Basically, my question is: how do you deal with negative people who sabotage your life's passions? I have several life passions that I have not been able to get involved with in my city, due to some very mean people. Three of them are women and there is one man -- these could be villains in a Shakespeare tragedy: Reagan (King Lear), Lady MacBeth (MacBeth), Timora (Titus Andronicus) and Richard III (Richard III). Look them up to get an idea of their character traits.

They're nasty people, like the people I previously knew who have continued to slight me to their friends, thus undermining my efforts to re-engage in three creative areas that are my life's passions, and it's made me miserable. I could use advice.

Obviously, I live by the motto "your past does not define you," but that doesn't apply to the people in my past, who continue to define me in their own distorted terms, without telling me what those terms even ARE. As Dorothy Parker, an American writer once quipped, "what other people think of me, is none of my business."

But in this case, I really want to confront these four a-holes who have ruined my reputation with complete strangers, who won't even give me the time of day now as a result. And yes, that says something about those people's character traits but if they are the gate keepers, and they hate me based on what their friends say, how do I get around that? How do I disprove the people who for whatever reason don't like me? I'm really frustrated because it's really unfair. I deserve to be happy and indulge in my life's passions regardless of what those four people think of me.

I have never been good at shutting bad actors down (I can think of situations where I tried and was ineffective) so I avoid/don't get involved with people like this. If people like that control your city, it sounds like a miserable city. Ever thought about moving?

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

I have never been good at shutting bad actors down (I can think of situations where I tried and was ineffective) so I avoid/don't get involved with people like this. If people like that control your city, it sounds like a miserable city. Ever thought about moving?

Well, if I move (and I can't afford to, financially), then I'm letting them win. I'd have to constantly move if I let jerks prevent me from indulging in hobbies that I am passionate about and have a right to participate in. I'm just frustrated that they continue to bad-mouth me and undermine my efforts to get involved in my hobbies again, because of their power and influence in those three different "communities," with other people who don't even know me.

I have never felt like I have had any influence by myself but in work situations, I can think of a few times where I found like minded coworkers. We got together and made a difference (improved a few things and just made the work atmosphere more positive). Another time, I was able to leave a position I did not like because I found another person who outranked my boss and liked me. He was able to get me to be assigned to him. I can also think of times when I stood up for someone and they did not take advantage of the opportunity. They were like--it's OK all these people are treating me this way. Yet, in two situations, I thought they were being treated like crap but they didn't. I didn't get it and moved on and did my own thing. So maybe quietly look for someone who is willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with you? (Then brainstorm, get on the same page, etc.)

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

I have never felt like I have had any influence by myself but in work situations, I can think of a few times where I found like minded coworkers. We got together and made a difference (improved a few things and just made the work atmosphere more positive). Another time, I was able to leave a position I did not like because I found another person who outranked my boss and liked me. He was able to get me to be assigned to him. I can also think of times when I stood up for someone and they did not take advantage of the opportunity. They were like--it's OK all these people are treating me this way. Yet, in two situations, I thought they were being treated like crap but they didn't. I didn't get it and moved on and did my own thing. So maybe quietly look for someone who is willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with you? (Then brainstorm, get on the same page, etc.)

If I had 'contacts' in those three communities who I still was friends with, I would definitely confide in them to find out how to get active again and come up with a plan of action, to help me deal with those negative people. Unfortunately, I don't trust anyone anymore in those three communities who could be my ally. That's what I need, an ally. So, how do I do this without any allies to help me??

This is my last shot at this--then out of ideas. Are they breaking any discrimation laws? If they are, perhaps there is an organization who could help you.

[Quarter life]

I would much rather be Happy & Free than Right.

Cielpur, scrape these toxic people off, and start building a supportive network of genuine friends. Friends who encourage your endeavours, and refrain from engaging in 'Chinese Whispers'.

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

This is my last shot at this--then out of ideas. Are they breaking any discrimation laws? If they are, perhaps there is an organization who could help you.

Discrimination laws? They're just verbally slandering me to people in positions of power. I could look into that but not sure how I'd prove it. I appreciate your input today. I think if I had allies, I wouldn't be in this social predicament.

Originally Posted by Quarter life

I would much rather be Happy & Free than Right.

Cielpur, scrape these toxic people off, and start building a supportive network of genuine friends.

But HOW? That is the dilemma I'm in. I want to get involved in these three creative communities again, but well-established people whom I've known for a long time (when I was active in these communities ten years ago) have literally destroyed my reputation with strangers who are people I'd need to connect with, to get involved again.

How do I re-enter these communities without any allies, without any 'protection' other than my own belief that I have value and worth, despite what these four jerks have said about me to others and would continue to say, once I get involved in those communities again.

Clearly, some people have dealt with this situation and overcome the hurdles that come with dealing with difficult people who want nothing more than to undermine the progress and happiness of people they dislike.

I'm fed up and feel powerless. These people are no better than me. They are not more special, not more talented. I have never said anything negative about them, or treated them wrongly in any way. I have no idea why they dislike me either, but they do.

[Grandessa]

I'm not sure about the people you refer to. I believe that ownership of our own sense of personal power carries a lot of weight. Maybe just show up, shrug off the naysayers and dig deeply into your hobbies. With this plan, I have seen a lot of negative people fold like a cheap suit. There is no better attestation to your power and sense of righteousness, and that is why the more shallow people back off. You'll need a thick skin though��

Originally Posted by Grandessa

I'm not sure about the people you refer to. I believe that ownership of our own sense of personal power carries a lot of weight. Maybe just show up, shrug off the naysayers and dig deeply into your hobbies. With this plan, I have seen a lot of negative people fold like a cheap suit. There is no better attestation to your power and sense of righteousness, and that is why the more shallow people back off. You'll need a thick skin though��

Ah, the thick skin. I would like to think I have one, but if I did, I wouldn't have posted here about this issue. So, once I re-enter these communities and the gossip starts to fly, (and it will b/c these people live for gossip, it's how they secure their social status with others), I just ignore the gossip about me (esp. from those third parties who will relay the gossip to me, as has happened to me before with other people). What if someone confronts me about my past connection with these people? What do I say? Do I say 'none of your business,' or 'why do you ask?'

Originally Posted by cielpur

Discrimination laws? They're just verbally slandering me to people in positions of power. I could look into that but not sure how I'd prove it. I appreciate your input today. I think if I had allies, I wouldn't be in this social predicament.

One last idea, if you can prove they told a lie and that is cost you business ($), you might be able to take them to small claims court (it is very affordable, you can sue for people for smaller amounts of $).

[Quarter life]

You have a dilemma with few long term solutions. The thing is that even if you have several allies that advocate for you, there will still be others with mob mentality who choose to believe the worst of you. I would hate to see you strive for acceptance only to be shot down by those who would prefer to see you fail. What you are hoping for is that these people who have undermined you do a complete turn around and admit that they were in the wrong....I promise you that this will never happen. Most peoples shame will prevent this...no one wants to admit that they were wrong.

As mentioned before , a permanent long term solution would be to leave. I know this sounds drastic and would take planning, will and tenacity of purpose....But starting fresh certainly has its benefits. I changed my name and career then moved to a different state to escape others perception of me...best choice I ever made.

I wrote a thread some time ago about making difficult choices, I hope it will assist you in deciding how to move forward.https://forums.psychcentral.com/step...0-choices.html

Please be kind to yourself cielpur...you will be amazed at what you can achieve.

Originally Posted by Quarter life

You have a dilemma with few long term solutions. The thing is that even if you have several allies that advocate for you, there will still be others with mob mentality who choose to believe the worst of you. I would hate to see you strive for acceptance only to be shot down by those who would prefer to see you fail. What you are hoping for is that these people who have undermined you do a complete turn around and admit that they were in the wrong....I promise you that this will never happen. Most peoples shame will prevent this...no one wants to admit that they were wrong.

As mentioned before , a permanent long term solution would be to leave. I know this sounds drastic and would take planning, will and tenacity of purpose....But starting fresh certainly has its benefits. I changed my name and career then moved to a different state to escape others perception of me...best choice I ever made.

I wrote a thread some time ago about making difficult choices, I hope it will assist you in deciding how to move forward.https://forums.psychcentral.com/step...0-choices.html

Please be kind to yourself cielpur...you will be amazed at what you can achieve.

Thank you for your kind words QL. I will read your thread and come up with a financially realistic plan for myself. I just hate the thought of letting these a-holes run me out of town because they refuse to be decent towards me (which you are correct, they will never be). They do have that mob mentality and their own personal shames (whatever those are) prevent them from taking ownership of their horrible behavior. They just aren't capable.

I was involved with a creative group of people years ago and was successful. Well, one of the members didn't like it when people didn't shower them with adoration (which I refused to do). So, while I was in the hospital recovering from a terrible accident, this person spread vicious rumors about me to the entire group, most of whom believed this person. I only found out about what this person said, when a couple of the group members shared with me out of guilt (their words, not mine) what this person said about me. It worked to some extent. When I returned after my recovery, I was totally isolated socially and my participation in this group was diminished due to this person's social prowess (or manipulation of other weak personalities, if you look at it that way as I do). People who once liked me, considered me a good person and their friend, now pretended I didn't exist. I couldn't believe it. This person is still active and still has their "fans," or followers, and anyone who doesn't kiss this person's behind, is blackballed, so to speak. It's ridiculous.

If I were to move, there's no guarantee I wouldn't be confronted with the same kind of toxic personalities or emotional vampires as I like to call them, in a new town. Why should I cower? I have no allies left as I've been out of these communities for too long, but old resentments still exist (apparently) and I posted because I have anxiety about how to deal with these toxic people whom I know will try to 'take me down' no matter how much I ignore their attempts to do so. They will sabotage my participation in these communities to a certain extent, because that's the kind of people they are.

If I could move to another country I would, for a fresh start. But I can't. That is just not financially possible for me right now.

[RainyDay107]

I simply do not allow it. I have been a victim and I wizened up. I cleared toxic people (only one, truly) out of my life. I have strong boundaries and I am protected.

OP, I wish you the best. If you geographically relocate, keep your wits about you. There will be toxic people...but you can learn to spot them once you're familiar. I think you're familiar. I have learned, too. Take care.

Originally Posted by glamslam

I simply do not allow it. I have been a victim and I wizened up. I cleared toxic people (only one, truly) out of my life. I have strong boundaries and I am protected.

OP, I wish you the best. If you geographically relocate, keep your wits about you. There will be toxic people...but you can learn to spot them once you're familiar. I think you're familiar. I have learned, too. Take care.

Oh, I've wised-up about these people and want nothing to do with them anymore. However, my anxiety stems around the fact that any new people I meet who also know these same people, will likely base their opinion of me on what these awful people say to them about me. Isn't that how it always goes?

I can't geographically move. Plus, like the saying goes, "wherever you go there you are." You take your issues and problems with you, wherever you travel to. So, even if I had the funds to move, I'd still face the same issue: how do you deal with toxic people whose goal in life is to try to ruin yours (life, that is).

I'm determined to try to re-enter the creative circles that reflect my passions again, this summer. But I know that these people will try to undermine my every move by disparaging me to everyone new whom I come into contact with.

[DaisyBlossom]

Hi. I have not had experience in your field, but I've had experience in thr padgeant business and I have bred and showed my prize winning Persian cars for many years. People are mean in these kinds of circles......they just are. I've cried many times when I was younger about their meanness, and eventually had to realize that there are somethings we just have no control over. My advice is to maintain your ethics, don't stoop to their levels, always be nice.....I know it's hard sometimes......but eventually they give up. They accept you and even respect you.......but it can take years. I luckily had a full time job that saw me through. Respect to you and good luck

[s4ndm4n2006]

Without information on how specifically these people have affected your ability to follow your passions it's quite difficult to say what you can do about it. About the only takeaway I get from what you've said is that they've given you a bad reputation with complete strangers? First if they were complete strangers, they shouldn't matter. I'm not sure how these strangers are in some way an influence to your being able to fulfill your passions so I can't quite comment on that but.. I can say that if the people involved in bad mouthing you are in circles that are influential to your pursuits then, you need to find a new group to work with. Doubtful you can do much of anything to people that are intent on making things difficult for you. Question arises, do you even need to be in contact with these people that are having a bad effect on other people in your life?

You can change them, you can only change what you're doing. Change social circles and keep that private from people that cause trouble.

Don't let others, no matter who they are, influence whether you pursue your dreams and goals, ever.

I like what Sandman said. I have something to add. You can try going back to said social circles w a different attitude. if people are bad mouthing you, and that's not who you are, your actions and behaviors will will speak for yourself. Give people, like strangers, for instance, more credit. Maybe they AREN'T talking about you or even caring what other people say. Are you sure they dislike you? If so, why? What if you decided to repair your relationships with them? We all make mistakes and have a past. Another thing you can do is find a different circle of people who you feel comfortable around.

What do you think about advocating for self? What I mean is confronting them. Also, is there some person above them that can take charge of this situation on your behalf?

Originally Posted by DaisyBlossom

Hi. I have not had experience in your field, but I've had experience in thr padgeant business and I have bred and showed my prize winning Persian cars for many years. People are mean in these kinds of circles......they just are. I've cried many times when I was younger about their meanness, and eventually had to realize that there are somethings we just have no control over. My advice is to maintain your ethics, don't stoop to their levels, always be nice.....I know it's hard sometimes......but eventually they give up. They accept you and even respect you.......but it can take years. I luckily had a full time job that saw me through. Respect to you and good luck

Thanks for sharing your experience here Daisy. I've experienced the same kind of meanness in all three of my creative circles -- but one in particular has left a lot of emotional scars due to the cruelty, the betrayal, and the disrespect. I always maintain my ethics, and I don't stoop to their levels, and am always respectful. But that had little effect on their behavior. These people I've run into over the past ten years and they haven't changed; they still don't respect me.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

Without information on how specifically these people have affected your ability to follow your passions it's quite difficult to say what you can do about it. About the only takeaway I get from what you've said is that they've given you a bad reputation with complete strangers? First if they were complete strangers, they shouldn't matter. I'm not sure how these strangers are in some way an influence to your being able to fulfill your passions so I can't quite comment on that but.. I can say that if the people involved in bad mouthing you are in circles that are influential to your pursuits then, you need to find a new group to work with. Doubtful you can do much of anything to people that are intent on making things difficult for you. Question arises, do you even need to be in contact with these people that are having a bad effect on other people in your life?

You can change them, you can only change what you're doing. Change social circles and keep that private from people that cause trouble.

Don't let others, no matter who they are, influence whether you pursue your dreams and goals, ever.

Sandman -- well, it has been my experience as a member in social circles to see how heavily influenced by the leader or their "squad" some people are. In fact, I left a rather large social group of people after I witnessed a lot of gossip and backstabbing about me initiated by the "leader" who then delegated to her "squad" who to spread the rumors too, and what to say.

Think of that episode of the Big Bang Theory, where Sheldon and his girlfriend Amy Farrah Fowler do a social experiment with their friends; when Amy tells Penny that Amy is pregnant, etc. and she and Sheldon are amused by how fast Penny spreads their gossip "meme" to Leonard and Howard and Raj and Bernadette. I've witnessed that happen and I've also been a target of malicious gossip, that has spread to others in the creative circles I once belonged to, whose treatment of me CHANGED once the rumors about me spread. So, yes, strangers can be easily influenced by their friends as to what to believe about someone they barely know. It happens all the time.

I don't want to change these people -- that's not my goal and that's not even possible. You can't change someone's mind about your character, no matter what you do. They believe what they want to believe, and act accordingly based on what their beliefs and values are.

And I don't want to provide specific examples of what some of these people have done to me, because I need to remain anonymous.

To your quote about not letting other people influence whether or not I pursue my dreams and goals. Well, its a nice sentiment, but it's not reality when those same people have major influence over others' decisions, within each of these creative groups. They can easily blackball others from progressing forward. That is not something easy to navigate around.

Originally Posted by starrysky

I like what Sandman said. I have something to add. You can try going back to said social circles w a different attitude. if people are bad mouthing you, and that's not who you are, your actions and behaviors will will speak for yourself. Give people, like strangers, for instance, more credit. Maybe they AREN'T talking about you or even caring what other people say. Are you sure they dislike you? If so, why? What if you decided to repair your relationships with them? We all make mistakes and have a past. Another thing you can do is find a different circle of people who you feel comfortable around.

I have no desire to repair my relationship with these malicious people. The things they've done to me, said about me; how they betrayed my trust and respect for them based on what they've done is unforgivable. Their actions weren't mistakes, as what they did had ill-intention behind it. I don't need to change my attitude. My attitude isn't the problem. I never did anything mean to these individuals during my time within these creative groups. I was always inclusive, respectful, and supportive despite knowing what they did and why they did it. So, my attitude is fine.

It's one thing to ignore what's being said about me behind my back, which I have no problem with. What other people think of me is none of my business. However, it also is my business because if it prevents me from reaching my goals, I need to seek out support from others within these groups, who may or may not be influenced by these same jerks. But that is something I anticipate will be difficult for me, based on what I know about these people and what they do to manipulate others.

I know it would make more sense if I provided concrete examples for those of you who've taken time to respond to my thread. But I am not comfortable doing that. Knowing that these people have spread untrue rumors about me to gain attention for themselves with others and betrayed my trust; that they chose the low road instead of the high road if they had issues with me, by not directly talking to me about their issues, isn't my responsibility to take on. If you have a problem with me, come talk to me about it otherwise talking about me behind my back is counter productive.

I just feel so frustrated. It's ridiculous.

[Open Eyes]

It can be a big challenge when coming across a toxic "group" like you are describing. Unfortunately, people will go along with "shunning" because they are getting something "they" want by being on the good side of the "bully" or toxic individual that is making it a point to convince others to decide to "unfriend" someone and shun them. Sadly, this happens a lot in different workplaces and "groups" of people.

I worked as a temp for a couple of years and what was nice about doing that is that I got to observe different work environments and the way the people in these environments developed their social groups. It gave me a chance to be a fly on the wall because I was only a "temp" and that meant I was not considered a threat, and often I was invisible.

It sounds like the "threat" you presented was because you were gaining friends and a certain individual was threatened by that. That is why so much effort was put into creating "doubt" about you and gossip that doesn't reflect the truth about you. This can happen anywhere and in any group.

In my lifetime, I have watched some very "toxic" people collect a following. It NEVER ceases to amaze me. I don't really care to get too devoted to a group for that reason because I am not willing to "hurt and shun". It can be very challenging to learn how to "play nice" in the sandbox. If someone is working on getting others to think badly of you and you know they are lying and manipulating, it's important to learn how to develop your own skills of having "your" direction and staying "your" course of being pleasant in spite of. If a person is successful at convincing others of "lies" then what that really means is these "others" are simply not worth your time and investment. The only thing you can do is be "you" and be nice as a person and commit to striving in whatever your passion is understanding how "yes" you will come across others that may be threatened by you and take part in toxic behaviors to remove their sense of threat.

These behavior patterns are part of the human condition, you will never be able to "remove" this behavior in human circles. All you can do is learn about this reality and adjust yourself towards recognizing it and developing your own way of learning how to distance from how these behaviors are intended to hurt because of how someone feels "threatened".

When a person practices these toxic behaviors, often this is resulting from something in that person's past they are compensating for. Actually? This site alone is "full" of all kinds of personal histories that different individuals experience that "hurt" them. One time I visited the forum for NPD and read a thread called "how bad was it?". What I read in that thread was SAD. I read different stories about childhood emotional neglect and abuse. So, a lot of times the toxic behaviors you come across in others is often due to how an individual is compensating for something that person did not get in their childhood. Often the desire to "shun" comes more from how a person wants to rid themselves of a reminder of something that "hurt" them. Yet, this can be on such a deep subconscious level that this person isn't really completely "aware", they just want this threat "gone". This is one of the reasons behind, "narcissists don't know they are narcissists".

Ask yourself this question, "what do all children want?", answer, attention and praise. This is what "narcissistic feed is all about".
We all desire a degree of narcissistic feed.

[Open Eyes]

cielpur, I just happened to see this article that explains what I was trying to tell you in my post. It's a good article to keep so you can identify the signs and distance, yet understand why you are experiencing the gossip and shunning. I think one of the cues in the article is how individuals can be loyal because of how the "toxic" individual/group creates a form of dependency.
https://blogs.psychcentral.com/narci...-cult-leaders/

Cult members are on an endless treadmill of “becoming.” Only the cult leader is considered perfect. All other members must strive to emulate the leader. Most cults are set up so that members can never achieve this perfection, which keeps them dependent.

[Open Eyes]

An “Us vs. Them” attitude prevails. Outsiders are viewed as dangerous or enemies. This turns members’ focus outward, reducing the chances they will spot problems within the cult. In addition, viewing others as enemies is used to justify extreme actions because of the “dangers” outsiders pose.

One would think that followers would see the toxic patterns they allow themselves to participate in. But, they can be so brainwashed and dependent they genuinely don't see how they are allowing themselves to practice the very same bad behaviors they claim to abhor.

[s4ndm4n2006]

To your quote about not letting other people influence whether or not I pursue my dreams and goals. Well, its a nice sentiment, but it's not reality when those same people have major influence over others' decisions, within each of these creative groups. They can easily blackball others from progressing forward. That is not something easy to navigate around.

Whether this is a reality or not really just depends on your determination to get out of the environment where you're clearly oppressed in some form. It really comes down to that. It may not be something easy to do, and I didn't mean to imply that it is, if that was your impression but it is really just what needs to happen. If you're in an environment where you have no control of changing it or the parts of it (the people involved) the only options you have are to accept it is what it is and remain oppressed or move on and find a better environment. Again, easier said than done but I do believe I am speaking the truth here and ultimately what is reality.

How badly do you want to pursue your passions? What are you willing to sacrifice and do? You can only remain a victim in a situation where you can't or won't get out of.