Conflict-avoidant (existential) communication

Hi everyone,

I am a new and I am looking to get right down to the issue... My partner and I are both conflict-avoidants, so we really never had intimate communication in our "romantic" relationship. I am a people-pleaser and likely exhibiting co-dependent tendencies for my partner. I enable his desire to avoid social situations and emotional intimacy, even though I am the person who joined his social circles years ago (I live in his hometown, which is very far from mine).

Since our poor communication has become a problem with me over our seven (yes, I know) years together, and I have been doing my best to improve our emotional communication over the past year. He has voiced his interest in the same goal but he either does not act on it or voices that he "doesn't know how" and therefore cannot talk about feelings. I will mention that we tried couples therapy for over six months, but we were basically let go because of the "doesn't know how" excuse that the therapist could not continue tolerating. She told us our relationship sounded and looked painful.

I recently tried to bring up that "I don't know who I am, I don't know who you are..." because we do not talk emotionally. He immediately got fed up and said he doesn't understand people who want to "find themselves." For lack of better terminology, he thinks this line of existential questioning is bull-*****. He mentioned a handful of "happy" people he knows who he thinks cannot possibly consider such "deep" questions. Plus we are all just specks in the universe who won't matter when we die, so what does it matter? (His beliefs, not mine.)

All of your feedback is welcome, but my major inquiry is this: How do I get him to view my concerns objectively? And if I can't, how do I communicate our disconnect? I know I am codependent and always trying to protect him, so it's almost impossible for me to stand my ground when I initiate conversations without decided direction.

Thank you so much in advance for your help.

I don't know if there is much of anything that you can do if he is unwilling to put in any effort (which is what it sounds like to me, please stop me if I'm wrong). I think change is possible, but both parties must be willing to try. I can understand why your therapist let you both go as clients. I think the best thing you could do right now is to get yourself into individual counseling in order to work on your codependency. You can get tips to help your codependency online, but I honestly think that a therapist would help you the most.

I feel I understand this all to well..*sigh... I certainly don't have any answers for you atm.. but, I can very much relate with your struggle and frustration
~Scarlett♡☆(lost)

Are you far from your hometown? Could you go back ?

Thanks for your thoughts FeelingHopeful. I could go back home if I needed to distance myself, yes.

My current concerns are more about how to encourage mature communication so we can realize a shared reality between the two of us, and eventually the possible future of our relationship. But at this rate, I am faced with defensiveness and/or deflection, so given my codependent nature I'm not sure that my goal is attainable.

Thanks GoldenWaves, I agree with your counseling suggestion. I was in individual therapy before couples for about a year, but my therapist may have been a bad fit. She did help me challenge a few of my limiting beliefs so that was good. I think I'll try to start with someone new though.

You can't encourage someone who is NOT INTERESTED & doesn't want to communicate.

Lol the most meaningful conversation I had in 33 years was when he was trapped in MY truck driving across country to MY new farm. That meaningful conversation was enough for me to know that I wasn't going to waste any more years in a marriage with him tolerating his inability to emotionally connect or communicate. Gave him 2 weeks at my farm before kicking him back to where our home was.

There are some relationships that are just incompatible & there is just no way of making them into anything else when needs & wants are different

My hubby and I have those talks but only organically. As in, I can't force it. Either the mood strikes, or he just sits there and listens to me prattle on until I shut up. Awkward. Come to think of it, 'listen' might be too generous a term. But he definitely sits there. Bless that man's heart.

Intimacy is H.A.R.D. Have you ever had it with your DH? Once there, there is potential. Never there, then it might be much harder to achieve.

One thing I learned about my man early on is that he responds to logic, facts, concrete tangible subjects. Science. Directness. When I start discussing emotions, he gets that 1000 mile stare. It's just who he is. I figure it's the equivalent of me asking him to choose a shade of yellow for painting a room. To me, I see lemon, butter, sunshine, rich yellow, soothing, warm, green tints... He sees yellow. And then wonders what all the fuss is about. But he knows it is important to me, because I explain the stakes quickly. So he tries. Then ends up just going with whichever I want, just to placate me.

In other words, we think differently. We percieve our lives differently. Our purpose. What is important. Even if what he says makes no sense to me, I try and see it from his perspective and bam, you're communicating.

If you need something more, then be direct and assured. Tell him what you need. Then try to accept what he can give, even if it's not at all what you had in mind. If he is always wrong, then he'll stop trying. I'm not saying that's how you make him feel, but it's frighteningly easy to do. Example, I tell my DH that I need more physical contact in passing. A kiss here, his hand in mine there. Whatever. Then he sneaks in a kiss while I'm busy and I grouch at him. Why? because he didn't kiss me when I wanted him to? Talk about mixed messages. The poor guy can't win. And I'm not even realizing that I'm all push/pull with him. Does that make sense? When he needs me to be precise with telling him what I need, then our wires get all crossed. And we make the problem worse.

So could your DH be doing things to try and please you? Even if you're missing it? If he is, then recognize it, build him up, praise him and give him a cookie. - Sorry, couldn't help the joke. I just realized how much I sound like I'm trying to train a puppy. And that's terrible. - Unless he really likes cookies. Seriously, I'm not advocating treating anyone like a dog. Just a bit of levity. My husband is a lot nicer when I make him cookies though... okay, I'll stop.

My point is that sometimes we only look for what we want in others. We have these expectations for our spouses and when they can't reach them, we get frustrated and don't see the fact that they are trying. To me, if he even tries to talk about this stuff with you, that's a win. If not, maybe you can just tell him that's all you need. For him to try. If he's willing to try, it says a lot about how he feels.

Like your existential dilemma. You clearly saw things differently. But he talked to you, told you his thoughts. That's communication in its truest form.

I left my hometown for my hubby's too, and it does get lonely. We lean on each other a lot lot more for social outlets. That makes it tough. You're living with him in a vacuum. Do you have some activities you like to do? Something healthy? I 'found myself ' by expanding my interests till I found what I love to do. My husband joins me sometimes and I join him with his favorite activities once in a while too. Not so much to smother. Just enough to know what he's talking about when he gets exciting and starts using jargon. Enough to make good memories together and meet people too. Later, you realize that you got closer together without even trying. Intimacy just happens then. It doesn't need to be confrontational. It's about acceptance.

I guess I'm sort of shocked that people would marry someone that they've never been emotionally intimate with. I know, I know, different strokes for different folks.....

If one grew up in a family of origin where there was little emotional intimacy, then often one subconsciously thinks that it is normal not to have intimacy in romantic relationships and one does not seek it out.

If one was was actually hurt/abused by a close family member, one often fears and actively avoids intimacy.

Thus people from such families of origin often feel violated and/or anxious and/or avoidant when faced with actual intimacy. To them, intimacy often feels frightening and suffocating.

Thank you for sharing your experience, PandorasAquarium. I really do see where you're coming from and it is an oh-so-important angle. There have been moments of the type of mixed-message dissonance you've described in our relationship too, some probably are still lurking due to neither of us speaking up.

I think there are definitely a few differences in our experiences too. For instance, my relationship has never had emotional intimacy. Both my partner and I have historically been the logic/reasoning/facts type, similar to your husband. I think Bill3 brings up a very important feature of family of origin-- this describes my relationship EXACTLY.

Despite that we were both comfortable with avoidance from the start, I have come to realize that this way of relating does not serve me and it does not allow me to be an authentic person. So my needs for emotional intimacy have definitely evolved. I was fearful of sharing this change for a while because of our default mode of relating, but eventually the everyday pain outgrew the instantaneous pain it took to open up to my partner. The trouble is that he says he wants to engage emotionally but given a lot of time and support he has not acted on it. Even in baby steps (as broken down by the therapist or by simply initiating any conversation that is not practical or work-related). This hurts me because he is aware this is important to me but still does not try-- whether is incapable or disinterested, I don't know. I have told him this too, which commonly is met with the, "I don't know how to try." So then we come up with a couple of ideas, and I am still caught by surprise when they don't materialize.

Since I am the sole person bringing up feelings and my desire for emotional communication, I am the one who tends to stop trying because I am typically met with defensiveness. I use "I" statements, I ask open-ended questions, I do not raise my voice or condescend, and I am constantly voicing my deficiencies and areas that I want to improve; I openly admit that I might misunderstand and ask to be corrected. When he gets defensive I apologize and try to soften the conversation by saying I understand why he might feel whatever way, but my goal was just to understand him better and/or model what I would like him to do for me.

For example, I have absolutely no idea what his expectations for a relationship are. Hell, I probably don't even know mine. But when I asked him if there were any relationships he wanted to model his romantic relationship after when he was growing up (like his parents or his grandparents or some couple from a TV show/movie, etc) or even relationships that he saw as happy in recent years, he tried to deflect the conversation, asking something like "people talk about stuff like this!?" So I calmly described that it was important to me because I can't mind read and that if we have different relational ideals I would want us to communicate them so that we can strive to work towards the ideals or a combination of our ideals together. Then when he seemed more receptive because he knew I was not attacking him, I asked about two specific relationships and about why he thought they were something he would want or not. After answering those questions as simply as possible he tuned out. I was just barely able to talk about the "whys" so I could understand his point of view. He didn't ask me about my ideals and we never got to point of comparison, and we definitely did not talk about how either of us could improve in our relationship.

I'm not sure if that helps illustrate a conversation that takes me weeks to muster up the courage for, that in any other context (with friends, family, even his family) would be met with curiosity and interest in participating. I guess he did tolerate answering part of the question eventually. But the initial disconnect/deflection/defensiveness every time derails any real progress, and I suppose this is the "disconnect" I would like to do away with. I am looking for growth and he is looking to maintain. I would like to establish a shared reality where we can just talk about feelings or concepts and be curious about one another without feeling judged or defensive.

I am aware that some people just do not do that type of communication... but maybe there is a better way to facilitate it from someone who claims they would "do anything" to keep our relationship??

Sorry for the novel-- and thanks again for your perspective.