closely, step by step by step, at a few incidents, one at a time, in which you wanted to be more assertive but you were not. You identify the point at which it was too late to change the outcome, and you look for the instants before that time where you could have done something differently. What could you have done and what prevented you?

With all of these situations where you are not assertive enough, remember that it took a time for you to learn to be in assertive, and it will take time to be to learn to be assertive. Keep working on it regardless of what happened. If you fall short, look carefully at what went wrong, acknowledge that these things are happening now because of what your childhood was like, forgive yourself for any shortcomings you sense, give yourself credit for working on change, and then move on.

[truthnlove]

Thank you for the feedback, again. Much appreciated. I'm not actually fearful, per se, so exposure doesn't really help. I will work on examining my interactions with people more, though, to see what I could do differently. I do that a lot already, but I also tend to get impatient with myself for not learning these things faster. Perfectionist too, lol!

Also, I love your point that it took time for me to learn to not be assertive. That's quite true. I can actually be quite opinionated, but have learned not to express those opinions much. That's really helpful to think about it from that perspective.

[Bill3]

Thank you very much for your kind words. I was struck by your statement that you are not actually fearful. How did you learn not to express your opinions so much? How did you learn not to be assertive?

[truthnlove]

Well, I used to be very fearful. A couple years of therapy, and I'm so much freer.

Well, I'm naturally a sensitive, quiet person anyway. Put me around people with strong personalities that don't necessarily want to hear a different perspective, and even though I'm opinionated, I learned that the best way to keep the peace was to keep certain opinions to myself. Unlearning that now.

[Bill3]

Congratulations on your considerable progress in therapy!

It sounds like now you are able to express yourself to the nursery children and to your dog but you hold back for fear of going too far with them.

[divine1966]

I wonder if you might want to see some type of vocational counselor and figure out career path and perhaps go to school so you can have life long career in something that is naturally a good fit rather than trying to change yourself into somebody you aren't. Just my opinion. Perhaps you can start by talking to an advisor at a community college and maybe take some classes

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[truthnlove]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Congratulations on your considerable progress in therapy!

It sounds like now you are able to express yourself to the nursery children and to your dog but you hold back for fear of going too far with them.

Thank you.

Well, I try. The dog still does his own thing though. With the kids it's hit-and-miss, but it is getting better.

I tend to lose focus of the fact that things are getting better. And that it's a trial-and-error learning process. Which is probably all this boils down to. My therapist keeps trying to remind me, as I get frustrated with myself for not learning different things faster, "it's a process." I guess being more assertive is something that just happens gradually, as you learn how to respond in different situations. Need to let go of the perfectionism!

Thank you for taking the time to "listen" to my rants, by the way. I've been in a funk the last few days, but am pulling up out of it.

[Bill3]

Progress, not perfection!

You are making a great deal of progress. Keep up the great work! You are going to surprise yourself. Soon you'll be thinking "I can't believe I said/did that!"

You will get there. Keep working with your t. Marvel at yourself when you do well. Forgive yourself and carry on when you fall short.

You can do this! Because:



And: You're welcome!

[truthnlove]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Progress, not perfection!

You are making a great deal of progress. Keep up the great work! You are going to surprise yourself. Soon you'll be thinking "I can't believe I said/did that!"

You will get there. Keep working with your t. Marvel at yourself when you do well. Forgive yourself and carry on when you fall short.

You can do this! Because:



And: You're welcome!

Thank you again for the encouragement! Baby steps. One day at a time.

I'm sensitive also. Not assertive. Invisible.

I hear you....I have no answers for you, but I wanted to say that I understand.